immagration bill

[husker]

senate today decided not go foward with there ammensty program...and msnbc or cnn has a poll 76% are happy the bill failed....i am in the 76%...enforce the rules we have on the books and stop choosing which laws are good and bad.......

on a side note fla authorites are driving 5 and 6 police cars up to a constuction site and then watching to see who runs.....those that run get questioned for tresspassing then there info gets passed on to INS.,..........however the aclu seems to think thats a violation of rights....

why would anybody run if they had nothing to fear......

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by husker

why would anybody run if they had nothing to fear......

Beats me, good fences make good neighbors.

[fishstik]

Ask an Indian there thoughts on immigration polocies? :shocked:

[PGJPJ]

Yeah, I saw that. Thank God! I was really steaming over this whole thing.

I am so so happy.

[Just_learning]

Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Just give them the citizenship and move on to the next gripe. Sheesh.

[TheRogue]

Nope we blew it many years ago.

Build the wall, set the landmines. If you're on this side, you're now a citizen. If you try to come over from today on, it better be legally or you're toast.

NO WAY can we go back in time and try to fix the mess. Make a "zero day" and start all over again, and enforce the laws and our borders from that point forward. Anything else is pure insanity.

TR

[garyk]

"immagration bill"

I'm all for holding a strict line at our borders....
AND making spelling competency a requirement for citizenship.

[Swamp Puppy]

couldn't help but laugh at that one.... :grin:

count me in as one of the 76% that was happy to see this fail. truthfully, i wouldn't be opposed to the idea of amnesty for illegals currently residing in this country IF..and only IF..they first demonstrate that they can control the borders and stem the tide of illegals entering the country from ALL directions. once they can do that..then i'll be willing to listen to the amnesty talk.

[cooky]

I don't understand why people call it amnesty. The bill would require these folks to pay a fine. Is it called amnesty when you get a speeding ticket? Our country is at full employment. Let these people in we need the labor. I suggest we let in all the immigrants who want to work and emmigrate all the americans who don't want to work to mexico. So what they came into snuck into our country. I would do the same thing to support my family.

[BCF]

Originally Posted by husker

senate today decided not go foward with there ammensty program...and msnbc or cnn has a poll 76% are happy the bill failed....i am in the 76%...enforce the rules we have on the books and stop choosing which laws are good and bad.......

on a side note fla authorites are driving 5 and 6 police cars up to a constuction site and then watching to see who runs.....those that run get questioned for tresspassing then there info gets passed on to INS.,..........however the aclu seems to think thats a violation of rights....

why would anybody run if they had nothing to fear......

Ever thought that maybe being able to spell the english language should be the criteria for getting your citizen?

Bet Not.
BCF

P.S. I really had not read GaryK's post before I wrote mine. Unreal.(LOL)

[Irish Pennant]

It ain't over until it's over and it ain't over. All Oregonians ought to know that.

[drano100]

Ever thought that maybe being able to spell the english language should be the criteria for getting your citizen?

Bet Not.
BCF

Robin
I have to be able to spell before I can get my citizen? What kind of citizen do I get? Hopefully a cute female kind with lots of money and cool toys, and does not need to apply for citizenship

[Artwo]

Hell, a lot of people on this website wouldn't be able to get their citizenship if spelling the english language was a criteria.....................

[PGJPJ]

Oh, the spelling Gestapo again.

Well, I think its great news.

Want to start talking about national healthcare? Or better social services? Stop the flood of illegal aliens first, then we can talk.

What I think we really need is a NAFTA minimum wage. You can’t have such a large differential in wages across the border. But of course, what does the ruling class in Mexico care, they’re still getting rich. Just keep exporting poverty to the US.

Oh well, not up to me I guess. So my vote is, lock down the boarders.

[Swamp Puppy]

Originally Posted by cooky

I would do the same thing to support my family.

so would i...but that doesn't make it right.

[toas243]

Originally Posted by fishstik

Ask an Indian there thoughts on immigration polocies? :shocked:

They sold some of the dirt we live on BTW I`am not complaining ,cause we could be Like Mexico and living there is horriable

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by cooky

I don't understand why people call it amnesty. The bill would require these folks to pay a fine. Is it called amnesty when you get a speeding ticket? ....

Would it be amnesty if you got a $5 ticket for poaching a trophy bull elk, and got to keep the elk?

