Cowlitz area Silver Guides

[FISHFINDER]

I am thinking about hiring a guide to learn the Cowlitz area for the silvers that are coming our way this fall and would like to get on the books before it's too late. Does anyone have any first hand experience with such a person? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
FF

AAAARGH! Sorry, only IFISH guides need apply! I posted this and then read the other post about guides. No harm intended.

[ 07-10-2001: Message edited by: FISHFINDER ]

[Gone Fishin]

I don't think any IFISH listed guides fish for Cowlitz Silvers,

AAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHH, Now whatcha gonna do??? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[Get Bit]

FF,
I don't think any of the Ifish guides fish the Cowlitz so here goes. Clancy Holt and the guides he works with are great. The others he works with are Ken Marsela, Craig Johnson and a couple of others. I'm not sure of the phone number but I'm sure somebody on this board can email you with the numbers.
Good Luck !

[Capin' Dan]

I would have to recommend Ken Marsula, Or maybe Clancies Son. I have fished with Clancy neumerous times and he catches fish. He is just getting grumpier and grumpier as he gets older and that kind of takes the fun away froom it. Ken and his son are just as good and are a blast to be around. I will probably be booking with Ken Marsula for my annual steelie trip on the cow that is my Christmas present to myself. I have used Clancy for the past few years. I may give his son a try though also. I don't want to paint to bad a picture about Clancy. He is the very best and most Knowledgeable guide on the river I think. He just needs to loosen up and have some fun. He is not rude just no happy go lucky like I like to be. We go at Chrstmas to do the holiday cheer not just be quite and hide our gear so no body else ses it. Lets have some fun. OK its soap box time. I'll get off of it. Clancy is my third choice.

Dan! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Fishfinder - Kid Cowlitz reporting..... [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

Shoot me an email and I can give you a couple of numbers to call. One of my friends has been guiding on that river for over 16 years and I could probably hook you up on the price.

Personally, I'd go for the silvers on the Toutle River with a guide before the Cowlitz, since the Cow's are notorious for lockjaw.

[Tanner]

mmmmmmmmmm Pork Rinds

[jawbreaker]

I would highly recommend Ifish guide Chris Sessions. The last time Chris guided some friends and I on the Cow for silvers, we hooked 15 and landed 9 and I was home by noon. Plus, he makes fishing a lot of fun.

[Jeffhead]

One Cowlitz guide I would highly recommend is Mike Sexton. The guy is a fish catchin' machine and just one nice guy. He knows the Cow like the back of his hand.
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[whitewaterbill]

I go along with Jawbreaker in recommending Chris Sessions. By the way, he is a advertiser on Ifish and you can get the contact info on Ifish's main page. You can also go to Chris' page from there.

Bill

[rob allen]

Make sure whatever guide you hire understands that you are there to learn the river not just get a limit of fish. Make sure he knows that you are there to learn.. With cowlitz river guides you cannot assume they will know that. A lot of them seem to be more like charter boat captains , where all they want you to do is reel the fish in.

PS this kind of guiding disgusts me.

[FISHFINDER]

Thanks to everyone for all the information. This gives me something to follow.

FF

[whitewaterbill]

Rob,

Guides have worked hard to learn a trade just like those of us that work at other trades. They are paid to take you fishing, not teach you anything. If you are an avid fisherman like many of us here, You don't need to offend the guide by telling him what you expect to learn. I go with guides several times per year and find that you will learn plenty if you just pay attention to what is going on and be friendly and ask a few questions. Nice will teach you more than demanding.
These guys have spent years developing a talent that will pay the bills and keep them out there for those that don't fish without them. Why should they give it to you for free?

Many people go with guides not to learn but have a great day and maybe catch some fish.

Best advice I have is go with the best one you can find.

I know who I will go with....One of them ...I already mentioned above. A great time and if you pay attention you will learn plenty....I have!

Great fishing to all!

Bill

[OR Coast Range]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Why should they give it to you for free? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its not free, you've got to pony up at the end of the day. Thats the main reason I've never been on a guided trip (except for a few charter trips) - too much of a tight *** [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] .

