Layout Boats

water and sky · 07-14-2007, 07:22 AM

This year I'm going to add a layout boat to the arsenal.

I'd like to get some info before the WFF in case an opportunity for a good buy presents itself there.

The Momarsh Fatboy DP looks good, so does the 10' Aquapod. Can't rule out the little Marsh Rat with it's light weight and low cost.

So, I'm looking for some pros and cons. I'm open to suggestions about other craft.

Also, what about towing a small "sled" with decoys and gear.

Tom

Dave Smith · 07-14-2007, 09:39 AM

None of those are layouts???!!! I would go for the MLB supermag! If you want a marsh boat, I would go for a fiberglass Marshrat (not a rotomolded plastic one, unless you are just going to be in knee-deep water and need to portage alot). Aquapods will out track a Marsh rat and are lighter, but I think the rats hunt better. I haven't been in a fatboy, but Worth M. has one and really likes it. Dave

water and sky · 07-14-2007, 09:51 AM

Thank you Dave. I looked up the MLB supermag and now I see what you mean. I am looking for a "marsh boat".

Your comments on tracking and on boat materials are the kind of info that I'm looking for.

MarshBum · 07-14-2007, 10:47 AM

I have a Fatboy... love it. It's bigger and does more, which I need, than an Aqua Pod or a Marsh Rat (we call them Nutria).

The fatboy allows me to put a 3.5 hp outboard on the transom and get to where I'm going... it can tow fine.

We played around with an 8' Aqua Pod and found them to track terribly and they don't ride chop well at all given the short length. Go longer if you can. A friend of mine has a Marsh Rat and loves it because he can strap it on the back of his sled.

I don't have a bigger boat, so the fatboy lets me do pretty much everything I want to. The boat is easy to hide in the marsh and we've even used it for true layout hunting.

Geoff

Dave Smith · 07-14-2007, 10:52 AM

If you are all about killing and killing close, forget boats for a minute and think about blinds. Which boat can you HIDE the best, with no dark spots or openings? That's the one you want if you are a killer- here's my marsh rat- I'll post pics of my blackjack when I get it cammo'ed.

water and sky · 07-14-2007, 12:30 PM

Dave,

I would love to see that rat in more detail. Is that a motor under the gull?

Geoff,

If the FB weighs around 90lb then I should be able to drag it around, without the hernia, and strap it to the tender boat. Is that your experience?

Tom

Dave Smith · 07-14-2007, 08:47 PM

Yea, that's an electric motor with the shaft cut WAY down. I have a ROLLS battery so I can go a long time and at about a fast walking speed. I didn't mind rowing, but I hated rowing against current and if you hunt tides, you'll be against the current on the way out on the back (a few exceptions). Plus the motor made more room for decoys because I didn't need clearance for the oars. I will portage it up to a hundred yards if it's flat and less if it's not. You are welcome to come and look at it. It's currently at the decoy shop but they asked me to get it out of their way so I will have it back here in North Plains soon. Dave btw: have you seen the new FA brand boat?? spendy but very nice and roomy, too.

MikeT · 07-14-2007, 11:18 PM

If you're thinking of towing a marsh boat with decoys, guns, etc. I'd suggest you NOT do that.

I've got a 10' Aqua Pod that I like fine, but have found that it's very unstable when being towed. On more than one occasion it's ridden up the wake and flipped over. Rather than tow it I lay mine across the gunnels of my big boat and strap it down.

I use mine to paddle into hunting spots, and as long as the trip is about 1/2 mile or less the paddle isn't bad. Beyond that distance it becomes a chore.

If you're planning to hunt out of a marsh boat with a dog on board, I'd suggest you give that some serious thought first. I've tried it, and found it to be unsafe for the dog (who tends to jump up at just the wrong moment), and I also worry about damaging her hearing by firing over her head. I did it a couple times and decided it's not worth the risk.

The 10' Pod has just enough room for me, 2 dozen decoys, a blind bag, gun and dog. It's light enough that I can load it on a roof rack by myself, but at around 70 pounds it's a pain to carry very far.

