Shotgun help

[jokester]

My buddy has an 870 Wingmaster .410 that is in very good condition. I'm trying to talk him into selling it to me, but dont' really know a far price to propose. I've checked gunbroker and some other sites, but they're pricing varies with age, condition, etc.

I'm not sure how old this gun is, but i'd say it's pre 1970's, and like i've mentioned, it's in great shape. He's taken care of it well. I've got the Serial Number...would that help me in my quest?

Also, have a quick question...I keep seeing the number 4991 popping up in relation to this gun. What exactly is this referring to?

Any help is appreciated

-jokester

[baltz526]

date code is on the left side of the barrel normaly two letters. serial number is of little value in dating. blue book lists it in 95% condition as $486 98% condition $586 fixed choke vent rib guns. no rib guns basicly $250 less. give an exact discription and i can try looking it up better

[MarlinMark]

I'm not trying to start anything by this question in any way. That's my disclaimer because somebody will reply to my reply all upset. Why do you want a .410? I would think twice about it. Unless it's a pest gun ie. snakes and rabbits up close I would think twice about it. The .410 is not that leathal on game birds etc.

Mark

[jokester]

Originally Posted by baltz526

date code is on the left side of the barrel normaly two letters. serial number is of little value in dating. blue book lists it in 95% condition as $486 98% condition $586 fixed choke vent rib guns. no rib guns basicly $250 less. give an exact discription and i can try looking it up better

probably 92%-95%
25 or 26" barrel
vent rib
fixed mod choke
Not sure what the date code is...have to look that one up

I'm not trying to start anything by this question in any way. That's my disclaimer because somebody will reply to my reply all upset. Why do you want a .410? I would think twice about it. Unless it's a pest gun ie. snakes and rabbits up close I would think twice about it. The .410 is not that leathal on game birds etc.

Mark

Mark, Just beacuse you would think twice about it, doesn't mean that everyone should. One man's trash as they say...

I'm planning ahead...that's why i'm looking at getting it. 870 Wingmaster .410 will make a good little starter gun for my kid one of these days, and it'll give me something to do in the mean time.

Besides...can you EVER really have TOO MANY guns? :grin:

-jokester

[Headhunter]

Originally Posted by jokester

I'm planning ahead...that's why i'm looking at getting it. 870 Wingmaster .410 will make a good little starter gun for my kid one of these days, jokester

Aaron...how was the honeymoon two months ago.....:grin:

[steelheadslayer]

Aaron, care to share some NEWS with us?????????

Man, I knew you were a shell conservationist but evidently that didn't apply to upstream spawners.................................:bigshock :

[Swamp Puppy]

Originally Posted by MarlinMark

I'm not trying to start anything by this question in any way. That's my disclaimer because somebody will reply to my reply all upset. Why do you want a .410? I would think twice about it. Unless it's a pest gun ie. snakes and rabbits up close I would think twice about it. The .410 is not that leathal on game birds etc.

Mark

Mark, you could not be more wrong. my first gun was a .410 single shot that i used for 2 seasons as a dove/quail/rabbit (big jackrabbits..not these puny cottontails you have out here) gun in arizona. i killed plenty of birds/rabbits with it at yardages out to 40 or more.

it may not be an OPTIMAL gun for game bird hunting, but it makes a fine little shooter for a young hunter and is a capable gun for birds.

[jokester]

Dang...you guys are jumpy. I didn't say I was having kids TOMORROW :grin: SOMEDAY fellas...SOMEDAY!!!

No plans in the works yet.

-jokester

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by jokester

I didn't say I was having kids TOMORROW :grin: SOMEDAY fellas...SOMEDAY!!!
No plans in the works yet.
-jokester

what ya shooting blanks...LOL

[Swamp Puppy]

not blanks...just small shells.

[Quack Attack]

I can't help you with cost anymore than has been mentioned, but the 4991 code is an ordering code that Remington uses. Every gun they make has one, actually it is usually a 5 or 6 digit code on the box, but the wholesalers only use the last four digits. Basically, if it's coming up on searches it means that it is still a current model (which this one is).

BTW, those are nice guns. I'd like to have a .410 to shoot pheasants and grouse with. That model is one of very few I would choose.

Growing up there was an old cowboy down the street that shot a single shot .410 and he killed as many birds with it as anybody I have ever seen with a 12 ga.

[Headhunter]

Originally Posted by jokester

jumpy. I didn't say I was having kids TOMORROW :grin: SOMEDAY fellas...SOMEDAY!!! No plans in the works yet. -jokester

I think he likes the practice.....

[billc_sbio]

Well actually (and I'm speaking from experience here) IF you could find the exact same gun in 28 ga. you'd be a lot better off.

