Why are gas prices so high?

[Bootstrap Bill]

Why are gas prices so high? I have yet to research this question because when I think about how much it costs me to fill My Honda Civic I get ill. I just pay the man at the pump and freak out later when I balance the checkbook ant the end of the week. 6 years ago I could fill the tank for less than $15, now it costs me more that twice that today! What is going on with this country? How come nobody in the government has addressed this issue? They are literally squeezing the life out of the american people. What happened to the days when the american people stood up for what they felt was wrong? I feel like we are all a herd of cattle slowly making our way to the slaughter house. If only somehow we could come up with a plan to let the oil companies know that this will not stand and that we have had enough! You would think with the internet we could start a nationwide lockdown of this country where nobody buys gas for a week and all the tractor trailers create roadblocks around this country and we let the government really know who governs this country!

[Just_learning]

I could give you an answer....an answer just as good as anyone else on the board. But the "no politics" thing kicks in. People are talking, the ones who have the power to lower fuel prices arent listening.

Reducing our dependence on gasonline is not going to lower gas prices.

[husker]

there are various factors..

1) free market
2) summer gas takes different additives
3) there isnt enough production capacity to cover the summer driving
4) gas companies always have at least 1 refinery down during this time of the year for maintaince....ie to boost profits.....why cant they do it during winter time when the gas crunch isnt happening....

oh yeah it boosts profits

[Pilar]

Non Political answer ...

It costs that much because no one reacts to the price manipulation by buying less fuel. Price goes up, people carp about it and just keep buying it.

Buy less fuel when the price goes up and you will get the Oil-a-garchies attention. Of course that is easier said than done. During the last 'Gilded age', many laws were passed ending monopolies and the unrestricted activities of the capitalists.

Maybe this is the new 'Gilded age'. Look that up with respect to Mark Twain or Samuel Clemens.

[retaliate]

GREED! Plain, & simple, expect record oil company profit's again this year. The only way to hurt these guy's is to stop buying there expensive gas, but with the Oceanfishing season just starting, I for one will continue to make them richer...Sad but True

[Bootstrap Bill]

You would think that by now there would be more advances in the internal combustion engine that would make them get better gas mileage.

[cooky]

I don't necessarily think its a free market. People selling gasoline are the same people that refine gasoline. 50% of the petro chemical industries refining capacity has been taken offline since 1980. IMHO the oil industry manipulates product supply to artificially inflate fuel prices. Additionally, don't forget about the geopolitical premium that gets tacked onto the price of crude oil as a result of the continued smoldering of the middle east. It doesn't help that hydrocarbon prospectors don't find the massive reserves that they once did. I think even today greater than 20% of the oil brought to the world market comes from five fields. Anyway bottom line is I've been watching mad max again and again... studying it... preparing...

[Pilar]

A better car is not the answer. A car that does not use petroleum in any form is.

They made an electric car called the EV1 (General Motors and others), then produced and leased 1000's of them in California. This went on for a few years. And then about 2 years ago, inexplicably they pulled all the cars out of the leases and crushed them. There was a waiting list to get an EV1. This new technology development was done in response to a law in California mandating a certain percentage of new vehicles that would have 'zero' emissions. The destruction of the cars coincided with the later dilution of that same law.

Now I realize that coal is used to make electricity. And some will also point out that burning coal is worse than burning gasoline. But electricity can be generated using other technologies. And not buying foriegn produced petroleum has no negative side effects, only positive ones for most people. A few will have to take their billions in profits and make do somehow.

Nothing will crash the price of gasoline or diesel like obsolescence.

[freespool]

The federal government regulates the price of electricity.
They also regulate the price of natural gas.
Not regulating gas and oil = record profits.

[Queeg]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

You would think that by now there would be more advances in the internal combustion engine that would make them get better gas mileage.

Apparently there are plenty of inventions, but "guess who" is diligent about buying the patents.

[negoc8]

Got this in an email today. The math is poor, but the idea is sound.


