pontoon boats

[tomtom]

I've started researching different one person pontoon boats. I am overwhelmed with the number of boats out there on the computer. I am looking for a boat that will be capable of running the Sandy and Clack with the necessary gear. I run about 230 lbs. so I need a stout boat. My budget limits at $500-$600. I would love to pick up a higher quality used one or demo but I can't seeem to find any out there. Does any body have any suggestions or pontoon boats collecting dust?

[Sean]

Tomtom, I just bought mine a month ago after excessive research. In your price range, you have only a a few choices, narrowed down by your intended use. If you plan on running rivers (class 1, mild - moderate stuff, etc.), you need pontoons of at least 8'. If I know anything about the Sandy and Clack, they are loaded with class 2 / 3 stuff, not water that most pontooners would reccommend running. The longer the pontoon, the more stable the boat in heavy water. Here's some names and boats to consider:

Bucks Bags Southfork (the one I bought). 8' pontoons, 350lb capacity, rides high, awesome fun in moderate rivers, better for lakes. With anchor, rod holder, $725.00 from my local fly shop. Weighs only 44lbs. There have been a couple on sale on Ebay for about $450.00.

Bucks Bronco. 9' pontoons, heavy duty 22oz PVC pontoons, comes with anchor and all the toys for about $900.

Waterskeeter makes a boat called the River Runner that looks good, and they claim it is whitewater rated I think, but I bought (and promptly returned) one of their entry level boats and thought it sucked.

Dave Scadden (available at Buffalo Creek in Lake Oswego) makes a 9' boat called the Expedition DLS, with anchor system and cargo deck built in, sells for about $600 or so. I did not like the foot rests (not adjustable - if I moved the seat back to fit my 6'1" frame, the cargo deck was useless), and the system that attached the 'toons to the frame seemed cheesy to me.

Outcast makes a Pac8 for about $600, but it lacks tough vinyl on the 'toons, and is pretty heavy.

I settled on the Southfork on the advice of a guide friend that runs his on the D, Warm Springs to Trout Creek all the time. It is the lightest 8' boat on the market, and the top seller anywhere. Scadden boats are too new, outcast was too expensive for the quality, and the Waterskeeter... well, the first one basicly sunk under my 250lb load.

Your first priority should be safety; choose the boat that makes your intended use as safe as possible. I justifyed mine to the Supreme Commander by selling a couple rods on Ebay to make up the difference!

By the way - just had the maiden voyage on the McKenzie yesterday - moving water is a blast!

Hope this helps!

[ 07-02-2001: Message edited by: Sean ]

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

You need to get in touch with Osprey if you want a real cataraft. Yes Osprey, I too one day will have a real cataraft. [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

tomtom - I totally scored on my Outcast Pac1200. It's a Pac800 model with an attachment frame for the extra person. I got it one year old for $ 1K.

I have absolutely no problem moving that boat around by myself if I have to.

Personally, I'd stay away from those catarafts that have those curled up tubes that look like a belly dancer's slippers, just because I think they are stupid looking.

Bucks Bags would be more economical for you or the Pac800. I'd recommend the Outcast over the Bucks Bag in a heartbeat. With the budget you have to work with, the pickings will be very slim, unless you could score on a used one.

Osprey pretty much knows all about catarafts since he did all his research on cats well before the computer age, so he's talked to the manufacturers, etc.

I've got to get a new frame for my fishing purposes because there isn't a standing platform for the rower (on my boat) and the frame needs to be about a foot wider and more sturdy.

Maybe Tanner or Osprey can post a pic of Tanner's cataraft. It's totally bad @ss and I feel privileged to have been on the maiden voyage of the S.S. Pork Rinds. That frame was built by Osprey.

[Sean]

Reel - why do you say the outcast over the Bucks?

[tomtom]

I want to thank you two for all the info. I was beginning to wonder if anybody had any information to share on the topic. It's just what I was looking for. It sounds like I will be a lot better off investing a little more money. Unless I can find a used one I think I'm down to the Buck's Bags or the Waterskeeter River Tamer.

Thanx again!

[Sean]

Good luck, just make sure its built for the types of water you are likely to encounter. And wear your life vest - it's hard to put one on while drowning, or after falling out of the boat and bonking your head on a rock!

[Steelheader69]

Yeah, I'd agree with Ya'll, buy a cataraft. You want something stable and well built. It's better to spend a little more money on a good boat once, then to buy a crappy boat and have to move up. I'll apologize, I thought I'd replied to your post. I've been replying to a rash of guys wanting info on cats lately that I can't keep up.

Been running cats for about 12 years. Spent most of my time running whitewater with them. When I bought mine there were, hmmm, Aire, Aire, and ummmmm Aire manufacturing them (with a few other up and coming manufacturers starting their production). Most of the companies had rafts and that's about it. Converted my whitewater frame a few years back into a modified driftboat. Osprey will be making my new improved fishing frame so I can leave my whitewater frame simply a whitewater frame.