[whitewaterbill]

O F C,

Thanks for sharing all of your experience with guides.

If you read my post closly...it will tell you what you paid for with a guide. Any learning is a bonus! It will depend on you to learn...not the guide.

Bill

[rob allen]

If that is the attitude of steelhead guide around here then there are no good guides. It seems as though guides have around here have fashioned their industry the way they want it not the way that is best for the client.
Last 2 summers I worked out of a place that set up guide trips cor hundreds of clients per summer.

Guides should never ever evner never fish.
A guides job unless suggested otherwise by the client is to teach!!!
If a client wants to learn how to fish a particular river the Guides job is to make sure that person learns the river. It is not something that the client should just pick up as they go along/ It is something the guide should teach forthrightly and overtly.
Guides should answer any and all questions and do anything the client asks.

Clients pay good money and it sounds as though they are getting ripped off. A guides business plan should have 2 parts.

1. to establish a clientel that will continue fishing with him even though he is not needed

2. make all other clients knowledgeable and skillful enough that they no longer need a guide.

[Gone Fishin]

Hey Rob,

I don't want to toot my own horn, but I really think you need to come fishing with me! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

-Marty

[rob allen]

Gone fishing I wouldn't mind taking a Fall chinook trip, someday maybe i'll be able to afford it.

Marty I am sure there are some great guides out there. But from what I have heard about most of the guides on the Cowlitz They are few and far between on that river. I understand a guide needs to make money and thats ok, but a guides needs to do more than just get people into fish. People should walk away from a guide trip able to go out and do it for themselves. If that doesn't occur whats the point in hireing a guide? Unless of course all the client wants is a freezer full of fish and one day of fishing

[Salmonator]

Hey Rob, try to see another point of view besides your own. Many people don't have the time or money to fish with their own equipment. Wait a minute, guides are getting a buck and a half a head but people don't have the money to fish on their own? Yes, factor in a boat or two, several loomis's w/reels and all the little things in between and you'll see what I mean. Then the time on the river spent to increase your odds. What is all that experience worth? In many cases, teaching the particulars of a stretch of river or best tides/river levels for an area is an open invitation for future boats to be sitting in your honey hole using the exact method that took you years to figure out so that you could make a living at it. And no, a good guide doesn't depend on one hole but every little bit helps. This might all sound a little extreme and applies mostly to smaller rivers but I hope you see my point. A person on a guided trip should be able to pick up enough from the gear and water he's fishing to give him a good idea of what's going on. And if anyone can get Scott A's cure recipe from him on a guided trip, i'd be willing to trade a couple of GL3's for just HALF the ingredients... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[superfly]

A couple of great guys and fantastic guides down there are Mike Sexton
and Bear Pallas, just great fishing with good guys, you could not ask for more.
book soon, because they are always booked.
Superfly [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[OR Coast Range]

Hey, I didn't mean to step on anyones johnson here. Sorry if I offended you by quoting you Slutgoddess, but people hire guides for different reasons. There was a pretty good discusion of this on Pisc. Pursuits.

Someone from out of town isn't necessarily going to want to learn the river or learn new methods. They are probably just going to go to have a good time and bring home some Oregon fish and some good pictures.

On the other hand, if I went out with a guide I would want to learn something while I'm out there. I wouldn't want to just go for the boat ride and rod handoffs. I'm not saying that I would expect him (or her) to give up their honey holes but some lessons on differnt methods and maybe recognizing different holding water would be in good order. I am fairly new to salmon and steelhead, and I learn something new every time I go out. But I would hate to pass up an opertunity to learn from an expert.