NO GAS...On May 15th 2007
Don't pump gas on may 15th
...in April 1997, there was a "gas out" conducted nationwide in protest of gas prices.
Gasoline prices dropped 30 cents a gallon overnight.

On May 15th 2007, all Internet users are to not go to a gas station in protest of high gas prices. </SPAN>
Gas is now over $3.00 a gallon in most places.

There are 73,000,000+ American members currently on the Internet network, and the average car takes
about 30 to 50 dollars to fill up.

If all users did not go to the pump on the 15th, it would take
$2,292,000,000.00 (that's almost 3 BILLION) out of the oil companys pockets for just one day, so
please do not go to the gas station on May 15th and lets try to put a dent in the Middle Eastern oil
industry for at least one day.

If you agree (which I cant see why you wouldn't) resend this to all your contact list.
With it saying, ''Don't pump gas on May 15th"

[crabbait]

Err...sorry...the idea is nonsense.

Say everyone on average spends $50 a week on gas. If no one buys gas on May 15 but everyone still spends $50 a week what harm have we done the gas industry?

I'm sorry, but this idea makes as much sense as holding our collective breath on May 15. The impact on fuel prices is identical.

[Mad Mikey]

Crabby's right.

From snopes.....

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/nogas.asp


So, don't fill up on the 15th? No problem, folks will fill up on the 14th or 16th then. The oil companies do their books weekly, not daily. It won't hurt them at all.

The only thing that will hurt them is if a large number of consumers change their habits over an extended period of time.

A true boycott takes sacrifice by the folks staging it, not just a one day, feel good about yourself facade.

[wilsonriverfisher]

I think the oil companies and opec are like the drug cartels. I also wonder why there is almost no independent gas stations anymore? Seems like the small gas pumpers went out of business before the gas started going up. Im not a guy to chase conspiracies but I do think something is wrong here. I think that its bs

[Pete]

I want to thank everyone for avoiding the political cheap shots on this topic. Let's keep it that way ... we're all feeling the pain.

[Stz ll]

Originally Posted by Pete

I want to thank everyone for avoiding the political cheap shots on this topic. Let's keep it that way ... we're all feeling the pain.

[roadsend]

I received this e-mail just the other day.

WELL....IT'S WORTH A TRY ANYWAY.......
>
> >
> GAS WAR - an idea that WILL work
>
> This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola
> executive. It came from one of his engineer buddies who retired from
> Halliburton. It's worthy of your consideration.
>
> Join the resistance! I hear we are going to hit close
> to $4.00 a gallon by summer and it might possibly go higher! Want
> gasoline prices to come down? We need to take some intelligent,
united
> action. Phillip Hollsworth offered this good idea.
>
> This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a
> certain day" or "don't buy gas from this company during a certain
week"
> campaigns that have been going around earlier! The oil companies
just
> laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt"
> ourselves by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to
us
> than it was a problem for them.
>
> BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a
> plan that can really work. Please read on and join with us! By now
> you're probably thinking gasoline priced at about $1.50 is super
cheap.
> Me too! It is currently $2.79 for regular unleaded in my town. Now
that
> the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think
that
> the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to
take
> aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the
> marketplace.....not sellers. With the price of gasoline going up
more
> each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going
to
> see the price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the
pocketbook
> by not purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting
> ourselves.
>
> How? Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop
> buying gas. But we CAN have an impact on gas prices if we all act
> together to force a price war.
> Here's the idea: For the rest of 2007, DON'T purchase
> ANY gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one),
EXXON
> and MOBIL. If they are not selling any gas, they will be inclined to
> reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies
> will have to follow suit. But to have an impact, we need to reach
> literally millions of Exxon and Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple
to
> do! Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll
explain
> how simple it is to reach millions of people. I am sending this note
to
> 30 people. If each of us sends it to at least ten more (30 x 10 =3D
300)
> ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 =3D
> 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth group
of
> people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If those
> three million get excited and pass this on to tenfriends each, then
30
> million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level
further,
> you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
>
> Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people.
> That's all. (If you don't understand how we can reach 300 million and
> all you have to do is send this to 10 people.... Well, let's face it,
> you just aren't a mathematician. But I am, so trust me on this one.)
How
> long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten
> more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could
> conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
>
> I'll bet you didn't think you and I had that much
> potential, did you? Acting together we can make a difference. If
this
> makes sense to you, please pass this message on. I suggest that we
not
> buy from EXXON/MOBIL UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE
> AND KEEP THEM DOWN.
>
>

