Dog Training with a shotgun

Fish'n'Chips · 05-19-2007, 10:40 PM

I was wondering if it is possible to load shotgun shells without shot, to use for training a dog. I know I can load them without shot but are there any concerns with the gun or anything that could be bad?

steelheadslayer · 05-19-2007, 11:26 PM

You could cut them off right where the crimp starts and then just use the primer. That would work or buy some popper loads, they're just shotgun blanks.

Fish'n'Chips · 05-20-2007, 02:42 AM

I reload my own shells I was just wondering if I could leave out the shot or do I need to put paper or sawdust or something in its place to get the same sound for dog training with out have to have my training partner worry about being down range, or haveing any ill effects to my gun.

steelheadslayer · 05-20-2007, 03:09 AM

I reload too and I tried using the wads with paper in em and the sound is kind of muffled compared to a regular shotgun shell. The only thing that I've found that sounds like the real deal is popper loads. You can try the primer thing if you want to keep the sounds kinda quiet and/or introduce a young dog to gunfire.

Bait Bucket · 05-20-2007, 03:51 AM

From Ballistic Products:

Popper Load

This loads can be used in basically any type of 12 ga 2 3/4" hull
Federal 209A
25 gr. fast burning powder ( Red Dot , Green Dot , 700X , ect. )
5 BPGS gas seals ( for biodegradeable load use 1 -12 ga nitro card and 3 - 1/2" 12ga fiber wads )

Stay with the hot primer and flake type powder !!!!

Here's one I used a long time ago:

Winchester AA Hull
209 primer
18 grains Red Dot powder
Winchester 12AA wad
Fill as needed with either Millet or fine grain Cat Litter

billc_sbio · 05-20-2007, 10:01 AM

What works just as well is some .22 Blanks in a Revolver.

Also, I machined out some .38 Spl. cases to accept 209 Shotshell Primers that will then work in any .38 Spl. or .357 Mag Revolver. Those are my "Blanks" They're the best/cheapest way to go IMHO.

Fish'n'Chips · 05-20-2007, 02:45 PM

I like the millet idea. I can feed the birds while training my dog. Any guess on how far the seed will fly?

Hawaiian Time · 05-20-2007, 03:25 PM

The millet turns to powder on the explosion. If you're shooting over your dog, be sure it is a dog that has been conditioned gradually. You could really start a problem of gun shyness. Be carefull also about shooting the popper loads. It still carries a heck of a lot of power. If you put the barrel up to a melon, it will blow it up. There have been instances of serious injuries with popper rounds. HT

fishinpoor · 05-20-2007, 04:31 PM

HT is right on about the power of a popper load,buy a starter pistol that uses 209 primers,plenty loud (hearing protection required) also as HT pointed out PLEASE.........condition your dog to gunfire first at a distance then gradually work in closer,gunshy dogs are not born they are made.

No, i didn't stay at a holiday inn last night,but i am a professional dog trainer

cureless1 · 05-20-2007, 07:26 PM

We have a new puppy and I have noticed the popper loads are great and cheap. Most dog training web sites carry them. Unless you really want to do your own loads, buy them.

Also we have been going to field hunt trials and we take the puppy she is able to hear shots in the distance all day from the safety of the car in her crate. We take her out and she socializes with other dogs and people.

We also take her to the trap club and let her sit in her crate and she hears the shots for hours again in the safety of her crate. You can also find others who train dogs and join a training group and they are exposed to lots of this kind of thing.

We started with a capgun, lawnmower, and vacuum just to expose the dog to various loud noises. Our dog is now 12 weeks old and I don't see any shyness to any gun shots but we are still very careful not to mess this one up.......

Cureless

River Bum · 05-21-2007, 09:03 AM

The cheapest and easiest way to start a young pup from the time you bring it home and ensure it will not be gun shy, is to go into the room or the kennel and clap your hands as loud as you can and greet the dog happily. We breed labs and I do this from the time they can hear until they leave to their new homes. At first they will flinch and sometimes run to the far side of the kennel, but after a few days they hear the Clap and come running. Once they get over the noise I take a retriever trainer out and exercise the parents with the pups inside, next with the door open so the noise is a bit more intense. By the time they leave at 8 wks, the whole litter will chase their parents to the dummy. A lot of fun. If you work even a gun shy dog in the proper fashion you can bring them around. Some say a gun shy dog will never get over it, in some cases this is true depending on fear level, but I have worked several dogs through their fear and they have become outstanding hunters. On the timid dogs you must work slow and be patient but don't give up, it MUST be a positive experience for the dog. Have to be careful with Labs as though, at 10-12 weeks they go through a shyness stage, it's normal and they all go through it, it's a good idea to take it easy for those two weeks and just let the dog settle down and then proceed with the training.