[toas243]

Originally Posted by cooky

I don't understand why people call it amnesty. The bill would require these folks to pay a fine. Is it called amnesty when you get a speeding ticket? Our country is at full employment. Let these people in we need the labor. I suggest we let in all the immigrants who want to work and emmigrate all the americans who don't want to work to mexico. So what they came into snuck into our country. I would do the same thing to support my family.

No problem and you give them your job and you pay for their health insurance

[Kentucky Hog Hunter]

I love these threads.....

So many opinions.....

I vote for no amnesty.... Ship the illegals back because they don't pay taxes, they make my health care costs more expensive, crime rate is higher than it would be if they weren't here.

Send them back, let them apply for citizenship the right way and then they can come.....

One other thing - why do I have to push 1 for English..... That really is a novel concept..... In the words of the Guiness guys - BRILLIANT

[husker]

here u guys go since i made a typo and didn't correct it.....to bad it can't be corrected for all the of english majors...


Immigration...Immigration....Immigration...'

[BCF]

Originally Posted by drano100

Ever thought that maybe being able to spell the english language should be the criteria for getting your citizen?

Bet Not.
BCF

Robin
I have to be able to spell before I can get my citizen? What kind of citizen do I get? Hopefully a cute female kind with lots of money and cool toys, and does not need to apply for citizenship

That is hysterical...never type from work.....aaaaaa, I meant to say ship........citizenship. that is just plain funny.p

BCF on his way out of the country

[cooky]

Originally Posted by toas243

No problem and you give them your job and you pay for their health insurance

Fat people make my health insurance more exspensive and yet I don't advocate for supersize stasi agents. In terms of job availability if one works hard to become a skilled and reliable worker they might not have to worry about losing their jobs.

[Tilla]

It's so funny to think that it actually people still believe that it matters what they think. In no way was this bill intended to pass. The fix was in. There are those that are hoping you will forget the whole matter so that money can be made.

[cooky]

Originally Posted by roadsend

Would it be amnesty if you got a $5 ticket for poaching a trophy bull elk, and got to keep the elk?

By defintition that is not amnesty.

[FireCat]

I don't think President Bush fully understands this immigration thing. Like today, when they
asked him about amnesty, he said it's horrible when anyone loses their memory....

Infact President Bush went down in Mexico...Again, I don't think President Bush gets it.... As soon as he stepped off Air Force Once, he looked around and said, 'Wow, you got a big problem with Mexican immigrants down here, too......:grin:

[Fish Killer]

How about shipping them all back to start with. Then build the wall - then put heat seaking fully automatic weapons every thirty feet on top of the wall.
This would lower taxes, drug abuse rate, crime rate, sexual assaults, and students per teacher in the schools....

I should run for president

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by Fish Killer

How about shipping them all back to start with. Then build the wall - then put heat seaking fully automatic weapons every thirty feet on top of the wall.
This would lower taxes, drug abuse rate, crime rate, sexual assaults, and students per teacher in the schools....

I should run for president

Already got thinking like that . Thanks anyway, here's your Turtle Wax.

[RODACTION]

Originally Posted by JustCallMeDave

Already got thinking like that. Thanks anyway, here's your Turtle Wax.

To bad it's just thinking.

BTW, Turtle wax is my favorite !! :grin: long lasting shine :smile:

[Okie]

When The United States Becomes A Third World Country, They Will Not Want To Come Here.

Just Enforce The Laws That Now Exsist.

Good Luck

[wishin]

Haven't seen the cue ball avatar in a couple of months JustCallMeDave. It is a sight for sore eyes! Welcome back! You could have picked a nicer thread to start back up on though.

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by Okie

When The United States Becomes A Third World Country, They Will Not Want To Come Here.

Just Enforce The Laws That Now Exsist.

Good Luck

Nobody wants to enforce those laws because too much of big business needs those very illegal immigrants to keep their businesses running. That "undocumented workforce" is the very one that they can pay lower than minimum wage, provide no benefits, and skirt payment of taxes and other fees that they would normally have to pay on legitimate workers.

Instead, what you will have is the folks up on the hill making a bunch of noise about how important it is to keep our borders secured, without any real effort to do just that. Anyone who thought that anything more than empty campaign promises and meaningless floor speeches would come of all this hasn't been paying attention.

[JustCallMeDave]

Originally Posted by wishin

Haven't seen the cue ball avatar in a couple of months JustCallMeDave. It is a sight for sore eyes! Welcome back! You could have picked a nicer thread to start back up on though.