[superfly]

Just a comment to one I read above, If I did not fish when guiding people alot of them would go home empty and un happy. Not a good mix when you are a guide. You are there to give them a good day on the water and if they want that to include a chance at taking fish home then you must do as they wish because they are paying you for the service.
Thanks Superfly [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Amerman]

Rob, I would love to know who the guide or guides you have went with are that soured you so bad. I have a feeling you have never been on a guided trip before or if you have, I definitely want to know who it was with. If you have been on a guided trip, please email me who the person was in private. I am not about guide-bashing in public. [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

As for your view of what a guide's job entails, I have to comment on some of the things you said. First you said a guide should never fish. As a guide, I would argue that there are a lot of times while controlling the boat it is imperative to fish to ensure my clients are being presented with correct boat placement and speed to ensure them getting into the fish. For me, boondogging on the smaller coast streams is one of those times. I have never done it on a river as large as the Cowlitz and have a feeling that may be different. I don't know. If I am pulling divers or trolling (neither of which I ever do), none of that is needed. Even though I guide, I still love to fish as much as the next guy and feel people would have to pay me twice as much to go out in the boat and not fish.

As for teaching the client to fish, I agree that if you want to go to learn, it is important to tell the guide that is why you are going. I believe that 10-20% of a guide's clientele fall into the categorty you are talking about of wanting to learn. In those instances I love to teach people as anyone on this board who has fished with me could tell you. A lot of my clients that have come with the idea of fishing once and learning the river have become my greatest clients, fishing way more often with me than ever fishing by themselves. Many of them end up selling their boats because the boat just doesn't get used anymore. These people are the ones that you actually explain how important every detail is. They learn how much there really is to know about fishing and just how hard it is to go back out and do what you do in their own boat.

But most my clients anyway fall into that other 80 - 90%. These clients are often the type of people like Joe (Salmonator) described that realize it is cheaper to go with a guide than it is to try to own their own boat, truck to pull it with, rods and reels, tackle for all occasions, bait, gas, and everything else. OFC, many of these people live close to where the river is, some even on the river, and don't necessarily have to be from out of town. Many of these people have full time jobs and can't afford to fish as much as they would like. So they know if they are going to go, say, one day a week, it might as well be with a guide and, they feel they have the best opportunity to get into fish. These people don't care why the fishing is holding in a particular area you are fishing, exactly how you are fishing an area, or even to pay attention every minute. They want to come out, have a good time, relax, enjoy talking to their friends, enjoy talking to you, telling good stories, and maybe even hearing a good joke.

As for your comment about a guide doing ANYTHING a client asks, come on. How much would a person have to pay you to do ANYTHING they asked? Many people that come fishing don't know or care about the laws or the needs of our fisheries. Many times over years of guiding you will be asked by a client to do something that is illegal or detrimental to the fishery, such as killing a fish that a client clearly would not eat just because the fish is big. It is my job to stop the guy who didn't bring his license from fishing without a license or from continuing to fish after getting his limit of fish. There is no way anyone, no matter what they are paid, should ever have to do ANYTHING someone else asks.

I believe many of the people that have this view of a guide-should-only-be-a-teacher or view guides as only whacking and sacking the fish have never been with a guide. If they have been with a guide, I have a feeling they were probably too quiet, shy, or in awe of the guide to ask questions or let the guide know what their idea of fishing was. I just hate it when people start guide-bashing for the sake of guide-bashing or make broad generalizations about guides as a whole when it is obvious that they have little experience as a client.

I have a feeling that anyone who is looking for a guide for the Cowlitz and was able to talk Chris Sessions into taking them would get whatever they wanted out of the trip.

And Joe, if you do find out half the ingredients in my secret cure for your G loomis, my wife said she would make you cookies if you would tell her. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Amerman ]

[superfly]

I knew I pooped in my own corn flakes there, by putting anything in there, what I meant was within the confines of the law. Remember the guide is there to give the client as good as day as possible and to teach them techniques to hopefully have a successfull trip. Now I am shuttin Up!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Peace Superfly

[ 07-12-2001: Message edited by: Jennie@ifish ]

[Jeffhead]

I fall into the 10% category that has been talked about here, if I hire a guide I will do it to increase my knowledge of a particular river or tactic. The thing that I do is to COMMUNICATE this to the guide before I book the trip, that way there is no confusion as to what my expectations are. As for learning from guides I do that EVERY TIME I am on the river, watch what they do, what they are using, and where they are fishing!!! Hell I do this with friends that I fish with that I know that they know more than me, just be observant and you will learn!!! JMHO
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
PS,
Hand offs are an OK thing if that is what you agreed to prior to the trip. If you don't want the guide fishing, just tell him so.