A friend has the 8' Pod, and it's too small to carry much gear, and too short to paddle easily. I wouldn't touch anything shorter than 10'.

BTW, Dave's right on about paddling against the tide. Tried that once; won't do it again.

Mike

BrotherWolf · 07-15-2007, 10:46 AM

Me personaly I would go with a 4 rivers layout or a fatboy

I have had a few layout boats starting with a Bobcat mag 1 I loved that boat but the problem with it was that if your were pulling it across a mud flat it would suction itself to the mud because the bottom was so flat and there was no room for a dog.

I built a Kara layout about 7 years ago the only issue I had with that is that it was 2 freaking heavy Ya had to have a boat ramp for it. alot of that was my fault because I built it bigger than the plans called for.

The marsh ratt was next it also was a great boat for what it is but I couldnt get my shoulders to tuck inside the boat with out hitting the edges of the cockpit and also really no room for a dog unless you had them ontop or between your legs/feet. This boat is very very close to the 4 rivers small boat.

Then came the 12 ft aqua pod.......now I had the room I wanted to have my dog at my feet but not on top of them or in the middle...great boat but I didnt like the plate you had to put on them to mount a trolling motor. I just dont like motors sticking out on the side. It just aint right to me.

Next came the 4 rivers 13' ft boat after 9 years of settling with other layouts I finally broke down and got the boat I have always wanted. Now I have plenty of room to have the dog in the boat or up on the dog deck. It is one of the most stable layouts you will ever find. You can use a motor, kayak paddle or push pole it tracks great. I will have it at the waterfowl fall festival.

If you plan on towing your layout DO NOT put anyting but bags of deks in it and make sure there strapped down well...hehe

BrotherWolf · 07-15-2007, 10:58 AM

something we use to do in Missouri
ever year we would have a boat day where ever one would bring there layouts out so other people could look at them and paddle them around to see witch boat they like etc to get a better idea of what the boat was like.

MarshBum · 07-15-2007, 11:26 AM

Some more Fatboy info...

We have towed up to three of them behind a tender boat with no problems. We usually throw the decoys bags in the boats for some ballast. The Fatboys come with a tow loop under the bow with helps to keep the nose from digging into the water. They are heavy enough that they won't flap around wildly like some other boats we've towed. The key is to getting the tow rope just the perfect length so the boats ride on the backside of the wake and keep pointed up. You can go much faster this way.

We've been able to carry an outboard, 1 gallon fuel tank, deep cycle battery (for lights we hard wired in), blind bag, 3 or 4 dozen decoys, gun, dog and fastgrass bundles. Most of the gear gets strapped on the deck up at the bow with bungee cords. There's a lot of deck space.

The boats are easy to paddle, but the motors do better work

I put the fatboy on top of my Pathfinder by myself. I have hauled it fair distances with a simple kayak carrier (wouldn't be able to carry it very far). I have also dragged it a fair way... easiest on frozen mud and grass

For something like this, I would try to have a look at as many different boats as I could. You're welcome to come check out my fatboy anytime I'm home, and I'm sure the other guys on here wouldn't mind you "kicking some tires" either. This way, you can at least pick them up, crawl inside, and get a real good feel for each boat. Then you can buy with a little more confidence. It would be tough to get them all out on the water... but not impossible (wink, wink, nudge, nudge... I like BrotherWolfs "idea" of rounding them all up at a lake).

Anyway, hope I answered some the questions.

Geoff

QH's Paw · 07-15-2007, 11:27 AM

BW, did you get your new outfit in time to use it last season? If so, how did you feel about the dog getting back on the boat? How is it for putting in the water? It seems like you pretty much have to have a trailer because of the length more then anything. I'm hoping I get a chance to make it to the WaterFowl Festival. I'm definately interested in checking your boat out.
Right now we have a 10' aquapod that I have been able to carry fairly long distances. We also drag it behind the sled. If we're going longer distance and, want to make better time, the pod fits right down the center of the boat no problems.
Did you purchase the 4rivers from the dealer in Monmouth? If so, do they keep the accessories in stock at their shop.
Anyway, looks like you've got a sweet setup with lots of possibilities.

MarshBum · 07-15-2007, 11:29 AM

Thought I would add some pics...