[WheresMyBobber]

We're finally catching up to other industrialized nations as far as gas prices are concerned. High prices are here to stay, like it or not. We're not the chosen few who somehow deserve low gas prices, as much as some folks like to think that way. The big oil companies make their money on the Global market, not the US market. You may not like it, but you surely can't change it!

[wilsonriverfisher]

I think thats the mentality the oil companies have sold us!

Originally Posted by WheresMyBobber

We're finally catching up to other industrialized nations as far as gas prices are concerned. High prices are here to stay, like it or not. We're not the chosen few who somehow deserve low gas prices, as much as some folks like to think that way. The big oil companies make their money on the Global market, not the US market. You may not like it, but you surely can't change it!

[WheresMyBobber]

Well, oil and gas are global commodities and will trade and be priced as such. You can look at it as a sell job if you like, but it doesn't change the reality.

http://money.cnn.com/data/commodities/

[backlash442]

Because they can. Oil is less expensive now than a year ago yet gas was "cheaper" than it is now.

Any of you know anyone in the oil drilling business? These guys are making so much money they don't care what anything costs in terms of equipment etc. Much like the Pentagon and the 500.00 toilet seat. Oil companies are pouring money into domestic drilling. They can't drill fast enough. Bringing in more and larger drilling rigs anywhere there's oil to be drilled. There's probably more oil in the states than has ever really been disclosed. I've heard this from more than one drilling supervisor too. Wy. as an example has a lot more oil than most people think and I'm not talking shale either.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by WheresMyBobber

We're finally catching up to other industrialized nations as far as gas prices are concerned. High prices are here to stay, like it or not. We're not the chosen few who somehow deserve low gas prices, as much as some folks like to think that way. The big oil companies make their money on the Global market, not the US market. You may not like it, but you surely can't change it!

The main reason our price for fuel is lower than some other countries, like those in Europe is because their taxes are a lot higher. I'm guessing we pay about the same for the raw product.

[neilsom]

A couple reasons

first increase in taxes. Oregon charges more tax per gallon than other state

second, in the oregonian a week or so ago they mentioned that in Oregon as the price went up so did the demand. Why lower it. They are selling more at the higher price. simple economics

third the media conditions the public to accept the higher prices. They say gas will be $4 and the surprisingly it is. If they said a gallon of milk would be $10 and it crept up to theat point no on e would be surprised.

The last is a lack of options. people have to go to work and public transportation is to slow. for me it would add an hour and a half to my commute each way. not worth it.

I do drive less on the weekends and as much as it hurts I haven't been taking the boat out for a boat ride with the wife. fishing only until the weather gets warm. then I will probably use it more.

that is my

[jimh]

We had one party in charge of our Congress and now we have a different one in power. Canada and Australia also have higher prices and don't even have our Congress...so it is safe to assume that whatever the cause is, it isn't limited to forces in the US! I think you have to go somewhere other than US based oil companies to look for blame.

[WheresMyBobber]

Lets think about this...

Oil companies are spending HUGE amounts of money to try to find more oil. They wouldn't be doing this if there was a glut of oil laying around. They're doing it because demand is going up and they need more oil to meet demand. The more the oil companies spend on drilling and exploration, the more it affects the prices the consumer pays, just like any business. Does anybody really think the oil companies are going to give us a break on the price because we think we deserve it? It's not going to get any better folks, except for seasonal fluctuations. Thow in a geo-political event and it may get much worse.

