Selling an idea

ampersat · 08-07-2007, 09:18 AM

As one Ifisher put it, I have an "active mind". Occasionally I come up with an idea that could be very marketable. However, most of the time, there's an existing company that is already close to the proposed product and it just makes more sense to market the product idea to them than trying to compete with them in the market. That also means that without the proper protections, my idea is easily stolen.

Any advice? PMs would definitely be appreciated.

Jennie@ifish · 08-07-2007, 10:01 AM

I have had many of these. In fact, my ex hubby and I used to have these and we'd say, "Whatdya bet, someone will have this on TV within the month!" And they WOULD!!!

LOL

Mad Mikey · 08-07-2007, 01:31 PM

Write the idea down in as much detail as possible, enclose it in an envelope and mail it to yourself. Keep it sealed. Then, contact the party that may be interested in the idea. When you share the idea make sure they know you have a sealed, dated copy of what you are showing them so there is a verifiable date that YOU had the idea first. Cheap insurance policy.

goodkarma · 08-07-2007, 01:55 PM

If it's really a good idea, why not apply for a patent? Then it won't matter who makes the product, you'll be entitled to royalties. Of course, you'll need to be prepared for a legal battle if someone does take it but a patent is still your best bet.
BTW, I've heard the envelope trick no longer works in court.

Chrome Bumper · 08-07-2007, 02:03 PM

Notary republic can witness and date your documents. My wife is always inventing stuff. email her if you want a reading list regarding trademarks and patents.
You might drop her a line. PM me for her contact info.

latesvak · 08-07-2007, 02:03 PM

I Agree With Mad Mikey Up There . Do The Mail Thing Its Fool Proof

Luke

fishboys · 08-07-2007, 02:32 PM

Just be on the watch out for unmarked vehicles and black helicopters. And most important is to wear your tinfoil hat even in the shower.

goodkarma · 08-07-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latesvak

I Agree With Mad Mikey Up There . Do The Mail Thing Its Fool Proof

Luke

Here is the legal stance on the "fool proof" mail idea.

However, this idea of a "Poor Man's Copyright" is a myth and not valid in a court of law. The only time copyright litigation can be pursued is when the original creator of intellectual property has REGISTERED the property with the U.S. Office of Copyright (provided they live in the U.S.).

Does the "Poor Man's Copyright" PROVE that the work was created by the date it was mailed? Not in a legal court of law. Again, the only proof (or prima facie evidence of validity) is when the original work is legally registered with the proper authorities.

Chrome Bumper · 08-07-2007, 03:06 PM

I am not sure that is true with patents.

ampersat · 08-07-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishboys

Just be on the watch out for unmarked vehicles and black helicopters. And most important is to wear your tinfoil hat even in the shower.

Funny you should mention it, fishboys. My idea is a new, more efficient tinfoil hat design.

Mad Mikey · 08-07-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodkarma

Here is the legal stance on the "fool proof" mail idea.

However, this idea of a "Poor Man's Copyright" is a myth and not valid in a court of law. The only time copyright litigation can be pursued is when the original creator of intellectual property has REGISTERED the property with the U.S. Office of Copyright (provided they live in the U.S.).

Does the "Poor Man's Copyright" PROVE that the work was created by the date it was mailed? Not in a legal court of law. Again, the only proof (or prima facie evidence of validity) is when the original work is legally registered with the proper authorities.

Thanks for the info, I heard this a long long time ago. I figured if my post was in error there'd be someone here to set me straight.....

Here's the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_man's_copyright

tmees · 08-07-2007, 05:47 PM

Check out Nolo.com they have many self help law books.

Pete · 08-07-2007, 07:13 PM

If you mail the idea to yourself, how do you prove to someone that the envelope was sealed at the time it was date-stamped by the post office?

12244 · 08-07-2007, 09:25 PM

Uh, Its Notary Public, no Republic about it, funny stuff.
Although it is illiegal to advertise as an Oregon Notary in Spanish, as Notaries South of the border are lawyers, and not the case here. We would not want to confuse any Spanish speaking neighbors from the South.