I'm actually about to list my small cataraft for sale. It's a 9ft Steelheader. It's whitewater rated and I've run it safely on class 4's. Yes, it's true, the longer the tube the more secure it is in the water. My 16ft cat is like a big suburban rolling over the country side. Just smooths over hard water. But, if you want a real kick in the pants you run a 9-12 ft boat over same water and you'll really have your hands full.

Well, I never researched manufactures of tubes. Mostly because there weren't any and the internet was unheard of then. But I will say, my boat is 12 years old and is in pretty damned good shape for it's age. I've posted it on rocks, sticks, limbs, rusted car bodies, and you name it and it's virtually been unscathed. It's stable and can carry a huge load (about 1800 lbs). It's nice to have protection for your boat, and if you have the money buy the best tubes you can get. But if you buy from one of the big names in tubes (Sotar, Wing, Aire, NRS, Maravia) you can't go wrong. These are boats made for whitewatering, not fishing. They design them to withstand the rigors of rapids. You buy some of these "package" fishing boats and they're made to float mellow floats, not to hit rapids.

Well, could go on and on, but it's been said in numerous posts before.

[Tanner]

TomTom and Sean,
I own an Outcast Pac 800 and have for 5 years now. You will be hard pressed to find tubes that are made out of a tougher material than the PVC that Outcast uses. My Outcast took a spill on Highway 26 in Welches at 50 MPH off of a trailer with a 12' Avon raft and galvanized frame riding on top of it. It ground about an inch off one of the brass oarlocks, ground an 1/8 of an inch off of the front D Rings. The only thing it did to the PVC tubes was scuff them up. If you don't believe me come on over and look at it sometime.

I have also had my Pac 800 in Class 4 rapids on the Deschutes with no problems. I must admit it does feel a little spooky when you are climbing a big wave in an 8 foot craft.

Sean, I would really like to find out where you can get a brand new Pac 800 for $600.00.
I was in Fishermans Marine week before last and they were right around $1100.00. The one you are probably referring to is the Chinsy FishCat that GI Joes sells.

TomTom, do not let anyone tell you that an Outcast is a crappy boat. I have enjoyed mine for almost six years now and I know that boat has at least another 10 years left in it. If you can come up with the extra money, you would be wise to go with the Outcast Pac 800.

I would also like to mention that I recently purchased a 16 foot Sotar Cataraft and had a very sweet custom frame made by someone (Who hates Outcasts [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ). I have already learned from the couple floats I have done with my big cat that the PVC that those Outcasts are made of. Is probably the strongest, most durable tube material on the market. (That's right Os, I already put some surface tears in my Polyeurethane tubes just by scraping some rocks. I can drag that PVC down the street and all it does is gives it a polish. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Steelheader69]

Hey Tanner, it's not the materials the boat is made of that makes them crap (I know Os hates bladder boats all together) it's the design. I too have had a couple Outcasts. Had a low end fishcat and a couple different Pac's. Luckily, the Pac's are made by Aire, but to Outcasts design. They're material is very tough. My Aire tubes are 12+ years old and have run the gambit of obstacles. It's just that Outcast doesn't increase their tube width with increase of tube length. Plus, they're frames are way too small for overall dimensions of boat. You've been working the oars for along time Tanner, and it'll help you incredibly. But you put a novice on an Outcast and let them go and they'll be in trouble. Especially in the 8-9ft boats, they're a complete rocker hull. All rise and no leveling in hull. Now, put a novice in a better designed boat and they'll stand a chance. All I can do is give you this example that I saw first hand. Bunch of my friends went out whitewatering. I'd never done the upper Sky before (and haven't since) and went through the boulder drop with my then new Steelheader. Had a couple buddies in their Outcasts and Bucks. I watched a few of the Outcasts go through and you could see the frame twist. I was the only guy who's boat went through the drop with no twist. One guy actually bent the frame on a fishcat (yes, it's a cheaper boat, but they use the same frames as the Pac's). I can't say on current boats since I don't look at Outcasts, but they only have 2 crossmembers that are about 3/4" in a square diameter. Not very stable (that's one of the reasons I moved up in the small boat market is because of the frame twist).

But Tanner, I ran my Fishcat through class 4's, but it was hairy. But ran same runs in my steelheader and was completely different. How do you like your frame Tanner? I'm hoping to have Os make mine pretty quickly. We'll have to have a float of the cats here soon.

[Sparkey]

In your price range I would say stick with the South Fork. Outcast makes a Pac 8 but it is only 7 1/2 feet and draws too much water under even my light weight (150 #'s).

If you could spend more money I would step up to the either the Pac 9 at around $900-the best boat you are going to find for under $1000. Its 9' so it is more then capable to run most if not all the water you are going to take the boat through. The Pac 800, 900 and 1000 have the same frames except they are thicker diameter PVC on the pontoons then the Pac 8, Pac 9 series and come with a 10 yr warranty instead of a 3.

So either save your money, look for a used boat or settle for the South Fork (she is not a bad boat). The best thing you can do though if buy the composite oars. Ive ran both the aluminum, the plastic and the Catacracts and their is no comparision!! They make all the differance in the world.