Thought I had more pics. I'll try to dig some more up if I remember next time I'm back at my main computer.

Geoff

BrotherWolf · 07-15-2007, 12:47 PM

Some pictures after I put some make up on her.
There is a flip up blind up under the cover that Im working on. The cover will be just for trailering to help keep stuff from flying out heading down the highway and help keep some of that h20 out.

<non-sponsor link removed>

BrotherWolf · 07-15-2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QH's Paw

BW, did you get your new outfit in time to use it last season? If so, how did you feel about the dog getting back on the boat? How is it for putting in the water? It seems like you pretty much have to have a trailer because of the length more then anything. I'm hoping I get a chance to make it to the WaterFowl Festival. I'm definately interested in checking your boat out.
Right now we have a 10' aquapod that I have been able to carry fairly long distances. We also drag it behind the sled. If we're going longer distance and, want to make better time, the pod fits right down the center of the boat no problems.
Did you purchase the 4rivers from the dealer in Monmouth? If so, do they keep the accessories in stock at their shop.
Anyway, looks like you've got a sweet setup with lots of possibilities.

No I didnt have this last season I had the 12' aqua pod I got at last years waterfowl festival. I bought this back in May a friend was in Missouri and picked it up for me. Im not real sure what Rob has out at his place?.

When I lived in Missouri I never got one because every one that I hunted with always had a extra one. Every one and there mother that hunts in Mo has a layout it seemed like. Alot Of them had the 5hp? mud motors on them.

The only reason I never got one after moving back to Oregon was because of the shipping on them. I kicked myself in the arse many times for not getting one before we moved.

For putting the dog up on the dog deck is great if you have a dog that is steady other wise they would put them up in the front of the cockpit. And yes a trailer is the best way to haul one around. some of the trailer I have seen would hold 4 boats.

<non-sponsor link removed>

Capin' Dan · 07-15-2007, 03:48 PM

MB, Do you put covers on the fat boys. Also how long did you have to wait for yours after you ordered it. What are the extra's I would need to get not counting motors. Also you said you cut down you trolling motor?? how? Can you stand in it is it real stable?

BrotherWolf · 07-15-2007, 08:30 PM

Dan,
check out this page
<non-sponsor link removed>

MarshBum · 07-15-2007, 09:35 PM

I think I waited no more than a month. We ordered three at the same time and they were all delivered freight. I still remember the night we picked them up... what a start.

It was Dave that cut down his trolling motor... I would guess he cut the shaft down. I'm sure Dave can chime in on it though.

The extras... I added a painted 2x6 on the transom so the motor fit a little better. The board was glued to the transom. I added a piece of door weather stripping with some constructive adhesive around the lip of the cockpit. This was an unfinished fiberglass edge that seemed to catch everything that moved within 2 inches of it. It cut my hands a few times too. I added a permanent 360 white light in the back (hardwired). The mast comes off and can be stowed. I rarely use it. I also added a hardwired green/red bow light. The wiring comes back to a four flat trailer light connector that attaches to a box with a small deep cycle battery. I also added some cleats and nylon eyelets. The nylon eyelets are used to attach about a dozen or so bungee cords. I also sprayed on my registration numbers... need to be registered with the motor. It sounds like a lot... but it really didn't feel like it.

I can stand in it. I have often stand in it and "pole" the boat along. I'd say it's very stable. It's a deceivingly long beam.

I don't cover the boat. When it's on the car, I take the plug out so rain water can drain. In the marsh the grass and whatnot covers up the cockpit well.

I've been very happy with it.