I have the NOLO book "Small Biz Legal Smarts" if you want to read it.

The only really good way to make a product, is to do it all by yourself

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

Notary republic can witness and date your documents. My wife is always inventing stuff. email her if you want a reading list regarding trademarks and patents.
You might drop her a line. PM me for contact info.

ampersat · 08-07-2007, 09:57 PM

So, what do you do if it's not the sort of thing that you could patent?

B-RUN STEELIE · 08-08-2007, 06:02 AM

Interesting, I know something of patent law and actually have several issued in my name ( nothing of value to the general public but in the Semi conductor industery) Its very complex. First you would need to do a patent search and see whats out there thats the same or similar. What I always scratched my head over was the fact that an idea does not have to be proven to work, or even to have been actually done. The idea itself can be grounds for a patent. If your idea is something simple, the best plan of action is to have a working model made yourself. Often, when an idea is presented to lets say a large company within the industery you are addressing.. if its a good idea the very first thing they do is to see how they can get in on it with additional ideas of their own, which they in turn will patent.. and leave you out. Its very dog eat dog out in the patent world.

In addition, I have been asking for clarification on 1 item. Lets say you have an idea. You discuss this idea on an internet forum in some detail. I have wondered if the date / time stamp on that post would stand up in court when someone else takes that idea and presents it. Seems much more valid that sending yourself a letter, but I don't actually know the answer.

lor · 08-08-2007, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mikey

Write the idea down in as much detail as possible, enclose it in an envelope and mail it to yourself. Keep it sealed. Then, contact the party that may be interested in the idea. When you share the idea make sure they know you have a sealed, dated copy of what you are showing them so there is a verifiable date that YOU had the idea first. Cheap insurance policy.

This process is no longer acceptable as proof.
Talk to any patent attorney and they will confirm it.
The first one to file it owns it period.

negoc8 · 08-08-2007, 09:51 AM

Back in about 1976 my brother put some ski bindings on a small surf board, put a sharp edge on it for cutting the snow on turns. Man we road they heck out of that thing until it snapped getting air over a fallen tree. Could have been the first snow board on Weston mountain!

Go for Amp! do something before someone else does!

DucterJim · 08-08-2007, 03:12 PM

I use to do a lot of dealing with intellectual property with many different companies around the world. Never discuss details without a confidentiallity agreement. If they won't sign one don't make the trip. To get them intrested talk the end benefits of the idea not the details if you can. If they want to screw you, most major companies don't, they might find a way but you have a document they sign and date. Talk to your attorney. Patents are expensive and difficult to get, and don't mean a thing until they are tested in court and it rules in your favor. Time to market is the most important, find a partner you can trust and get a decent royality with something upfront for your idea. Good luck.

StickFish · 08-08-2007, 04:49 PM

If it has to do with replacing door knobs - forget it some will just never understand

StrikeFighter · 08-08-2007, 05:41 PM

Look up the definition of design Patents, For design of things offering some protection. easy to do and get

Look up the definition of utility patents. Toughest to get much deeper protection.

look up the definition of copyrights.

Also for about $75.00 the last time I check you can write all the info and file for a patent with patent office, then you have one year to complete the real bonofide patent application.

If it a patent in the fishing business things you should know before getting in the fishing business to deep.
Stores want a minimum of 40 percent for each dollar a item cost in the store and this is how the pie is split.
Stores 40% some want 50%
distributors 25% on a hot seller make accept less
Reps 10%
Federal excise tax 10% of first sale
Manufactor cost to make 25 % to 33% in the USA

Well that adds up to nearly 110%..........opps where is the profit.
Federal excise tax is basicly putting the Major manufacturers out of business. That why you see them selling out and are going out of business.

The profit margin simply doesn't allow them any room to pay inventors such as your self any big royalty because of the base line profit is to small. If you are in to inventing then you will have a better chance of selling your ideas to company if your inventing field does not have to pay federal excise tax like we do in the fishing business.

FET can actually be well over a 100% of profits and is totally out of control. Example say the profit on a lure was .40 cents and the first sale of that lure was $5.00 the the FET would be .50 cents are a lost of .10 cents per lure sold....