I still maintain that we won't and can't change it. But you can profit from it if you to. Invest in the energy and energy services (drilling) sector. If you're patient, Halliburton is a good value play in the drilling sector in my opinion. But I'm not an investment advisor, and I don't play one on the internet.

[wilsonriverfisher]

I heard we in the northwest are still getting the same amount of gas we got in the 60s as far as pipelines go

[jzell]

My other car is a bike.

[Ryan Pultz]

[12244]

I found a comment on Charlie Rose last night interesting. This was found by chance, I am not a fan of either one, and this is not an endorsement of anyone, just information. Seemed like beleivable reasoning, as I fill up every couple of days, and have noticed big price increases associated with major war campaigns, this latest one being the biggest.
minute 12 of Guest Terry McCarthy May 1st

[PIR8 Hook]

Originally Posted by WheresMyBobber

Lets think about this...

Oil companies are spending HUGE amounts of money to try to find more oil. They wouldn't be doing this if there was a glut of oil laying around. They're doing it because demand is going up and they need more oil to meet demand.

I'm sorry but I disagree. My father was a mico-paleontolgist (SP?) for Humble Oil, (remember "Put a tiger in your tank"). He told me in the 1960's that we had more oil in capped wells in the USA than ANYONE COULD IMAGINE. The reason... WAR reserves. It's there, we just can't touch it.

Also there are people in high places who make VAST sums of money in the oil industry that would LOVE to drill off the Oregon Coast and the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. When we hurt enough, we'll back down and let them drill there. By the by, look at history....Hitler came into power in Germany when the inflationary spiral was out of control.

[Freakwater]

Originally Posted by neilsom

A couple reasons

first increase in taxes. Oregon charges more tax per gallon than other state

Actually, factually, Oregon has the 23rd highest tax per gallon nationally. $0.42.4/gal which is 3.5 cents lower than the national average.

One of many links http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...show/1054.html

Freakwater

[Quasimodo the fish killer]

seems to me a big reason prices are so high is because the goverment let the big oil companies push the little ones out or buy them over .

when i was a kid there had to be at least 10 or more independant oil companies now there is what 3 ?

if it was an open market think the big guys would keep their prices high so the little guy could drop his price and sell millions of gallons? not a chance in this workd there would be a competitive market place where oil is concerned. the goverment letting all the buy outs in the 70s and 80s happen is why they have such a strangle hold on us now.

my opinion is that too many people with the hands of the oil companies in their pockets made decisions that they shouldn't have made just because they were getting campain contributions.



Quasi

[gottafish]

Well my boss and I are sick of this crap I have a 66mile commute every day for work My truck gets like 14mpg on a good day My Boss has a 40 mile round tripand his truck get 13mpg . We bought Motorcycles. mine is a 750 shadow Ace, gets 52MPG and his honda rebel is getting 89mpg. every day I am seeing more and more motorcycles on the road. because lets face it there great on gas and cheep to buy and own.

[TheRogue]

Originally Posted by neilsom

first increase in taxes. Oregon charges more tax per gallon than other state

Nope, Oregon is right at the national average for taxes per gallon of gas......totals around $0.42/gallon, including the federal tax.

I do agree with most everything said here, though....we're stuck with it, not because we're forced into it, but because we allow it. Demand continues to increase along with the price.

Too late in the game to regulate it, although I would like to see some sort of windfall tax levied on the oil companies that gets directed straight into alternative energy.


TR

[rob allen]

"The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil"

Plain and simple a certain group of people who are political in nature want more power and will use any means necessary to bankrupt the middle class so they can have more power..

It's class warefare and those at the extreme top are the ones who started it and are the ones who are winning.

in short GREED.

play footsie with the numbers and inflation if you want to but you cannot have record high prices and record oil company profits and not come to any conclusion other than they are just stealing our money from us because they are greedy and don't care about you or me.

[foxer]

There hasnt been a new refinery built for something like 30 years. This is the problem, not lack of oil. Lack of refining capacity. Bottom line, hybrids arent the answer. More refineries are. 1pump needs to chime in here.