Ive been yelled at many times before when I touted the quality and how well the Outcasts run suprisingly tough and dangerous water. Mr. 69, O's and the rest all said that I was stupid and I need to get a cataraft and catarafts are probally the way to go but the size of these boats takes away the huge advantage of why I love pontoon boats. I can throw mine in everywhere and I need to, throw it over my shoulder and walk in a 100 yds. I can also take them down the skinniest of rivers and creeks and carry them around sweepers that cover a whole river-like I had to do last winter.

[SSPey]

Sparkey,

Your point about smaller boats being more portable is right on. Some people want access with a minimum of hassle, and as long as you're smart enough to stay away from the really rough stuff, and also realize that there is no substitute for time behind the oars, then smaller boats are fine for most waters that interest anglers. good point.

[Steelheader69]

Ummmm, sparkey, you didn't read anything we wrote did you???? A cataraft isn't SIZE of boat, it's CONSTRUCTION. Aire, NRS, and I assume the others (including Wing) make tubes in the 9-10ft range. The taper and overall design of the "pontoon" boat tubes are of rockerhull design. Great for still water but very poor for whitewater. Most of these so called "whitewater" ratings are based on some expert running the rapids in the boat. I have run outcasts in class 4's, but would I advise it? NO! I can handle it. I've been running cats for well over a decade, in fact as I've said I have one of the first production catarafts out there. It's a good 13 years old (I bought it at about a year old or so). I have a 9ft steelheader that have tubes designed for cutting whitewater, not riding through it. Quality? I'm sorry, but if you really looked at over all design of all the Buck's, Outcasts, and etc you'd see they are lacking. I've only seen one Outcast that was close, and it was HEAVILY modified. The only thing left stock on the boat were the D rings. The frames are first to go on those boats because they're built too flimsy on your main support struts. Plus, a true cataraft is very stable sitting still. You can STANDUP in a cat while at anchor or free drifting. You can't with a pontoon boat. You can flip a pontoon alot easier then a cataraft. And to all that are claiming the "portability" aspect. Well, they're all portable. Your big ones AREN'T made for one man portaging. The 9-10 foot cats are. I can lift and carry my boat no sweat. Hell, I can almost carry my 16 footer on my back. I highly doubt you'll be hiking many miles to drop a boat in. I fish quite a few remote rivers and usually find some decent bank (sometimes steep) to drop my boat in. That's another bonus of these boats, you can rig them with rope and feed them to the river below.

I read your post about running the oxbow way back when. The oxbow is kidsplay. I ran my steelheader down it. At time I hadn't finetuned boat yet and oarlocks were a bit loose. Had my oars pop before the first turn. My boat tracked true and went through first shoot without skipping a beat while I popped oars back in.

Fine, you want to see quality Sparkey, go hit the Boulder drop on the Sky with an Outcast. I've done it in my Steelheader. Then tell me quality. I'm sorry to sound ***** , but I've been running cats longer then most. I was a teenager with an Ocelot running whitewater with a club. I didn't start using mine for fishing a few years back. So when I speak about cats, I look at the boat first, not the fishing aspect. I know (and have seen) all different designs and such over the years. I've seen 4 tube boats, 6 tube boats (that's a dual and triple tube per side). I still have some of the whitewater videos of the old club. Even then you'd never see a guy running a cat with such a rounded hull. They're just not stable.

Oh well, go for it with your Outcast. I only bought mine because at time there weren't any smaller boats being produced by the big Cat manufacturers. (which, I've run small 8-9ft boats for about 7-8 years). I gave up on Outcasts when I read about the Steelheader. Then I found that the big guys started making small boats. So next one I'll get is going to be a custom small boat. But, might as well get a 10-12 ft boat. It's more flexible and still one man portable and stable on big waves. Plus, I've run summer flows on the Nooch with my 16ft cat and didn't have to drag it. It only drafts a couple inches of water. In fact, it drafted as much water as my outcast in depth. Drafted alot more square footage only because of length/width. Scary thought isn't it? Oh well, I could go on and on. I speak from experience and expertise. Not from hype. I look at these boats in a practical manner, not a glitzy manner. Plus, I'm not doing a ford/chevy thing. I'm not comparing brands, I'm comparing designs.

[Sean]

Tanner, a pac 8 is different than a pac 800, check their website, and yes, an 8 sells for about $600.00. The cheap crap Fish Cat that GI Joes sells is $370.00. Lest I remind anyone that boats like Southforks and Fishcats, and even 800's are not reccommended for anything above moderate rivers (class II). Suit yourself, but to run bigger water than moderate in an 8' boat not built for it is asking for a bent frame or worse. I weigh 250+ lbs (I hate the plus...), and the Southfork keeps me high and dry. I have no intention of running anything more nasty than Warm Springs to Trout Creek or a couple of drifts on the lower McKenzie. If I want to, I'll get a different boat. But for my $600.00, the Southfork was my best choice. It weighs 15lbs less than a Pac 8 or Fish Cat too.