I was lured with high-carb gooey bribes.

[foxer]

Step #1 Make it so businesses cannot write off wages of people with fraudulent social security numbers. If the numbers dont jive. you lose the deduction and get the attention of the Feds.

Step#2 Enforce immigration laws.

Step#3 Change constitution so that those born of parents here illegally are not automatically granted citizenship.

This will crack down on the desire to come illegally, and encourage those to do it right. No jobs, no automatic citizenship for your kids, no reason to cross the border.

[drano100]

Short term put a bounty on employers that hire illegal aliens , if you turn them in you get the money. Make it worth wild $2500, the employer will have to pay the bounty as part of the fine. You don’t want to put the company out of business, so they could pay the fine of over time with interest, and then tax lein them until paid. It would stop pretty quick, and would be fairly easy to implement, and manage even for the government.

I am going to get flamed for this part but they should havea proof of date of entry cutoff( I mean a real one not the one they proposed Jan 1, 2007 ), and let some stay, understanding they will get a work visa that can be renewed and they need to meet certain requirement to become a US citizen. Maybe 1992 as a date, that would put them here for 15 years, they would have to have a clean criminal history, pay fines, be fluent in the English language both written and spoken to grade level 9 and do 516hr (3 months) of community service, Room and board will be provide during community service. Children of these people could stay if they were currently in school getting a 2.5 gpa , and are fluent in the English language both written and spoken to grade level standards. If they can not meet the standards the parents can either return to their home country, or send them home to live with relatives. 15 years would have given the ones that wanted to assimilate into the US culture to have done so. The others would go home as they have shown they are not really interested in becoming citizens. The community service time would be staggered letting one parent stay at home with the kids at all times, it would be spent on the boarder building the wall. In a few years, they could start on the north wall until the community service hours are used up. We would end up with about 4 to 5 million new citizens, that had shown over the long run that they were truly interested in becoming a US citizen.
The bill that did not pass would have cost the country something like 2.5 trillion dollars, if the government thought they could afford that they should be able to afford deportation cost.
I would be comfortable with something along those line as an Immigration Bill.

[Tilla]

Originally Posted by foxer

Step #1 Make it so businesses cannot write off wages of people with fraudulent social security numbers. If the numbers dont jive. you lose the deduction and get the attention of the Feds.

But business owns, I mean influences, the gov't, it is not going to happen. Even if a law is passed it really isn't going to happen. They'll find a reason it cannot be enforced.
Del Monte was just a show, like the Palletizer outfit busted a year or so back east.
See how they had this law about ready to pass and at the last minute it fails? Duh!
This will stall the whole thing until the public finds something else to focus on. Baaah! Baaah!

[Just_learning]

Originally Posted by Tilla

This will stall the whole thing until the public finds something else to focus on. Baaah! Baaah!

The sheeple...errrr...uh... people have a memory of about 3 weeks when it comes to current events. NEEEEEEEEEEXT!!!

[rowmanholiday]

Originally Posted by foxer

Step #1 Make it so businesses cannot write off wages of people with fraudulent social security numbers. If the numbers dont jive. you lose the deduction and get the attention of the Feds.

Step#2 Enforce immigration laws.

Step#3 Change constitution so that those born of parents here illegally are not automatically granted citizenship.

This will crack down on the desire to come illegally, and encourage those to do it right. No jobs, no automatic citizenship for your kids, no reason to cross the border.

Foxer, I like the way you think.

Also, I would love to see the Mexican government do more or should I say something to try to keep their citizens from leaving enmass. Major economic reforms are a good start.
This situation is a huge iceberg and we are just seeing the tip of it.
(Of course IMHO).

[TheRogue]

Nope, the Mexican government will NOT do anything. I've read in numerous places that after oil, cash flow from workers(mostly illegals) in the US is the number 2 revenue source for the country. Living in Mexico is bad now; what will hapen when/if that flow is cut?

TR

[Norm]

Removing all illegal workers will destroy agriculture in Oregon as we know it today. Who else will do hard seasonal work without benefits for $10.00 and hour, not most of the legal residents. I'm not for amnesty, but we need some kind guest worker program. Cheap migrant labor has been a staple of western agriculture for decades. If they come to work, and obey the laws, it's a win win for our economy. I do have a problem with un-checked illegal immigration, but creating a reasonable alternative for workers and employers could fix that in short order. Besides, rounding up and deporting 20 million people is probably not going to happen in my life time.

