swimbait rod characteristics

bpm2000 · 07-16-2007, 11:29 AM

So at least a few people in here are using swimbaits - I'd like to know what makes a swimbait rod a "swimbait" rod.

My dirty secret in all this is that I will be trying to match up said characteristics with a suitable spinning rod (quit laughing Dave :grin

.

Stiff stick or more bend? Length? etc..

Basically the only possible solutions I've found (that can even handle the weight requirements) are either some variant of a heavy plunkin' salmon/steelhead rod or an inshore rod.
I'm not sure how the flex patterns of these rods work (I'm guessing the STS rods are going to be fairly parabolic) but no clue how inshore rods are. I might just limit myself to throwing some smaller baits (which some would not qualify as a true "swimbait" to meet my spinning requirements) like the mattlures gill/baby bass series for example.

Discuss, enlighten, make fun! But don't tell me to just learn a baitcaster

.

10Key · 07-16-2007, 11:37 AM

From what I've read and heard, a fast action, medium to medium heavy casting rod is what you want to find, something that can handle 20 pound mono. Most guys/gals throw a minimum of a 7 footer, with some going to 8.5'.

I've only thrown swimbaits in the salt, and I used a Loomis 1025c with a Calcutta 250 and 15 mono. The 1025 left a bit to be desired in the backbone category; I would have preferred to use 20 pound, but I dodn't have the line capicity to do so.

Jellyhead · 07-16-2007, 12:55 PM

I'm throwing the heavy swimbaits with a 7' 9" berkley back-bouncing rod. I already had it from salmon fishing, so that's what I'm using. It is perfectly balanced for fishing all day. My other backbounce rod is not balanced well and wears me out.

It is actually easier to learn to cast a baitcaster with a heavy bait. Just turn up the spool tension to where you don't even have to worry about back lashes. As you get used to the feel of it, just start backing off the spool tensoin and using you're thumb a bit to slow the spool. Practice in the park or back yard with lead weights, and then go for it. You will never go back to spinning except the light, finesse stuff.

I'd hate to think about my 5oz. swimbait hurling towards a dock from a spinning outfit and having to reach down and try to grab the line to stop it from exploding on impact (line burns

) Good luck.

Aaron

StickFish · 07-16-2007, 01:22 PM

Swimbait - heck I thought we were talking Tuna. For what its worth, I have a Lamiglas Sardina S-870 spinning and its setup with a large Penn spinning reel and it puts the hurt on Tuna. Basically a lively tip say a medium action and a ton of backbone. Now fresh water bass - I don't have a clue

fishlipper · 07-16-2007, 01:22 PM

Do a search on some of the info Dave Smith has provided. I have thrown swimbaits, and unless you are using the smaller versions, I would think again about a spinning rod. I have pretty much given up on spinning rods, and I would rather throw any bait on a bait cast real. I do use the spinning rods, but as little as possible. I believe you have much more control with the baitcaster, and unless you can't cast one or afford one, don't even consider it for Swim Baits.

My

bpm2000 · 07-16-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishlipper

I have thrown swimbaits, and unless you are using the smaller versions, I would think again about a spinning rod.

Lets assume I am throwing smaller versions then just to keep the spinning hope alive for a spell. Think 1~3oz baits like mattlures, shellcracker, wake jrs, etc. (some of the bigger baits and their pricetags are definitely something I am leery of right now anyways).

fishlipper · 07-16-2007, 03:21 PM

I am sorry for telling you to just learn a baitcaster. I suppose you could throw 1-3 oz on a spinning rod, just not sure why you would want to? Baitcasters are so easy to use, especially if you are using larger baits. Its the small light baits that are hard to throw. It has nothing to do with the rods, but all to do with the reels. Have you seen the size of the spinning reels that will hold any 20lb line? It is tough enough throwing them with a heavy rod and decent size baitcaster. I am not the expert, just going on what I have done and seen. Although, maybe you would become a spinning rod swimbait pioneer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpm2000

Lets assume I am throwing smaller versions then just to keep the spinning hope alive for a spell. Think 1~3oz baits like mattlures, shellcracker, wake jrs, etc. (some of the bigger baits and their pricetags are definitely something I am leery of right now anyways).

bpm2000 · 07-16-2007, 03:46 PM

Honestly I planned on using braid if this plan ever came to fruit so line diameter/reel size isn't too big a deal. I have used some rather large reels for saltwater applications, and while it was no 2500 finesse fest, it wasn't so bad either.

thx for the viewpoints everyone

10Key · 07-16-2007, 03:47 PM

Oops, I didn't touch on the spinning gear in my post. Throwing 1-3oz. baits on a spinning outfit is going to be tiring. Most spinning equipment made to handle 1 - 3 oz. is large and bulky. Like the previous posters have said, a baitcasting set-up will suit you much better for this situtation.

