Dusky Volve

[CATCH AND EAT]

Here we go again. Environmentalists say that shrinking old growth habitat is responsible for the necessity to list as an endangered species the Dusky Volve. Okay what the heck is a dusky volve you ask? Well it is kind of a mouse like creature that nests high in old growth trees.

I am growing weary of this stuff. I am all for animals, life, nature......but the continued tie up of natural resources by special interest groups is starting to chap my hide. Pretty soon it will be don't step on this, don't drive on that, you cannot boat here, no fishing there and it will be such a mess that we will never be able to enjoy the nature we think we might have saved. Very frustrating.

[Freakwater]

Bernie,
Are you really bummed that people want to save the last remaining 1% of old growth forests and the critters that live there? If forestry practices are able to sustain old growth forests like some claim, let them prove it with the other 99%. Old trees are cool.

Freakwater

[CATCH AND EAT]

John, old trees are cool. Never said they were not. I enjoy them as much as the next person. Far as the critters go though, I see another spotted owl format coming soon and another hit to the logging industry.

Like I said, just a little tired of watching lands tied up so we become more and more dependant on foreign goods. OIL included John.

Tired of folks not being able to snow mobile, bike ride, walk on the beach and so on. Where does this stop JOHN? That's what I am asking.

[Freakwater]

I just don't see this one as a "slippery slope" issue. I'm for saving the last remaining ancient forests in this country. Snowy Plover.... different deal. Marine preserves.... different deal. Snowmobiling.... different deal. Oh, and the dependence on foreign goods? Do you know how much our government subsidizes the cutting of our forests to sell the timber overseas? We are giving our timber away.

Hey! The TUNA! are here! Let's go fishin'!

Freakwater

<edit> Yeah, similar to the spotted owl thing. And, I would agree there is a large gray area in the definition of "old growth".

[CATCH AND EAT]

Selling timber overseas should never happen.

[Fast Water]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

I see another spotted owl format coming soon

It is, by and large, the only format available that can work to preserve these dwindling forests.

It didn't have to be the spotted owl back then and it doesnt have to be the dusky whatever now. Just pick a critter that is habitat specific and use the law as you are allowed.

Our old growth timberland's should be selective salvage only anyway.


IMO

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Here we go again. Environmentalists say that shrinking old growth habitat is responsible for the necessity to list as an endangered species the Dusky Volve.

Well I for one will miss the great clouds of Dusky Volves that used to blot out our sun on their annual migration from Lower Pategonia to Troutdale. We always admired their rich plumage and harpsichord-like wailing cries as they rolled in the sky attempting inappropriate sex with members of the same Dusky Volve gender.

'Tis a sad day, indeed.:frown:

[Chrome Bumper]

The dusky volve is good oversized sturgeon bait.

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Well I for one will miss the great clouds of Dusky Volves ...

I suspect the species in question is the Dusky Tree Vole

http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/4009

[BCF]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

John, old trees are cool. Never said they were not. I enjoy them as much as the next person. Far as the critters go though, I see another spotted owl format coming soon and another hit to the logging industry.

Like I said, just a little tired of watching lands tied up so we become more and more dependant on foreign goods. OIL included John.

Tired of folks not being able to snow mobile, bike ride, walk on the beach and so on. Where does this stop JOHN? That's what I am asking.

In your case C&W I guess it stops when the last Dusky Vole lies dead and gone.

How can we consider ourselves good stewarts if we can't seem to preserve God's creatures? How do you decide and then rationalize which of God's creation should die and which ones we strive to protect?

BCF

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by BCF

How do you decide and then rationalize which of God's creation should die and which ones we strive to protect?

BCF

That would seem to be a valid role for man in his God-given role as having "dominion over the animals of the land, the birds of the air", etc. We get to be the boss.

It's good to be the boss.....

[BCF]

Originally Posted by Thumper

That would seem to be a valid role for man in his God-given role as having "dominion over the animals of the land, the birds of the air", etc. We get to be the boss.

Yes Jack I got that far (LOL) but I was wondering what is the criteria for making the decision. It can't be how I spell Vole, or Volve, or volvo. I think about the concept of "bell weather " species. Or do we just plunge ahead and let the (in this case) let the old growth chips fall where they may.

Oh by the way .....glad you're back Mr Smarty Pants

BCF on C&W's endangered species list

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by BCF

Yes Jack I got that far (LOL) but I was wondering what is the criteria for making the decision. It can't be how I spell Vole, or Volve, or volvo. I think about the concept of "bell weather " species. Or do we just plunge ahead and let the (in this case) let the old growth chips fall where they may.

Oh by the way .....glad you're back Mr Smarty Pants

BCF on C&W's endangered species list

Who's C&W? (probably a trap questions)

I doubt that the dusky volve is a bell weather species like frogs and such and I respect it's right to life. However it's an animal and God did give us dominion over these animals to use as we see fit. They are not sencient beings with a soul as some of these animal rights or eco movements would have you believe. They are not smart than......he he he most of us but species do come and go do to many acts of nature or MAN.
The sole purpose of the post was to point out we are being banned as humans from nature yet we are part of nature. You must have a permit to explore the woods or do just about anything. Getting kind of silly really.

