Custom Cat Frames?

smilesforu · 06-26-2001, 09:55 PM

I see Jerry still working on getting Os to build him a new cat frame. Duct tape doesn't actually count as a frame yall. What kind of tubing are you using to build these things. I recently read where fence top rail pipe was being used to make custom frames. Sounds like it would be inexpensive with the right connectors. Of course those aren't readily available and would need to be custom made. I have also seen smaller frames built with electrical conduit then short pieces of smaller tubing placed inside and riveted to make them a break down frame. My old puma raft had a frame that was custom made from the conduit and it held up great but was supported cross ways by water tight board for strength. Then comes the problem of getting the tubes for your new frame. Would glad bags work [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] I am always willing to spend 3 bucks to save one...
Tight Lines

Osprey · 06-28-2001, 06:51 AM

Hey Marty,sorry it took so long to get back to ya here.
top rail fence is used for some frames,I suppose on a realy large boat.
I use galv. conduit in 1" i.d. for almost all my frames,This stuff is tuff.
some manufactures use 3/4,I've built one of these ,it was a very small frame,and was a break down also.
I've seen the rivoted pins on breakdown frames before [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] ,I weld all my pins.(no rivots on my boats)

Not too many connectors out there,most are elec. fittings and not made to hold handle the stess of a frame [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

Hope this answers the questions.It's not too late to trade that mini-drifter for river 4x4 (cat)...........Os

smilesforu · 06-28-2001, 11:08 PM

No prob Os lots of better uses of free time.

I still got that little rubber ducky called a float n tote. It has what looks like a factory built frame that was adjusted to fit it. Its not a break down frame and I do own a hack saw...naw just don't need to since it is so small.

I would agree the welded inserts would be much better. I could see some wear on the rivets of the old frame and it wasn't used much. Another problem on the old frame was a weak anchor release.
Can't get rid of the new boat yet, it has to go through the dust collection process [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. I am tempted to bid on a raft on ebay.... Wish that site would go out of business. Save me a fortune.

Thanks of the insight on the tubing. Ever thought about making youre own tubes? I suspect the expensive part would be the plastic seam welder. I think we have a old commercial plastic seamer from the hospital... We were going to take the wheels off for a rod building machine. Got my pea brain thinking again

Osprey · 06-28-2001, 11:26 PM

Biuld my own tubes...... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Way too expensive ;eek:
some boats just glue the seams others use bladders with glued seams.

I perfer the heat welded seams used by Wing and Sotar......expensive Ya "but I'm worth it [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Marty.....if you would leave e-bay alone it would leave more for the rest of us [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ....Os

smilesforu · 06-28-2001, 11:39 PM

The Aire boat had a bladder inside the pontoons. Didn't seem like that tough of material. The strength of the tubes came from the outside materials protecting the sealed inner tubes. The bottom had a plastic slip protection on the bottom of the raft that was very tough. I would bet the materials were under $200 for the raft and they retail for 2K. The plastic welding is nothing more than a special seal a meal [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] Been browsing the web looking for companies that specialize in this type of material... If you know who makes it, it would be a fun project.

True · 06-29-2001, 07:21 AM

In the June/July issue of STS (p.62)you'll find that Replacement pontoons are available through JPW/Black Bear Pontoons in various diameters and lengths check out www.jpwinc.com or www.blackbearpontoons.com. I was thinking about building one from scratch myself seeing as the retail prices are ridiculous.

Good Luck,

True

smilesforu · 06-29-2001, 11:16 PM

Found the machinery Aire uses to weld the materials.
http://www.vinylwelders.com/Single%2...%20Systems.htm

Looks like a spendy toy for a DIYer.
Now I continue the search for the materials [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

SnagMagnet · 06-30-2001, 05:33 AM

Osprey, went to work yesterday and dug threw the McMaster Carr industrial supply catalog. The have all types of tubing connectors including stainless steel. If you guys are intrested I'll scan them and e-mail it to you. If your mig welding your frames I think a stainless steel frame would be swwweeeeetttt. You can also order tubing in just about any size and wall thickness you want. Anybody intrested let me know.... TIGHT LINES......

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: SnagMagnet ]

GoFish · 06-30-2001, 06:37 AM

I once met a guy who was building frames for experimental aircraft using cromoly (sp?) steel tubes. ultra thin walls and tough as hell! He gave me a three foot length that was about 1/2 inch O.D. and told me to try and bend it. Couldn't be done! He showed me the jigs he had made up that gave him enough leverage to bend the stuff. Ever since then I have thought that this material would make a great cat frame. Anybody know more about this stuff?

SnagMagnet · 06-30-2001, 12:01 PM

Forgot to add.... Osprey....If your weld EMT (electrical conduit) That stuff is galvanized and contains zinc and when burned it gives off some nasty fumes.... Be carefull about this....

SnagMagnet · 06-30-2001, 11:52 PM

gofish, I'm certified in it. It's just one of the many forms of mild steel produced. Most mild steel has it's own composition with different elements added. If you take a piece of annealed 4130 Mild steel with a OD of 1" and a wall thickness of .125 you can bend it on your knee with little effort. If you take that piece and heat it to a apple red with a torch and quench it in a bucket of water you'll produce a hardness that a drill bit will have a hard time getting thru it. The down side is Mild Steel is corrosion resitance... it has very little if any. Certian aluminium alloys have the same workablity and heat treating characteristics but the advantage is weight. Personal opinion is if your want to make a custom Cat frame Stainless Steel is the only way to go. You can use a very thin wall tubing that will weight less then a Mild Steel and Aluminium frame. It can be worked with just about the same effort as Mild Steel but it's a heck of alot stronger. It's corrosion isn't an issue with Stainless Steel because it doesn't corrode if welded right. I know this....I've spent many hours behind a hood making critical welds. TIGHT LINES....

