7 knot rule

id. painter · 06-19-2007, 08:26 AM

Ok, here s another question for the pack.

Ive caught tuna in my boat three different days.
One day all we used was swim baits trolled at 4 MPH. Light gear and caught fish all day long.
Another day we fished swim baits (4 rods)and one clone just behind the boat at 4 MPH and all rods caught fish .The clone had two hook ups.,we got ten fish that day over all so the strike rate was the same.
The final day we hooked two fish on swim baits trolled at 4 mph.

It seems that everyone who posts about speed its always 7 knots.
Dont you chhange up speeds now and again just to give the spread a little life ,, change of depth , direction ,speed .

I do remember "Yota" Marc Mc. talking about slower trolling with swim baits ,,,, But do any of you troll slower/ faster than 7 knots with the traditional troll gear ,,clones / broomtails.
thanks ...

I got a box full of lures, a clean/ready boat and Im gonna come give it a try about the 4 th of July ....

id. p.

Chesapeake · 06-19-2007, 08:32 AM

We always shoot for a trolling speed of about 7 knots, but.......

Because of turns, wave action, running against, running with, slowing to fight fish, ect....... our clones experience speeds anywhere from 2 knots to maybe 9 knots. We seem to catch fish at all these speeds.

Grady252 · 06-19-2007, 09:04 AM

When I started 6 years ago all I had to go on is what I was told. 6-8 kts. I usually troll around 6 MPH I don't have my equipment set on kts. Late season August and especially with swim bats slow troll aroun 3-4 mph....

It is fishing and every day will vary...I have to speed up and slow down for Salmon too. Another factor is the current and trol direction..... It is important to watch your gear, and troll things that have good action at comparable speeds. I don't think I would mix swim bats with clones.... one is better slow and the other is better fast??

5 Salt · 06-19-2007, 09:26 AM

About 6kts for clones/feathers/plug - bubble trial thing.

Bubble trails bring them in. To mix it we put a noise maker just ahead of a clone/feather, etc... and we will put clones/feathers/plug down on a diver board. Tuna a preditors and love the chase. Bubble trails and noise makers give the impression of fleeing bait. Daisy chains and spreader bars up the exictment level and number of bubble trails/commotion.

About 3-4kt for swim baits - to keep from over-speeding the lure and a more stealthier approach for boat shy and spooky fish. Early in the season everything works - later in the season calls for more stealth.

retaliate · 06-19-2007, 09:41 AM

1800 to 2600rpm for clones/plugs in my boat, which is 5 to 8kts.

Tower Todd · 06-19-2007, 09:56 AM

It all depends on your boat's wake and the sweet spot. It's a little different for each boat.

Triple C · 06-19-2007, 10:01 AM

I will run around 7 knots while pulling gear and occasionally slow way down to let the gear sink and then start back up again. It's very effective in
getting a strike when things have slowed down. I also like to run back over my tracks if I have picked up fish on a line. On more than one occasion this tactic has brought many fish to the boat. I'll pick out an area and run back and forth until they just don't hit anymore.

retaliate · 06-19-2007, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tower Todd

It all depends on your boat's wake and the sweet spot. It's a little different for each boat.

Also the trim setting will effect your wake, & the sweet spot at various speeds, I usuallt start at 2200rpm with the trim set in the middle.

BaitStop · 06-19-2007, 10:26 AM

[quote=retaliate;1564972]

The jigboats I worked on usually fished their jigs @6-8 knots until they hit a school & then slowed down 4-5 knots to put the boat in a circle & continued circling as long as the albies were hitting. As many of you know we pulled the shortest lines first & let the long ones drag & flop. When we were travelling or sliding down big swells the boats probably approached 9-10 knots & we caught lots of jaws/lips!

Boatdog · 06-19-2007, 10:35 AM

I agree with the speeds mentioned,and varying the speed for differing effects, depths, and lures.

Now that the 'wake' word has been uttered, let's look into it a little deeper...

Is a larger wake better? Or is this something you want to vary (smaller and larger wakes by adj. trim and speed), and go with what's working on that day?

Do you guys pull your clones/swim baits on/in the forward facing part of the wakes? Is that why a larger wake is better?

If you were pulling a daisy chain or jumping chain, would you position the chase lure (w/ hook) on the front side of the wake, with the chain lures in the trough?

Has anyone done better with clones/feathers/smokers when they bounce/skip along the surface? Or should they be under the surface?

Is it possible to have too many predator chains out at once?

Sorry for all the questions. I just wanted to stimulate some more related TUNA! discussions and tactics.

When it has been rough (choppy), the way-out-back rods produced more fish for us. When it was smooth, all the rods seemed to produce. Have you had the same experience?

Chesapeake · 06-19-2007, 10:55 AM

I dont know that wake is of such importance. I think a nice even rolling wake of good size is good. But what do I know?

We attempt to position our lures on the face of the wake about half between the trough and the top. I think this provides the best visabillity from below. But again what do I know?