[Chrome Bumper]

Lots of born in the USA teenagers around who could learn how to work.

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

Lots of born in the USA teenagers around who could learn how to work.

Back in the '50s, darn near every jr. high and older kid around made good summer money picking berries.

[24 on/ 48 off]

The work is still available, but the farmers cannot convince enough of the teens to do it.

[Just_learning]

Originally Posted by roadsend

Back in the '50s, darn near every jr. high and older kid around made good summer money picking berries.

Try filling those jobs with teenagers today...they wouldnt last a day in the heat...most of them anyways. Even if you had all the ones willing to do it, you probably wouldnt put a dent in the need of migrant labor.

Theres a difference between them and us American "citizens". They are hungry and want the work, and will do whatever it takes to get a start. Most of us havent done anything worthy of citizenship except for being born here.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by 24 on/ 48 off

The work is still available, but the farmers cannot convince enough of the teens to do it.

Now days I think you can't hire any kid under 14 years of age. Also schools don't end until the middle of June. Strawberries are half overwith by then.

[PGJPJ]

Yeah, it sure is nice to have economic slaves to work on the plantations. But if we’re not careful, we might all end up as economic slaves, competing in the job market for $10/hr no benefits jobs.

[Chrome Bumper]

I guess they need to increase the pay.

[Okie]

There is many good answers here to the problem. The problem now seems to be our Senators who represent us, don't want to do what it takes to really solve this problem. They are not really representing us by ignoring this problem.
It appears that our representive type of goverment is in danger also when they don't really represent us.Good Luck;

[RascallyRabbit]

Originally Posted by roadsend

Back in the '50s, darn near every jr. high and older kid around made good summer money picking berries.

My brothers and I picked strawberries (and more) in the 70's. If I remember correctly at our best we averaged 20 flats of strawberries a day and were paid $1.25 per flat back then.

Steve/RR

[Steeleman]

Below is an email I received at work when this Bill was first proposed! Everyone should read this! I'm very disappointed to see that most American's are happy this Bill didn't pass, hence why this country is eating itself from the inside out! We don't need to worry about terrorists to hurt this country.....we're on the path to do it ourselves!


Let's say I break into your house
A lady wrote the best letter in the Editorials
in ages!!! It explains things better than all
the baloney you hear on TV.

Her point:

Recently large demonstrations have taken place
across the country protesting the fact that Congress
is finally addressing the issue of illegal immigration.Certain people are angry that
the US might protect its own
borders, might make it harder
to sneak into this country and,
once here, to stay indefinitely.
Let me see if I correctly understand
the thinking behind these protests.
Let's say I break into your house.
Let's say that when you discover
me in your house, you insist that I leave.
But I say, "I've made all
the beds and washed the
dishes and did the laundry
and swept the floors. I've
done all the things you don't
like to do. I'm hard-working
and honest
(except for when I broke into your house) .

According to the protesters:
You are Requiredto let me stay in your house
You are Requiredto add me to your family's insurance plan
You are Required to Educate my kids
You are Required to Provide other benefits to me & to my family
(my husband will do all of your yard work because
he is also hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part). If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your
house carrying signs that proclaim my RIGHT to be there.It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm a hard-working and honest, person, except for well, you know, I did break into your house
And what a deal it is for me!!!I live in your house, contributing only a
fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of cold, uncaring, selfish, prejudiced, and
bigoted behavior.Oh yeah, I DEMAND that you to learn
MY LANGUAGE!!! so you can communicate with me.
Why can't people see how ridiculous
this is?! Only in America .
if you agree, pass it on (in English).
Share it if you see the value of it.

If not blow it off.........
along with your future Social Security
funds, and a lot of other things.

[BCF]

Originally Posted by 24 on/ 48 off

The work is still available, but the farmers cannot convince enough of the teens to do it.

How about the farmers paying a living wage to do the work and see many how people show up to fill the jobs.

BCF

[foxer]

Define living wage. What the farmers and landscapers pay will suprise you.

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by BCF

How about the farmers paying a living wage to do the work and see many how people show up to fill the jobs.