Osprey · 07-02-2001, 08:03 AM

Thanks for the concern Snagmagnet.I always do a good prep job before I put the Wire to it.Makes a big difference.
Yes I use a Mig(a Snap-on)I really like it,I enjoy doing alum.but found the added expense does not justify the cost.It takes a lot bigger and thicker alum. to equal the EMT.
by the time you're done You've only saved about 20% in weight but spent at least 40%to 50% more in material costs.Since I use a hand bender at this point ,alum. and Stainless just aren't happening ...yet

The tubes made by Jacks plastic welding are PVC for the average Joe they'll probably work.
I spent years reserching tubes and frames(before I had a computer) so I took a lot of road trips and made a bunch of phone calls,before I designed my frame.
There is a big difference between tubes,materials and designs really effect the performance of these boats ,diameter and rise are critical,you don't realize it till you drive a real Cat.
Kinda like when you park that Hyundia and drive a Vet......You'll be amazed [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

BTW Marty ...we could probably strap some Kegs to a frame for Ya.....shouldn't have a problem doing the Calahwa [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]......Os

Steelheader69 · 07-02-2001, 11:40 PM

Hey Marty, new a guy in a whitewater club that used to build his own frames. He build them mostly out of WOOD!! He's use 4x4's for main slats running parallel with tubes. Then he'd run 1" galvanized cross members. They were interesting frames, but worked well. I was always leary about the flex on wood hitting the class 4's we'd encounter. Never had a snap, but I swear a few times I heard a crack or two.

Yes, there is a big difference in tubes and such. It's funny, the way my boat is designed it's sought after now. You'll rarely see an original Aire Ocelot stay for sale long. They're segmented tubes and are extremely stable. They make the Jaguarundi's look like kids play (my Ocelot is what the Jaguarundi is today, it's a 16' Ocelot).

Well, need to get with Os and get my new frame. Just trying to get a time to get together is the hard part.

smilesforu · 07-03-2001, 12:01 AM

Os I would only give that a try if I drank the Kegs first!! Slap some coatit on the bottom of the kegs and away we go.. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Bet it would work in a class 2 as the ultimate party barge.
I read where Aire use to glue the pontoons together, but switched because of the cost to stay competitive.
Saw a video of the Water Master boats being made and its pretty involved even with a plastic welder. I would still give it a try if I could find materials for a decent price. A would need the rednecK to field test it, since he has a endless supply of duct tape.

Tanner · 07-03-2001, 12:23 PM

I just spent 3 1/2 days floating down a very very low John Day River on my 16' Sotar cat and my "Osprey's Custom Modular EMT Frames". I had the boat loaded with two kids (weighing in collectively at around 300 lbs), myself (another 280 lbs) and aproximately 500 lbs of camping gear, fishing gear and provisons. (We originally packed for 5 days but bailed early because of crappy weather).

We did not hit any big rapids but we we had to drag her over quite a few rocks. We had some pretty good frame stressing hydraulics in one place. Not one tweek, crack or sound out of my "Osprey's Custom EMT Modular Frames". Aside from a few minor design modifications that I would like, I am very impressed with these frames. I also recieved several compliments from other boaters on the unique design and functionality of these "Osprey's Custom EMT Modular Frames".

THE REEL HEY_YALL · 07-03-2001, 12:29 PM

Dude, you gotta tell me about the trip. Oh yeah, what's this I hear about a "Osprey's Custom EMT Modular Frames"? Where can I get me one of those puppies? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Osprey · 07-05-2001, 08:05 AM

Goatboy.....Welcome back [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Marty I think we could hook up some special tubing to the kegs so we can drink em as we float.....should work [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] ....Os

SnagMagnet · 07-05-2001, 01:42 PM

Would love to get my hands on a custom Osprey frame for a few.....little reverse engineering.... might just beable to make a pretty cool little vessel.... See my friends....thats what where experience pays off.... I can weld/cut/bend/fab anything out of any metal known to man but when it comes to design I have to rely on experienced people for a starting point. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Take the sled building project...Started with a set of plans.....it gave the general idea... Next came many many hours on Sundays with a pad of paper and a tape at the local boat dealerships. Took some serious rides in a CustomWeld and a Duckworth... more research and even more research... Love to stretch a tape across a Boulton and Fishrite sled... To sum it all up I now think I shoulda started with a cat frame and worked my way up to a sled [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] .... Who knows...mabe I'll build sleds for a living and just build custom cat frames for a hobby.... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] TIGHT LINES....

[ 07-05-2001: Message edited by: SnagMagnet ]

Osprey · 07-06-2001, 07:09 AM

Hey Snagmagnet, you mentioned pad and pen
you'll also need lots of ductape [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Cat frames are only limited by you're imagination ( add beer here for more input) [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
I've got plans for a paddlewheel style,Ones with Motors,heck how about a sail [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]etc. etc.

Versatility is what it's all about ,thats why I went with a set of the best(Wing tubes,just change frames to fit the need.I'm working on a narrow frame simular to a Kayak set-up for crusing Puget Sound.

I think after this,I'll try Airplanes [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] .....Os