The .410 is only effective at really CLOSE ranges. There's so little shot in the shell that most of them are choked very tight to make sure what shot there is will all hit within a very small circle. This makes it tough for all but the very best shooters to be very effective with this small shell.

Once upon a time .410 shells were pretty common and easy to find (and relatively inexpensive too).

But times have changed and now they're not so readily available and they're definitely not "cheap" anymore!

You can find 28 ga. shells almost as easily (or order them) and those are actually easier to reload than .410s. (This is where you'll really realize a big savings in the cost of reloading small shells as neither shell holds much in the way of raw materials; powder and shot)

To really be able to shoot LOTS of shells through the small gauge guns reloading's almost a requirement.

[Flat Lander]

That .410 would be a great gun for your collection and to train a kid with. I know some people hunt with them but I do not use mine anymore. I was passing up too many shots because of its limits. I hate passing up shots so I just use my 12 gauge for all of my shotgun needs.

[billc_sbio]

Hey Aaron,

Get together w/me sometime and I'll let you shoot my 28 ga.

You'll SEE what I mean. (I can let you try a .410, right alongside, for contrast )

(Before you spend your $$$ on the other "pipsqueak")

BTW, I have some 9mm Rimfire Shotshells...just because it's smaller doesn't mean it's better!

[Killertraylor]

Originally Posted by billc_sbio

Hey Aaron,

Get together w/me sometime and I'll let you shoot my 28 ga.

You'll SEE what I mean. (I can let you try a .410, right alongside, for contrast )

(Before you spend your $$$ on the other "pipsqueak")

BTW, I have some 9mm Rimfire Shotshells...just because it's smaller doesn't mean it's better!

I'd buy the gun just to accomplish one of my life's goals - to kill a Western Canada with a .410. I'm kinda thinking that NEF or similar single shot is the ultimate .410/big goose challenge though.

[scottishsetter]

I've heard some say the .410 is an experts' gauge. Small shot column; short time passes or was that short shot column, small time to pass by,,,?

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by Killertraylor

I'd buy the gun just to accomplish one of my life's goals - to kill a Western Canada with a .410. I'm kinda thinking that NEF or similar single shot is the ultimate .410/big goose challenge though.

I have a really "fun" 1970s waterfowling book, "The Best of Jimmy Robinson", a history of sorts of North American Waterfowling from the 1920s through the mid 1970s.

FWIW, Jimmy Robinson was a famous sports writer who had a passion for waterfowling, who hunted all over North America and had his own Duck Camp up on the Delta Marsh.

From the 1950s through the 1970s waterfowl hunters eagerly awaited the "Jimmy Robinson Waterfowl Forecast" which would come out annually in the October issue (that came out in September) of Sports Afield.

In this book there are fantastic photos and stories of Jimmy's life. They include many of his hunting trips with famous personalities and sports figures, such as Babe Ruth etc.

In the book there's one picture of Jimmy and two other hunters, one Baron Hilton (Paris' grandfather) Goose hunting Snow Geese in the Sacramento Valley at some lavish hunt club, and they're all sitting there holding Winchester Model 42s (Model 12 lookalikes in .410) that they've just shot these geese with.

At extremely close range, this was doable back then, using #4 Hard Lead shot.

In these days of Non-Toxic Shot, it could still be doable with the use of a shot as heavy as Bismuth or heavier in #4s or #5s. I doubt you'd ever find any shells for .410s loaded with Steel and certainly nothing bigger than #2s if you did.

Considering the 3" 20 ga. guns are "iffy" for Goose hunting carrying a whopping 7/8 oz. payload of Steel Shot, when you consider that a .410's shot capacity is 9/16 oz. of LEAD, you can get the idea that loaded with Steel (less than 1/2 oz. load) it would be severely challenged.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by scottishsetter

I've heard some say the .410 is an experts' gauge. Small shot column; short time passes or was that short shot column, small time to pass by,,,?

Narrow bore, TALL, High-Aspect Ratio Shot Column, NO shot cushioning, the WORST of all conditions.

The small bore (.41 caliber) leads to a Small payload, the tall column of shot adds to the most shot deformation due to ignition setback (weight of the shot allowing the bottom pellets to be deformed by the 1,000 p.s.i. HIGHER operating pressures than all the other shotgun gauges), the narrow bore allows for more shot deformation due to more shot riding close to the barrel walls.

All in all it's a worst scenario, design wise.

With Lead Shot the best design is a WIDE BORE with a Low Aspect Ratio Shot Column.

Often the best shot charges are ones that are "square" (equal height to the shot column as the bore diameter).

[baltz526]

he needs my spare bps 10ga