[D-tangle]

I guess I am simplistic in my view here. The buying and selling occurs on the world market according to supply and demand. This can not be 'fixed' against us.
If the supply is up, the price drops. If the supply is down, the price goes up since the buyers will pay more to get it. The supply doesn't have to be down since oil is already 'found' and only needs to be pumped out of the ground. Many 'wet' holes are capped until needed. The free enterprise system is dead as far as oil is concerned, since there are no companies out there to shake-up the status quo of oil producers. They have decided to pump slower to raise the price. It is a perfect deal-work slower and make more money for less product.
We need more oil companies to come into existence and compete for the gas dollar or we are permanently sunk. Even if everyone drove 100 mpg cars, the oil producers would produce even less to keep demand high and we would pay $50.00/gal--they would work less and make more than now.
It is only the few that drive 50/mpg cars right now that will see a little consolation, since they are competing with 20 mpg cars. Once everyone drives 50 mpg cars, the price will continue to go up to keep the profit margin good for the oil producers. The price will go up exponentially, then. Big owie.
That's my thoughts.

[PGJPJ]

"Why are gas prices so high?"

Why does bottled water cost more then gas? Is it the greedy rich, or the gubments fault? Or is it because we are willing to pay that much?

[Just_learning]

I blame the gubment for everything wrong. I also think they need to lay off of following me in their black helicopters....

[Smj]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

You would think that by now there would be more advances in the internal combustion engine that would make them get better gas mileage.

Something dawned on me the other day, durring my second visit to the gas station for the day. I gas three vehicles, my wifes '05 Honda CRV with the highly sophisticated variable valve timming and all the computer managed 2.3L engine stuff, my '85 GMC 1/2 ton PU with the 305ci carbed engine, with cats, air injection and all the ppolution controll stuff they put on in the mid '80s and my '69 Chev beater PU work truck with a 307ci bare naked carbed engine. The three of these vehicles are driven a total of less than 7500 mile per year combined, and I just happen to hit a day when I was filling cans and the work truck, and topping off the boat, and cussing the high prices of course, 'cause I was into the tanks close to $100.00 for the day. My old beater carburated '69 Chev gets the same mileage per displacement around town as that fancy pants highly sophisticated, super-duper, injected, variable valve timed Hoda CRV! 10mpg on the Chev for a 5L V-8 vs. 20 or less mpg for a 2.3L four banger, around town. The big difference between the two is, the exaust on the Chevy could kill a family of four sitting next to it at a stop light in 5 minutes, and the Honda you would be hard pressed to kill a canary in your closed garage in a week.

So, no ones into making cares get better mileage, they're into making them cleaner! I can throw 3000 pounds of compost or rock in the back of the puck-up, and ten bags steer manure in the back of the Honda and it gets a little squirrly!

Smj

[HntnFsh]

Originally Posted by foxer

There hasnt been a new refinery built for something like 30 years. This is the problem, not lack of oil. Lack of refining capacity. Bottom line, hybrids arent the answer. More refineries are. 1pump needs to chime in here.

Finally,out of all these posts.1 person hit the nail on the head!
There is no oil shortage!!! There is a gas shortage!!!

There are not enough refineries.And conveniently,they seem to have a lot of problems at peak usage times.

We need more refineries.Thats hard to do because of the environmental laws.

I've always hoped the Indian tribes could find a way to get around some of those laws and build refineries on reservation land instead of casinos.I bet the could make more $ than they already do.

I really want to protect our environment.But refineries can be built and be safe for the environment at a reasonable cost.If allowed to do so.

Hntnfsh

[rimrock]

Is the oil industry truly a free market? I frequently read that here, but I’m not so sure that’s true in the competitive open market sense. Don’t know.

[Chug]

Originally Posted by Just_learning

I blame the gubment for everything wrong. I also think they need to lay off of following me in their black helicopters....

They follow you now.. whew.. I get the Unmanned drones. They said it's for my protection, with the Hellfire missile on its rack.. Or? hmmmmmm.