Geoff

Dave Smith · 07-16-2007, 08:47 AM

water and sky: ask yourself what you want this boat to do and then decide, honestly which boat will do it. Just getting "low" is not enough. Getting low looks great from your buddy's perspective viewing across the bay, but it means almost nothing from a bird's eye view. Getting low AND being perfectly, PERFECTLY hidden is the most fun you can have outdoors. If any of these roomier boats can be completely grassed and you can get them into the tight places or across the tough places, buy one. If a dog is a consideration, I would say to bag the marsh boat altogether and get a Bankes or a TDB. If you really want a low boat AND want to have your dog, check out the Black Jack from Arthur Armstrong (TDB). If you want to see one, come over and check it out. The marshes and Bay's are full of guys paddling around in ungrassed boats trying to hide next to a weed. A small, full-grassed boat that you can occasionally pull up on the bank and use like an eliminator is so much fun! Dave

MarshBum · 07-16-2007, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Smith

A small, full-grassed boat that you can occasionally pull up on the bank and use like an eliminator is so much fun! Dave

I second this and pretty much everything else Dave has said... except for those of you doing this in the places I hunt. For those people, small boats are not fun, a huge frustration, and they generally don't work worth spit.

Geoff

BrotherWolf · 07-16-2007, 03:40 PM

My boat will be in full drag at the waterfowl festival.
no matter what type of layout boat ya get its got to be grassed up when hunting.

Dave have you ever got the chance to hunt out of a 4 rivers boat ?... I think you would like it. The black jacks are a kick _ _ _ boats. Some day I will have me a TDB 21' boat... I can only dream about it till the kids are out of the house.

Tvfowlhunter · 07-18-2007, 03:48 PM

Marsh Rat is the way to go!

TVFOWLHUNTER

water and sky · 07-18-2007, 04:53 PM

TVFOWLHUNTER,

Could you please elaborate?

Capin' Dan · 07-18-2007, 05:08 PM

Anyone ever use an otter stealth 2000????
What do you think?

Jellyhead · 07-18-2007, 07:54 PM

Dave,

That pic of you're marshrat looks like how I grass my scull boat in full on stealth mode! "Don't mind me, I'm just a grassy log with seagulls floating on it"

I built a blind similar on my marshrat this last winter too. Used camo netting and burlap, and blended quite well.

Water and Sky,

I cant say enough about my 'glass marshrat. One of the most versitle hunting crafts available. They do work well in open water like an MLB too, if you need it to. I ran a huge open water spread on gang lines and just anchored the MR in the spread using a tender to pick up birds and lay out longlines. The bluebills and cans never knew what hit em. Plus the marshrat will take some scary heavy water that I'd never even consider in an MLB.

Good luck,

Whatever you buy.

Aaron

MarshBum · 07-18-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capin' Dan

Anyone ever use an otter stealth 2000????
What do you think?

I looked at this boat very closely when I made my purchase. I purchased the Fatboy... so... you know... that tells you how I made my decision.

I was told once... "Friends never let friends buy plastic boats".

I can see why now

Geoff

water and sky · 07-18-2007, 08:49 PM

OK, so after a couple of weeks thinking about this and fielding some sage advice it appears that a guy needs multiple boats to satisfy the variety of hunts.

A perfect example. Today, on my way to work I see a little sneak boat in someone's driveway. I stop to eyeball it. The owner sees me and comes out. He shows me his boat and then the "collection" in and aruond his shop. The 18' sled, driftboat, pontoon boat, 21' TDB and the 13 sneak boats, some near new and some quite old, Dang! Now I get the big picture. Instead of getting just one craft get as many as money, time, space and the wife will allow.

I appreciate all of the input. I'd take more. Maybe at the next DA meeting or the WFF.

Tom

MarshBum · 07-18-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by water and sky

...I appreciate all of the input. I'd take more. Maybe at the next DA meeting...

There's a DA meeting next Thursday, July 26 at The Decoy in Linnton. Just an FYI in case the sticky at the top of the hunting forum is overlooked.

Geoff

QH's Paw · 07-19-2007, 04:12 AM

OK, so BW says he'll have his rig decked out at the WWF for everyone else to see. What about the rest of you who have contributed to this thread. Will any of you have your outfits at the show. Seems like a good gathering spot for those of us who still need 2 or 3 more skiffs/layout boats. A guy can never have too many toys.:grin:

MarshBum · 07-19-2007, 07:24 AM

I *might* be able to get my boat down to the OWF. I'll be camping so I'll be around pretty much all weekend.

Geoff

DTSportsman · 07-19-2007, 07:38 AM

For those who CAN'T bring them there is a thread where you can show them off. Lets see'um. I'll bump it to the top.

ogrejager · 07-19-2007, 09:21 AM

I'll be bringing two boats to the festival.