Hunt'nFish · 07-23-2007, 01:15 PM

Jellyhead,
Are you talking the Ramzey 1-4oz 15-50lb?
I have a couple of those that I use for TUNA! and the 5-6" Wildeyes. Flings them nicely....but a 9-13" bait, I think it may be a bit light in the tip.
I also have some true back bouncers good to 8oz that I think might be more appropriate for BIG SB's. But they are old low modulus graphite and a bit heavy for casting all day.
Your thoughts.....
Hunt'nFish

Jellyhead · 07-23-2007, 01:44 PM

I'll have to check on the model. I do know that it has lost about 1.5" of tip due to a car door

So, it may not be as quick tipped as a "stock" model. I'm primarily casting a BBZ-1, not sure exactly how much that weighs, But it fishes nicely on this rod. I wouldn't cast much more than that, though.

Aaron

bpm2000 · 07-23-2007, 06:44 PM

Im pretty sure the BBZ's are 4~5 oz. Thats about as heavy as I plan to throw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellyhead

I'll have to check on the model. I do know that it has lost about 1.5" of tip due to a car door

So, it may not be as quick tipped as a "stock" model. I'm primarily casting a BBZ-1, not sure exactly how much that weighs, But it fishes nicely on this rod. I wouldn't cast much more than that, though.

Aaron

IslandBass · 07-24-2007, 07:10 PM

BPM,

Why don't you just take the plunge and get an Okuma Swimbait rod?? They are only $89.00 and these are the rods that mattlures recommends.

I suppose that a salmon/steelhead rod can be used in a pinch, but when possible, I try to get the right tool for the job.

At this time, swimbait fishing doesn't interest me but I know I'll get around to it some day.

Check out the TT forum. They have a new swimbait forum where you can get answers from those who are good with this technique.

Sometimes on those salmon rods, a range of say 1/2 - 4 oz. can sometimes translate to maybe 1/2 - 2oz for casting and 2-4oz for bottom bouncing. I have an Okuma steelhead rod with those same weight ratings, and when I tried tossing a 3 oz weight just to test the rod's castibility, I thought I was going to break that rod. If a swimbait rod says that it will toss 1-4 oz lures, I think you can rest assured it will toss a 4 oz bait with ease.

With regard to baitcasting, I can teach you how to handle one in 5 minutes flat. I guarantee I can show you the basic mechanics and minimize your birdsnests in 10 casts. I taught my daughter when she was 6 1/2 and the first thing she said after her first cast was, "Papi, this is so much easier to use than the other (spinning) kind of reel. This one is way better." All I can say to that is, "That's my little girl." The downside is that she claimed my green curado as hers now, but I'm cool with it since I have a Curado D.

Good luck.

Have you been to Lake Union lately?

Like I said, if we ever go fishing, I'll get you tossing a bc reel in no time flat. Once you get it down, you will see why most would prefer casting reels for swimbaits.

bpm2000 · 07-25-2007, 09:13 AM

Hey Island

Yea I've pretty much written off the spinning idea and will be casting at some point in the future.

If I had a car or something I'd be using the okuma right now but I am trying to find a 2-pc solution. This has been a PITA to come by - I'm either looking at maybe a custom if I think I can stomach the cost or maybe having someone cut down a 1-pc to a 2-pc rod.

Any rod builders here? How much would that run?

And Ive not fished Union lately, just a couple of times on Washington. You?

Jellyhead · 07-25-2007, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpm2000

Hey Island

Yea I've pretty much written off the spinning idea and will be casting at some point in the future.

If I had a car or something I'd be using the okuma right now but I am trying to find a 2-pc solution. This has been a PITA to come by - I'm either looking at maybe a custom if I think I can stomach the cost or maybe having someone cut down a 1-pc to a 2-pc rod.

Any rod builders here? How much would that run?

And Ive not fished Union lately, just a couple of times on Washington. You?