Gas will increase, each year $1.00 that is the trend of the market. We keep buying more of it. Charge more, need to fund those profits.

Less Camping for me, more bass fishing in rivers near home. buying food, that will last me longer.

Yep, the people will suffer. More folks to join the States Welfare system & theft. Get your Locking Gas caps!!..

[Irish Pennant]

It's a conspiracy being perpetrated upon us by sailboat makers. Their sales (sails) will go up as the price of fuel goes up.

[Smj]

Man, I really hate it when people come on these types of posts and make jokes. I guess it's the people that can easily afford every thing they need on a daily basis, and they don't give a damn about anyone else. Gas prices are hurting me, not just at the pump. I cut my driving over the last few years to less than half of what it used to be, not so much because of the cost of fuel though at the time, but now I'm glad I did. What I see though, looks like every one else has increased their driving. Every thing we use depends one oil somehow, all our food is going up and up in price because of it.

Yeah, keep making fun of us folks that are hurting, with our lifestyles getting lower by the year, even though we work harder. It would be like you having a sick sister and me making fun of the fact, because I don't have a sister.

Smj

[MattPark]

Originally Posted by HntnFsh

Finally,out of all these posts.1 person hit the nail on the head!
There is no oil shortage!!! There is a gas shortage!!!

There are not enough refineries.And conveniently,they seem to have a lot of problems at peak usage times.

We need more refineries.Thats hard to do because of the environmental laws.

I've always hoped the Indian tribes could find a way to get around some of those laws and build refineries on reservation land instead of casinos.I bet the could make more $ than they already do.

I really want to protect our environment.But refineries can be built and be safe for the environment at a reasonable cost.If allowed to do so.

Hntnfsh

Exactly.

Oil companies are spending billions to build refineries in other parts of the world. I noted two in the last gas price thread. If you want to lay the blame to anyone, blame the people who come up with unreasonable environmental controls that don't allow new refineries to be built.

Look at fuel prices towards the midwest. More refineries per gallon used = low fuel prices. The west coast is very limited in refining capacity, even if one partially shuts down it drasitcally affects prices.

If big oil wanted to keep gas prices as high as possible, they would not build any new refineries anywhere. The only thing oil companies can do in the USA is spend billions to upgrade existing refineries, because new ones are almost out of the question.

Oil companies "record profits" are in the neighborhood of 10%. What kind of profit does your business (or the business you work for) make?

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by Bootstrap Bill

You would think that by now there would be more advances in the internal combustion engine that would make them get better gas mileage.

The laws of thermodynamics make that pretty tough.

[MattPark]

Originally Posted by Smj

My old beater carburated '69 Chev gets the same mileage per displacement around town as that fancy pants highly sophisticated, super-duper, injected, variable valve timed Hoda CRV! 10mpg on the Chev for a 5L V-8 vs. 20 or less mpg for a 2.3L four banger, around town.

That's not a valid comparison. "mileage per displacement" has nothing to do with anything. Compare how much fuel is used to how much weight you are pushing and you might have something.

Your truck probably weighs less than 1000 lbs more than the CRV (roughly 30%), yet burns twice (100%) the fuel. I think it's probably more like 500 pounds heavier, which means it's 15% heavier, yet burns 200% more fuel.

Compare apples to apples whenever you can, it will make much more sense.

[Jaws]

Originally Posted by MattPark

Exactly.

Oil companies are spending billions to build refineries in other parts of the world. I noted two in the last gas price thread. If you want to lay the blame to anyone, blame the people who come up with unreasonable environmental controls that don't allow new refineries to be built.

Look at fuel prices towards the midwest. More refineries per gallon used = low fuel prices. The west coast is very limited in refining capacity, even if one partially shuts down it drasitcally affects prices.

If big oil wanted to keep gas prices as high as possible, they would not build any new refineries anywhere. The only thing oil companies can do in the USA is spend billions to upgrade existing refineries, because new ones are almost out of the question.