BrotherWolf · 07-19-2007, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by water and sky

! Now I get the big picture. Instead of getting just one craft get as many as money, time, space and the wife will allow.Tom

You got it brother....To me a layout boat is like a gun you have to get what fits you and your needs....all the boats that have been talked about on this thread are great boats...well maybe not the otter stealth 2000

BrotherWolf · 07-19-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellyhead

Dave,

how I grass my scull boat in full on stealth mode! "Don't mind me, I'm just a grassy log with seagulls floating on it"

Aaron

a scull boat grassed?....HMM I didnt think you would have to grass a skull boat...how well does that work compared to not being grassed??

Jellyhead · 07-20-2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherWolf

a scull boat grassed?....HMM I didnt think you would have to grass a skull boat...how well does that work compared to not being grassed??

It works just as well if not better on geese. Geese sit alot higher on the water and can see in the boat better. An extra 2" of grass lets me peek out a bit and hide my rowing motions. Plus on the columbia, when a ship goes by, you often bob up and down 2-3 feet on rollers, I've had canada be actually higher than me on a swell and spook, but it was too late for them because they were under 10yds

p The birds don't know what the boat is, grassed or not, as long as they can't see you.

Aaron

BrotherWolf · 07-20-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellyhead

It works just as well if not better on geese. Geese sit alot higher on the water and can see in the boat better. An extra 2" of grass lets me peek out a bit and hide my rowing motions. Plus on the columbia, when a ship goes by, you often bob up and down 2-3 feet on rollers, I've had canada be actually higher than me on a swell and spook, but it was too late for them because they were under 10yds

p The birds don't know what the boat is, grassed or not, as long as they can't see you.

Aaron

kewl 1O yards....LOL...ummm did it have a head left?....hehe.....I would like to do the sneak on the geese on the willy

BrotherWolf · 07-20-2007, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarshBum

I *might* be able to get my boat down to the OWF. I'll be camping so I'll be around pretty much all weekend.Geoff

Do you know if Ira is going to be at the festival???

Dave Smith · 07-20-2007, 05:23 PM

No skulling for me- I wouldn't sneak a field, water is no different- maybe worse. Definately a good way to blow them out of the area and make them super jumpy. They can come to me or not- it's their choice and up to me to do my work. Dave

MarshBum · 07-20-2007, 06:00 PM

But Dave, surely some times the scull is the right ticket. Especially with ducks early in the season that will be "re charged" with new birds coming in from the north.

Geoff

Jellyhead · 07-20-2007, 10:28 PM

Dave,

It's no different than decoy hunting as far as educating birds, if you do it right. You never scull big rafts or flocks. You have to set up the hunt right, or don't attempt the scull. It's very challenging, and a great "trophy" method. I know scullers that kill tufted ducks, emporer geese and eurasions every year in oregon. But for every 10 people that buy a scull boat, only one or less will stick with it. It's not the silver bullet people think it is. Just a different hunt, and usually no competition. And when you get a pair of geese coming into a field mid day on the lower columbia, you might think of old Jellyhead out on the river, he probably picked off one or two of there buddies, and got them flying

Oh yeah, you can sleep in and be a sculler:smile:

P.S. Dave, I don't honestly believe you could "run them out" of an area like ours. All of the major roosts are protected. I usually only pick off birds at mid day open water "loafing" areas and beaches.

Aaron

Dave Smith · 07-21-2007, 08:38 AM

Geese are kinda funny- they just don't handle being snuck up on and shot on the water very well- it's like the water is their one sancuary- their one safe zone and when they get surprised here, they really get freaked out. The idea of them going to one of your buddies decoys after being skulled is not impossible- it has happened to me, but it's not very likely. Geese shot at in a field is a whole different story, as long as they have that safe place they can go back to. How often do you shoot at geese in a field and have them go to another field? Most likely, they go right back to the roost- the safe zone. Now ducks might be another story- he he. Besides, do we really want to see me try to manuever a skull? For you guys that can do it:

Dave