One thing you may notice is that on most rods, the weight rating goes down quite a bit in a two-piece construction. I assume the joint in the rod, lessens it's capacity.

Aaron

IslandBass · 07-26-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpm2000

Hey Island

Yea I've pretty much written off the spinning idea and will be casting at some point in the future.

If I had a car or something I'd be using the okuma right now but I am trying to find a 2-pc solution. This has been a PITA to come by - I'm either looking at maybe a custom if I think I can stomach the cost or maybe having someone cut down a 1-pc to a 2-pc rod.

Any rod builders here? How much would that run?

And Ive not fished Union lately, just a couple of times on Washington. You?

Ah, I see. I have not fished either lake lately, but the last time I fished was in California last Sunday. If I told you how many bass I caught, you wouldn't believe me. I thought I died and gone to heaven. Practically every cast caught a bass.

There is an Okuma steelhead rod, the one I mentioned and it has the following stats:

Lure Weight: 1/2 - 4 oz
Length: 8.5', two piece, casting
Model: Celilo

This is one of two rods I use for jigging buzz bombs for pink salmon off the dock. I have seen this rod at Joes ($49), Sportco ($35), and OE ($30 something).

-ib

Dave Smith · 07-26-2007, 05:40 AM

bpm- I can take no more of this! I have a two piece salmon rod- just come and get it- use it as long as you want- if I decide to go salmon fishing a really need this very rod- I'll let you know. PM me- you're still going to need a reel, though. Dave

bpm2000 · 07-26-2007, 11:04 AM

haha thanks for the generous offer Dave - but I've actually just decided to pony up and get a rod made (hopefully ill double duty it for some jetty/surf fishing or something too). And yes, it will be convential/casting, and not spinning

bpm2000 · 07-26-2007, 11:10 AM

Now here's my new dilemma:

Shimano Cardiff A301 vs Okuma Induron IDx 250LX?

Decisions decisions...

(if I retrieve L-handed w/ spinning gear I would do the same for casting right? man I feel like a total newbie all over again here).

Jellyhead · 07-26-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpm2000

Now here's my new dilemma:

Shimano Cardiff A301 vs Okuma Induron IDx 250LX?

Decisions decisions...

(if I retrieve L-handed w/ spinning gear I would do the same for casting right? man I feel like a total newbie all over again here).

I would definitly go the left hand retrieve route with baitcasting gear. I could never understand switching hands from casting to reeling

Aaron

bpm2000 · 07-26-2007, 12:16 PM

yea I figured it would be a no-brainer but i see so many people, and good anglers at that, do it so I was a bit confused.

MXRacer105 · 07-26-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellyhead

I would definitly go the left hand retrieve route with baitcasting gear. I could never understand switching hands from casting to reeling

Aaron

I agree completely, I have never understood why you would want to switch hands after every cast....

fishkisser · 07-26-2007, 08:59 PM

Some of us old folks had baitcasters called "knuckle busters " to learn on ...besides having no freespool or drag to speak of the handle was always on the right side ... Usually spinning wildly when a fish made a run hence the name .. Sometimes old habits die hard.

Hunt'nFish · 07-27-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpm2000

Now here's my new dilemma:

Shimano Cardiff A301 vs Okuma Induron IDx 250LX?
Decisions decisions...

Quantum 1421...hey if I can land TUNA with one, it outta work for bass.

Hunt'nFish

bassin newbie · 07-27-2007, 06:31 PM

gosh, I thought more people used righty...FYI baitcasters are ade to turn so the handle is up when casting, they cast farther and it feels good.

FishHiker · 08-01-2007, 11:24 AM

Ok now everybody's just gettin off on a rabbit trail here. This wasn't supposed to be a debate on left and right handed baitcasting rods. It was about Swimbait's and Swimbait Rods. I throw allot of Swimbaits, and I use the heavy 7'11" Okuma Swimbait Rod. It works great, you need a long rod to git enough leverage to make a big lob cast, and it helps ease up the pain in your arm from casting repeatedly all day. I've taken begginers out fishin with me who need to use a spinning rod, and I've just matched em up with a fairly light bait. Mission Fish makes a some real good ones, I'm not sure what it's called but there's one that's designed like a big fluke with a 5/0 or 6/0 EWG hook. It's got a little weight in the head and a little kicker tail. You can cast it on just about anything if your careful, and I usually get about an 80% hookup percentage, which is pretty good for a swimbait.