BCF

Oh oh, I'm starting to agree with BCF.

living wage
–noun a wage on which it is possible for a wage earner or an individual and his or her family to live at least according to minimum customary standards

[Just_learning]

Steeleman,
Maybe for once we will learn from history...thats a good letter, after all we would hate to have happen to us- a simple displacement based on slowly becoming a minority. Which in the long run is bound to happen anyway. Should we cap immigration and child birth by minorities when Anglos hit a 51% majority rate? It pales in comparison to the atrocities that were committed against the Natives.

The letter is good for a laugh...thats just about it. Hardly NY Times material.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by BCF

How about the farmers paying a living wage to do the work and see many how people show up to fill the jobs.

BCF

We would be happy to pay a "living wage" as soon as you start paying $25.00 for your loaf of bread.

[PGJPJ]

Originally Posted by Jaws

We would be happy to pay a "living wage" as soon as you start paying $25.00 for your loaf of bread.

I don’t think illegal aliens pick wheat. They have tractors that harvest the wheat. And engineers that design the tractors. And machinist who manufacture the tractors. And salesmen who sell the tractors. And farmers that drive the tractors. They all make a living wage.
:grin:

[wishin]

Originally Posted by BCF

How about the farmers paying a living wage to do the work and see many how people show up to fill the jobs.

BCF

And how about consumers step up and pay $20.00 a pound for strawberries, quit importing food from overseas, and maybe it could happen. I would love for it to happen! It won't happen the other way around. I will guarantee that a farmer standing on the streetcorner with a bucket of berries for sale at $20.00 a pound while holding a sign stating that they were picked at a to be determined "living wage" would have a tough time selling her bucketful, and certainly not a field full. Especially when the store window behind has a sign advertising Chilean strawberries for 47 cents a pound. But, what the heck, I am sure that strawberry farming in Oregon is tremendously profitable. Why else would strawberry acreage in Oregon be declining at such a pace as to hit zero acres in a few years. Enjoy those central American berries!

Another question BCF. If an entry level job is to immediately provide a "living wage", should a union engineer make the same? I am asking with all sincerity BCF, because I am perplexed as to how it would all work. I must be missing something and I want it to work, you tell me how.

Let's start with this...... farmer Joe down the street has just decided to offer $36K per year to pick his field of strawberries. Tell me what happens next?

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by Jaws

We would be happy to pay a "living wage" as soon as you start paying $25.00 for your loaf of bread.

The cost of wheat is a very small fraction of the cost of bread. Its all the millers, truck drivers, bakers and store clerks getting paid that makes up the bulk of the cost.

[BCF]

Originally Posted by Jaws

We would be happy to pay a "living wage" as soon as you start paying $25.00 for your loaf of bread.

So you agree then that the current wage to farm workers is not a living wage, since I am not paying $25.00 for a loaf of bread?

BCF

[BCF]

Originally Posted by wishin

And how about consumers step up and pay $20.00 a pound for strawberries, quit importing food from overseas, and maybe it could happen. I would love for it to happen! It won't happen the other way around. I will guarantee that a farmer standing on the streetcorner with a bucket of berries for sale at $20.00 a pound while holding a sign stating that they were picked at a to be determined "living wage" would have a tough time selling her bucketful, and certainly not a field full. Especially when the store window behind has a sign advertising Chilean strawberries for 47 cents a pound. But, what the heck, I am sure that strawberry farming in Oregon is tremendously profitable. Why else would strawberry acreage in Oregon be declining at such a pace as to hit zero acres in a few years. Enjoy those central American berries!

Another question BCF. If an entry level job is to immediately provide a "living wage", should a union engineer make the same? I am asking with all sincerity BCF, because I am perplexed as to how it would all work. I must be missing something and I want it to work, you tell me how.

Let's start with this...... farmer Joe down the street has just decided to offer $36K per year to pick his field of strawberries. Tell me what happens next?

You and I quit eating strawberries or get higher paying jobs, you silly.

Someone will buy them or they will stop growing and selling them and they will grow something else. Supply and demand. So you agree also that being a farm worker is not a living wage job? I say it isn't half a living wage job to people accustomed to our American way of life. Otherwise more people would be working in those jobs.

BCF

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by Chrome Bumper

The cost of wheat is a very small fraction of the cost of bread. Its all the millers, truck drivers, bakers and store clerks getting paid that makes up the bulk of the cost.

Thanks for making my point. The farmer gets squat even though wheat is the main ingredient in bread. He also takes on the biggest risks and doesn't even get to set his own price for his product.