At risk

[Bill Monroe]

And at the risk of starting another GW debate...

On a recent turn through British Columbia, I was dumbstruck at the widespread devastation to forests there, apparently by a pine beetle.

A forested area easily twice the size of Oregon is heavily freckled by dead trees.

Many areas have interspersed birch, aspen and cottonwood, but many don't.

If/when their dry spell comes, it's building toward a fire disaster of potentially unbelievable dimensions.

And this it not simply a let-it-burn kind of thing...I cannot imagine any possible success in trying to put out such a blaze...

[Jennie@ifish]

Ish... That doesn't sound good at all.

Good morning, Bill. 4:15 and you are thinking about forest fires?

and... did you mean "administrative debate?"



Jen

[BCF]

Originally Posted by Jennie@ifish

Ish... That doesn't sound good at all.

Good morning, Bill. 4:15 and you are thinking about forest fires?

and... did you mean "administrative debate?"



Jen

C'mon Jennie, let's not get political.(LOL) You know Bill meant garbage workers and they don't really have a dog in the "destruction of the trees and forests" fight.

The proliferation of insects in our ecosystems certainly does track with the overall health [ both good & bad],of our forests and trees. Stressed plants in my garden don't seem to be able to resist infestations very well either.

BCF

[baltz526]

you should see the area around the gearhart wilderness here in oregon. it has been devistated by pine beetles on some ridges and mountains it looks to be about 90% of the trees are dead dying. the area most effected is from the chewaucan river on the east, hwy 140 on the south, beatty on the west and summer lake on the north. the area is a couple hundred square miles. the areas with the least effected trees are thinned or tree farm areas. all the native stands are wiped out or soon to be.

[JustCallMeDave]

Honestly, I have no idea how Mother Nature ran the joint prior to us getting here.

[3riversBob]

Honestly, I have no idea how Mother Nature ran the joint prior to us getting here.

Bob

[Bait Bucket]

Southern Pine Beetle.... Nasty little critters that have invested a lot of our forests. They have completely destroyed a lot of the soft wood forests back east. They don't eat the wood. They eat the paper-like matter just under the bark and that kills the trees.

[jvp]

Originally Posted by baltz526

you should see the area around the gearhart wilderness here in oregon. it has been devistated by pine beetles on some ridges and mountains it looks to be about 90% of the trees are dead dying. the area most effected is from the chewaucan river on the east, hwy 140 on the south, beatty on the west and summer lake on the north. the area is a couple hundred square miles. the areas with the least effected trees are thinned or tree farm areas. all the native stands are wiped out or soon to be.

can't see it as well driving down 97 since most of the dead trees have fallen. the whole east side from kf to bend has been infested for 20+ years at least.

isn"t it some asian beetle?

[RBfisher]

The problems we now face on this planet are because we won't let nature run it's course.
We always have to be in control of things and we all know how well we do that.
Maybe one day mankind will wake up and realize we will never be as good at control as nature is.
We have a compulsion to control and in this compulsion we think we have the right/obligation to do it. Man was never granted the right, man just gave it to himself.
A lot of people have to be able to rationalize/justify/prove everything beyond what they are capable to accept in their own mind.
That is why we have so many belief's in this world and so little faith in anything.
Just remember even though you might not be able to understand or comprehend some things to your satisfaction does not mean you need to fix it and I am not just talking about a bug infested forest.
Common sense and wisdom come from God. Knowledge comes from man's teachings and ideas.
We will never control nature and the sooner we accept this the sooner this planet and all things on it will get better.
BTW If I were talking strictly to believers I would substitute God for the word nature in this reply, but that is a personal thing.

[Queeg]

Fire = insect control.

Fire suppression = system out of balance.

Ya almost might as well light it and get it over with ... maybe in the fall, not today.

[Joe Schwab]

Ahh yes! I remember distinctly how the present administration interfered in the Spruce beetle infestation that started on the Kenai in 1995. Those rascals were really planning in advance. p

The ones that were in power at the time had no idea they were being used so badly!

Tongue in cheek! Tongue in cheek! Sarcasm!

[BCF]

Originally Posted by Queeg

Fire = insect control.

Fire suppression = system out of balance.

Ya almost might as well light it and get it over with ... maybe in the fall, not today.

But what about my million dollar cabin I built in the middle of the forest? Will your tax dollars be used to save my vacation home? I am not looking for anything special ......mind you........just a half dozen helicoptor water drops and a couple of C130 fly overs......after all I pay taxes too.

BCF

[JustCallMeDave]

We'll just relocate your home to some oceanfront property on a shifting dune.

[matttheduck]

I'm just glad that British Columbia isn't doing anything anti-environmental, such as salvaging the dead trees to prevent a devastating fire in that area. Having a burn-through to sterilize that area so that nothing will live or grow there for a few decades is a great pro-environment solution.