Oil companies "record profits" are in the neighborhood of 10%. What kind of profit does your business (or the business you work for) make?

I don't know, but isn't it cheaper to ship tankers full of finished product (gas,diesel,ect.) to the US market than using that same tanker to ship just the crude? And maybe building refineries in other parts of the world helps keep the cost down due to cheaper labor, enviro regs. ect.

[MattPark]

As for shipping refined product, I'd imagine it would cost about the same, and it's probably safer to ship crude (I don't know if safety is even an issue).

It absolutely is cheaper to build refineries in other parts of the world, especially countries where all they have to sell is oil. This is part of the reason they are being built in other countries.

If all of what you said were true, oil refineries would all be shut down in the USA and they would be built elsewhere. Oil companies wouldn't spend billions on upgrading 30+ year oil facilities.

The problem with that is, a lot of our oil comes from AK (something like 95% of the NW's oil does via the pipeline) and the rest of the country gets quite a bit of oil from the Gulf of Mexico. It certainly would not make sense to ship any of that oil overseas to be refined, and then ship it back as gasoline or diesel.

There's no shortage of oil, and the price really isn't that high. It's our inability to turn it into a useful product that's screwing us in the pocketbook.

[Trick]

Here are the PDX lowest prices for today....Ugly!:frown:



Fred Meyer Scappoose

Champion Portland - NE

Arco Woodvillage

76 Clackamas

Costco Wilsonville

Fred Meyer Portland - SE
Arco Portland - SE
Arco Beaverton

Arco Gresham

Arco Linnton

Arco Portland - SE

Costco Hillsboro

Arco Beaverton

Arco North Plains

[Chrome Bumper]

Originally Posted by MattPark

That's not a valid comparison. "mileage per displacement" has nothing to do with anything. Compare how much fuel is used to how much weight you are pushing and you might have something.

Your truck probably weighs less than 1000 lbs more than the CRV (roughly 30%), yet burns twice (100%) the fuel. I think it's probably more like 500 pounds heavier, which means it's 15% heavier, yet burns 200% more fuel.

Compare apples to apples whenever you can, it will make much more sense.

Increaseing displacement does increase fuel consumption in the duty cycle typical automobles sees. Also turning extra equipment, like four wheel drive and active traction control burns more fuel.

Newer cars have much better fuel management (O2 sensors, multi port fuel injection, OBDII) so this makes them more effeicient and cleaner too.

If Americans would be happy with a national speed limit of 45, driving a 1800 lb 40 hp hybrid diesel with ***** styling the fleet mileage could go up to 80 mpg highway, 70 city.

Currently the goal seems to be to drive 400 hp 500 ft lbs 6,500 lb vehicles. The cost of this is spending treasure and lives in the deserts of the world, and going deeply into debt as a nation to do it. While paving over our country for highways and filling our sky with exhaust gas.

At least we feel cool doing it.

[MattPark]

A bigger engine is always going to burn more fuel, but he was trying to say that the engines are cleaner, and not more fuel efficient, and that couldn't be further from the truth.

A new, similar truck to his (I'll assume a basic 2wd) would likely be seeing over 15 mpg around town (which is what it looks like he does with his). A 50% increase is something I might call significant.

[Freakwater]

Why are gas prices so high?
It's the Environmentalists!

Yeah, let's slash air pollution standards EVEN FURTHER so the poor oil companies can afford to build another refinerey. PULEEZ....

What's up with these hippies that want their children to breath clean air, anyway?

Freakwater

[MattPark]

Yeah, because our air emissions standards are SO low. Get real. The question here was "why are gas prices so high?" I'm sorry you don't like the answer, or it doesn't fit into your Bush bashing agenda, but it is what it is.

I guess it does fit perfectly into an environmentalists utopia, fuel so expensive nobody can afford to drive, everyone will have to walk or ride bikes...

Speaking of which, how did that computer you are on get from the factory to your desk? How about your fishing gear? Di it magically warp itself to where you bought it?