Far as old growth, I like them just as much as the next guy Robin and I enjoy nature just as much as the next person. Do I hug trees? Heck no but I am in awe of there individual distinct beauty. Should groves of trees be set aside? Why the heck not. At some point though we have say enough. When do we do this?

[BCF]

Originally Posted by CATCH AND EAT

Who's C&W?

LOL ....... Jr.senior moment........should have been C & E .......now I'll read your response. Sorry about that Bernie. He he he

[BCF]

I hear what you are saying C&W......I mean C&E but what I guess I am not hearing is what predicates the decision? Just having dominion over the animals and beasts..... (and I suspect that changed when Adam and Eve fell from Grace and were evicted from the garden) does not necessarily qualify us to make the right decisions as to what lives and what goes extinct.

What is the limit to this power/authority?

BCFW

[mandinga]

a dusky volve may or may not have found my peanut butter trap last night. snap.

[CATCH AND EAT]

Originally Posted by BCF

I hear what you are saying C&W......I mean C&E but what I guess I am not hearing is what predicates the decision? Just having dominion over the animals and beasts..... (and I suspect that changed when Adam and Eve fell from Grace and were evicted from the garden) does not necessarily qualify us to make the right decisions as to what lives and what goes extinct.

What is the limit to this power/authority?

BCFW

Robin, in this case they are assuming that "science' predicates the decision. Often the socalled "science" is faulty such as the case was for the spotted owl. Darn thing nested just about anywhere, not just old growth. What I want to see avoided here is science being used to a means for other environmental issues, not just to save a mouse. Trouble with many of these things is that the science is corrupted or used to mislead the people in to thinking something is bad when it really is not.

As you know we have a serious issue rearing it's ugly head right now Concerning OPAC. Gov. Ted K. bless his heart has decided to ignore science already in place and instead try to leave a legacy in the form of coastal closures out to three miles. And then there are the marine sanctuaries (MPA) that are proposed. Just no need for what Teddy is proposing which will be utter economic collapse for coastal communities.

So are dusky volves only found in old growth trees or is there other habitat that they can be found in? I personally know nothing about them other than like one poster did say, I'm sure they like peanut butter.

C&W or whom ever I am.

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by Thumper

That would seem to be a valid role for man in his God-given role as having "dominion over the animals of the land, the birds of the air", etc.

I reckon the vole's "God" probably gives THEM dominion over all!

The God you mention also said "I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat." But we've made laws against some of those !!

[Tilla]

Originally Posted by Queeg

I suspect the species in question is the Dusky Tree Vole

http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/4009

So much for facts here.........Dusky Volves, a close relation to the Red Crested Saaabs.


And Jack, the Boss now has the power to destroy himself. Funny how that works.

[Swamp Puppy]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Well I for one will miss the great clouds of Dusky Volves that used to blot out our sun on their annual migration from Lower Pategonia to Troutdale. We always admired their rich plumage and harpsichord-like wailing cries as they rolled in the sky attempting inappropriate sex with members of the same Dusky Volve gender.

'Tis a sad day, indeed.:frown:

perhaps a cumbersome management program requiring all loggers to take a "Dusky Vole" indentifiation course and then be issued a special "Vole Zone" Logging permit to continue logging activities in areas deemed to be Dusky Vole wintering areas..would work?

The goal would be for no Dusky Voles to be harmed, though each logger would be allowed to remove one Tree harboring a Dusky Vole during the logging season. upon turning in his recently evicted, and now homeless, Dusky Vole he would have his Vole card punched and he could no longer log for the remainder of the year.

i know it sounds crazy....but it's a much better alternative than just making logging in Dusky Vole habitat illegal altogether.

[Tilla]

If you are willing to make a stink about voles, then take the time to read the proposed Dusky Goose plans.
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=156818

Similar species, similar situation, different effects, easier to spell.

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by Swamp Puppy

perhaps a cumbersome management program requiring all loggers to take a "Dusky Vole" indentifiation course and then be issued a special "Vole Zone" Logging permit to continue logging activities in areas deemed to be Dusky Vole wintering areas..would work?

The goal would be for no Dusky Voles to be harmed, though each logger would be allowed to remove one Tree harboring a Dusky Vole during the logging season. upon turning in his recently evicted, and now homeless, Dusky Vole he would have his Vole card punched and he could no longer log for the remainder of the year.

i know it sounds crazy....but it's a much better alternative than just making logging in Dusky Vole habitat illegal altogether.

I would only agree if Dusky Voles evicted below the Wauna powerlines were required to measure at least 45". Whereas those above the powerlines could be evicted at 42".