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by matttheduck

I'm just glad that British Columbia isn't doing anything anti-environmental, such as salvaging the dead trees to prevent a devastating fire in that area. Having a burn-through to sterilize that area so that nothing will live or grow there for a few decades is a great pro-environment solution.

I'm not sure if your sarcasm lies in the salvage comment or the "nothing will live or grow there for a few decades". Both?

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by matttheduck

I'm just glad that British Columbia isn't doing anything anti-environmental, such as salvaging the dead trees to prevent a devastating fire in that area. Having a burn-through to sterilize that area so that nothing will live or grow there for a few decades is a great pro-environment solution.

Burn it in the winter.

[OceanBlue]

[quote=Queeg;1587377]Fire = insect control.

[quote]

Doesn't fire also = forest rejuvenation? I thought that's how baby trees were made.


Of course, there are many sides to this and much to consider. Nearby population, being just one. No one likes to see widespread devastation, but it looks like that's already happened in one sense.

[foxer]

I think what the real issue is that we as humans think everything should revolve around our life cycle. Yes, mother nature will take care of most problems but humans dont want to wait that long. Trees are renewable, even old growth. If its infected, let it burn.

[Bill Monroe]

It's hard to imagine this is simply nature at work.

We've altered forests in so many ways it's possible/probable this is a result as well. Sure, fires cleansed forests of old, but I can't believe forests of old had such widespread devastation.

Guess I'll reserve judgment until I can read up a little more...Someone here have any empirical evidence about what's happening up there?

[drhall99]

Unfortunately, our fire suppression efforts have led to this kind of situation. Historically, forests had occasional fires that would clear the underbrush and burn the sick and weakend trees. For years, we have worked to stop forest fires of all kinds and that has allowed the beetle population to explode all across the west. Unfortunately, the easiest way to solve the problem is a fire. Salvage logging could be done ahead of time to help minimize the size of the fire and to help direct it but then you are risking spreading the beetles to other areas when the logs are moved. Situations like this are very tricky and the reality is that by the time we figure out how to handle it, it will likely have burned already. My opinion is that setting up a temporary mill in the area of the infestations and salvage log, then controlled burns to mop up the little buggers.

[Tilla]

Originally Posted by Bill Monroe

It's hard to imagine this is simply nature at work.

We've altered forests in so many ways it's possible/probable this is a result as well. Sure, fires cleansed forests of old, but I can't believe forests of old had such widespread devastation.

Guess I'll reserve judgment until I can read up a little more...Someone here have any empirical evidence about what's happening up there?

Forests of old rarely experienced widespread devasting fires. The occured more frequently and less severe due to smaller feul buildup. Fire supression has allowed the build up of feul and the beetles are just a symptom of a unhealthy forest we have created.
This information has been in the books for decades (my focus 30 yrs ago in college, hurts when I say that). Just isn't popular with the Smokey the Bear followers.
You can look under Fire Ecology or study the Yellowstone Fire where the Forest Service has created an educational enviroment for the public.
Fire Ecologists get excited watching forests starting their cycle over again like they have since the beginning of time. It's a cycle.

[FireCat]

An important method of prevention involves forest management. In general,because the pine beetle prefers forests that are old and dense. Managing the forest by creating diversity in age and structure with result in a healthy forest that will be more resilient and,thus, less vulnerable to the pine beetle, now nature has a way to do its own thing if a forest is to thick and dence, or has sickly trees
The pine beetle comes along and takes care old the sickly or over dence forest the trees then die. Mother nature causes a forest fire to clean up the mess, and thus fire will sterilize the soil and get rid of the mess.

Then the cycle starts all over again. Yes some good trees get taken out, just like cancer in the human body, you may have to loose healthy tissue to get the bad.

The problem is Man need to clean up after the beetle desease or fire will distroy populated areas, this is where the political problem come in, do we or dont we because of the laws. but the longer this thing waits in courts or whatever the forest suffers from it beauty. and things can become really hazardus in the hot sumer time.

[toas243]

Originally Posted by Bait Bucket

Southern Pine Beetle.... Nasty little critters that have invested a lot of our forests. They have completely destroyed a lot of the soft wood forests back east. They don't eat the wood. They eat the paper-like matter just under the bark and that kills the trees.

What kind of returns are the beetels getting with the great investments of wood ,I know i that alot of places are Infested,with beatles

[Bill Monroe]

I don't find much yet newer than 2003, but believe the area is at least twice that this year.
There are some other articles about warmer climate (cold weather has kept the beetles at bay in the past.
My moose and trout guide in Dease Lake said they've definitely noticed warmer winters for several years.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfp/mountai...bbbrochure.htm

[nehalemguy]

Originally Posted by Bill Monroe

There are some other articles about warmer climate (cold weather has kept the beetles at bay in the past.

Oh boy, here we go.

E