[Get Bit]

This thread is traling away from the Cowlitz but....
Three things pertaining to guides :

1. You pay the guide for his day to day knowledge of the area you are fishing. He knows where the fish are and how to catch them.

2. Do some research. Use places like Ifish, friends, coworkers etc. to get referrals for guides. Some guys troll, some guys bobber fish, etc. What is that you want out of trip?
Just because a guy has a boat and six pack license doesn't mean he can catch fish.

3. If you want guaranteed fish, go to Safeway !!

[rob allen]

Amerman,, Of course you are right a guide should never do anything illegal, dangerous or unethical at the request of a client.
My experience with guides is limited to the fly fishing arena where 90% of the people who hire a guide want to learn enough that the next day they don't ned a guide. Most people when going to Montana for the first time will hire a guide for the first day and at the end of that day they know about th history of the river, what insects are hatching, where the fish are holding in the river and why and they will know what to do to catch them..
I guess guiding in the Northwest for steelhead is a diffeent ball game. But I am still absolutely convinced that a guide should not fish unless specifically asked to by the client. How many fish will the client not hook because the guide already caught it???

[Nuttinbutnet]

Hey Rob, most guides that I know will fish to maximize the chances of hooking a fish. The rod is then normally handed of to a client. I, as an avid fisherman and boat owner, have taken many inexperienced people fishing. If not for me handing off a rod, they would probably never know the thrill of landing a Steelie or Salmon. In this respect I think there is vary little difference between the guides and alot of us that enjoy not only catching fish but helping others catch fish. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[STRIKE ZONE]

Mike Sexton @ 360-864-6665 He's a great guy and guide to fish with.Good luck,
STRIKE ZONE

[David Johnson]

I totaly agree with Nuthinbutnet and Scott Amerman. Scott said everything I would have.

[Tilla]

The reason I like guides:
1. It's great customer entertainment
2. I learn something.
3. I don't have to clean up and put the boat away.
4. The company pays for it!

[img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
Mike Sexton is one of the best Cowlitz guides

[rob allen]

I didn't mean to start a whole big issue out of the original poster in this thread said what he wanted to learn from the trip was to learn the cowlits and how to catch it's silvers. I have taught many people how to fish with various methods and it is nearly impossible to do so while fishing yourself. There is a difference between showing and teaching.
If the all the clients want is to hook as many fish as possible then fine let the guide fish and do whatever but that is not the case here. Thats all i am gonna say i have probably said too much already

[Steve]

As for Guides, Love them, never use them but love them...they are the ones doing the fishing, the rest are jerks at both ends of the line. One waiting for the other. I respect the work that guides do...set up equipment, get up in the middle of the night for an early start. **** long hours, sometimes clients with attitudes, other boaters with attitudes. Clean fish, save eggs, unless the client wants them. Clean boat of garbage, stinky bait, and what ever else gets dump in the boat, pay for a million dollars worth of insurance, Guides license, etc. etc. etc.....it averages out that the guides make about 7.00 / hour per person. unless he is fishing Bouy 10 and makes 3 trips a day....with quick limits...Steve

[HOGTIDE]

And for all of the guides reading this post..."don't ya get absolutely burned out, sometimes?" Being a teacher, I have the luxury of being able to fish each day, all summer. But after 4 days in a row, in the wind,waking early, riggin,sloshin', cleanin', launchin'...I just gotta take a one or two day break. And, I don't have any finnicky customers with great expectations to take care of.

Oh Ya, If I hire a guide, it is mostly for the luxury of having no responsibility. Just sit back, play dumb, have fun and let someone else take control of the trip for once.A fisherman will naturally pickup new techniques and strategies.

[ 07-13-2001: Message edited by: HOGTIDE ]