[Smj]

Matt, I'm confused...somewhat. My beater is generaly lumbering around Northeast Portland weighing an average of 6000lbs, 2 cubic yards of green green grass compacted over a few days, with a little rain, added to the beater I'm guessing would come close to doubling the weight of the CRV...5 litre V-8 roughly double 2.3 litre four banger. I still am comming up with close to the same fuel usage per litre.

Now...how 'bout that loaf of bread that was $.79 a year ago and is now $2.00?

I can't do much more than I already do to combat the high cost of fuel, I'd like to see the many many thousands of people driving on a Saturday afternoon spend some time at HOME with the family, just as a protest maybe. What...Does every body on their day off say ""It's my day off, let's all drive somewhere!"". The neighborhoods are deserted when most people are off work (Weekends), and the roads are jambed with cars?! I see it, I'm in your hoods on the weekend, working!

Smj

[Okie]

The only solution that I have seen that seems practical for the present time is for eveyone to only buy as much gas as they need for one day. Do not fill your tank. This would have the filling stations and oil companies holding more gas in their storage area. Which is like the car companies do when they build cars. Only buy what you need and no more.

Good Luck;

[MattPark]

Since we don't know what it weighs, (I think your estimates are high, but I don't know anything about it), we can't compare anything. My 3/4 diesel 4x4 weighs 6300 empty, I fail to see how a half ton small block is even close in weight. Heck, our 4x4 Suburban weighs under 5500 empty.

My point was that comparing usage per displacement isn't relevant to anything, and shouldn't be used for comparison. Fuel mileage and engine efficiency has come a LONG way in 45 years.

You know what all those nasty fumes are coming out of that pickup? Unburned fuel. You know how much of that comes out of a newer fuel injected vehicle? Almost zero. Youre telling me that doesn't help mileage at all? (among all the other improvements)

[El-Kabong]

Originally Posted by HntnFsh

Finally,out of all these posts.1 person hit the nail on the head!
There is no oil shortage!!! There is a gas shortage!!!

There are not enough refineries.And conveniently,they seem to have a lot of problems at peak usage times.

We need more refineries.Thats hard to do because of the environmental laws.

I've always hoped the Indian tribes could find a way to get around some of those laws and build refineries on reservation land instead of casinos.I bet the could make more $ than they already do.

I really want to protect our environment.But refineries can be built and be safe for the environment at a reasonable cost.If allowed to do so.

Hntnfsh

the facts behind this are that the oil companies have been consolidating and in that process have been shutting down refineries. they don't want to buyild new ones unless the fed. govt foots the bill. (much like the 7bil subsidy the fed. govt gives them for "exploration" or the 2 bil package Bush gave them to "research alternative fuel vehicles")

Certainly interesting that the ones who control production are careful not to overproduce. Think they considered the law of supply and demand in deciding whether to keep refineries open?

[Freakwater]

Originally Posted by MattPark

Yeah, because our air emissions standards are SO low. Get real. The question here was "why are gas prices so high?" I'm sorry you don't like the answer, or it doesn't fit into your Bush bashing agenda, but it is what it is.

I guess it does fit perfectly into an environmentalists utopia, fuel so expensive nobody can afford to drive, everyone will have to walk or ride bikes...

Speaking of which, how did that computer you are on get from the factory to your desk? How about your fishing gear? Di it magically warp itself to where you bought it?

What have I written that would make you think I like high gas prices? I happen to live to TUNA! fish and I don't see going to tunatown on sailpower anytime soon. Oil companies have been making consecutive record quarterly profits for over a year now. Greater profits than any company/industry in US history. They have no incentive whatsoever to increase production to lower prices. Why would they? In fact they have every reason to reduce the supply. And why not get a twofer by using the industry talking point that it's the wacky environmentalists that don't want to roll back air pollution regs further? The consumer is screwed and this administration doesn't seem to want to do anything to control prices. We either need to regulate, or seek alternative energy sources. But to blame it on people that want to breathe clean air is laughable.

Freakwater