Our shortest lines (hand lines) are 60 feet, with the clone on the end with a 7 foot leader (about 65 feet back). That puts them back on the face of the 3rd wake behind the boat if I remember correctly. They catch fish fine, I actualy think a little closer would probably be good. But we did see a few fish strike at these and miss. Not sure what that means, maybe nothing. The rest of the gear was scattered between about the 3rd and 5th wake I think with 1 cedar plug about 50 yards back just for fun.

Never pulled a daisy chain or bird, but have them now to use this year. I plan to run them at the same 65 feet, but will adjust till I think it looks good.

We fish 200 size clones and they stay a few inches under for the most part, with the occsional skirt across the surface.

CATCH AND EAT · 06-19-2007, 12:47 PM

Chris, heck we caught fish just sitting there with traps our dangling behind the boat. Some days the fish just really want it and others you have to work to get them to go. Traps were most effective at 3 to 5 mph but we got them to work at 7 or 8 too. Of course I've had them take clones while just sitting too.

Of course there is also livebait

id. painter · 06-19-2007, 02:27 PM

Ok.
Thanks to you all I ve learned a little more .

Ive also just learned (read)that there are tuna being killed ,RIGHT NOW , as I write this note.

Wish I were there. id. p.

backlash442 · 06-19-2007, 02:34 PM

I've got albies on traps trolled between 6.5-7.0 knots right down the middle way way back. Don't usually troll them though. Maybe will have to remember to try it again.

CATCH AND EAT · 06-19-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backlash442

I've got albies on traps trolled between 6.5-7.0 knots right down the middle way way back. Don't usually troll them though. Maybe will have to remember to try it again.

We had a day off the CR last year where the tuna would not hit a clone or cedar plug yet we could see a few here and there jumping. Tied on some 30# flourocarbon leader at 5' length to a few rods and started trolling them slow at 3 mph. I think it took about 2 minutes to get a double going and then after that it was game on. I think Tim, Kevin and I boated 22 charlies that day and probably lost 10 others due to the light line. What a hoot and I have to say the the fuel burn rate was significantly less by trolling 3 instead of 7. Big difference.

Traps or tuna bites are just a hoot!

Tower Todd · 06-19-2007, 04:54 PM

The term wake gets used alot, but I feel most people are talking about wake & wash together. I like to run the boat as fast as possible while still maintaining a wake / wash that is clean and has "blue water alleys". This usually is around 7 knots. We run the corner rods in the blue water alley just to the outside of the wash.

I searched my files and found the following picture. It isn't the perfect picture because the boat was in a slight turn, but shows the basics. The very center is the wash, just to the left and right are the blue water alleys. Just outside of the blue water alleys is a foamy area. The corner or tip rods are running in the alleys and the longs are run from outriggers just outside of the foamy section. If you lures are constantly running in the wash or foam, you will get fewer fish.

Each boat has a different wake / wash. My last boat had twin 250's and had a completely different wash from my current boat with twin inboards. You must play around with your boat to find the best speed, trim, etc for your boat to have the cleanest wake possible. A flat calm day may be different than a rough day. Don't be afraid to try different things.

Tower Todd

id. painter · 06-19-2007, 06:15 PM

Thanks again.

Thanks for the pic. Dang that looks fun.

id. p.

Pilar · 06-19-2007, 07:46 PM

Important point here .. speed is irrelevant as an absolute.

Every day on the water and every boat is different. Tower Todd is giving a pretty detailed explanation. Looks like he has thought about this. From what I have seen the wake is important on the hunt and on scratch fishing. Once we start doing business I think it matters less. It seems to me that a big foamy wake attracts the fish and gets you bit.

On my boat(s) the wake made the boat work. 'Pilar' throws a set of rollers that follow the boat and a good wash down the middle. I built that up by trimming the outdrive up and running at a speed that lifted the bow. This was 6 to 8 mph most days. I went slower at times and many times got bit when slowing down for doubles or triples. We found the fish and then the school stuck around the hooked fish and hit the other gear.

'Kismet' has a deep vee and throws a big foamy wake at any speed above 5 mph. I run more for fuel burn than anything. Throttle up till the GPH rises above 6. This happens at about 7 mph. We also troll on the kicker but I do not hunt that way. The kicker runs about 5 mph but the boat does not give much wake on the kicker.

Seen from under water the foamy wake of a boat looks like a big shiny bait ball. I know a few boats that do not throw a very big wake and they have trouble getting it started. When they run into a pack of boats that are hitting the fish they start to hook up.

Billfisher · 06-19-2007, 08:33 PM

Echo all of the above, except that I like to vary speeds to bring on the bite. Myles and Mint Brite hammered that point home with me. It has worked ever since. I will also try trolling swimbaits on the kicker this year.

-D

wdlfbio · 06-19-2007, 08:58 PM

When we get pretty close to water we think has the break we want, we'll drop gear and fast troll the rest of the way. We hae successfully taken fish at 10+ knots. We try to keep most of our baits up on top bouncing. I think the only dogma is you gotta have baits in the water to get bit.