Weatherby Hanloads

[SlyHawk]

Just purchased my first Weatherby. (vanguard Sub-MOA) Broke the barrel in with factory loads. Put the gun in the vise and measured chamber length. Whoa---1/4" free bore! If I were to seat the bullet within 0.030" from the lands, the bullet wouldn't be seated! I won't be able to find that overall length sweet spot that I have been used to when reloading. I understand that this long free bore is supposed to result in higher velocities, reduced pressures and fewer liability problems for Weatherby. If you haven't guessed, I'm having just a little buyers remorse right now. I guess I'll start with an overall length that will be above factory lengths and still clear the magazine? Anyone ever had this dilemma?

[baltz526]

look at all your weatherby factory ammo, is it crimped?

[SlyHawk]

No not crimped. Can only think of crimping if using max loads, and they exceed the length of the magazine for good feeding.

[baltz526]

my question was if weatherby factory ammo was crimped. the long freebore was for shooting the longest heavyest bullet for the calliber in weatherby built rifles. 220/250gr in .30cal type of thing

[SlyHawk]

Originally Posted by baltz526

my question was if weatherby factory ammo was crimped. the long freebore was for shooting the longest heavyest bullet for the calliber in weatherby built rifles. 220/250gr in .30cal type of thing

Probably why I get better results with the longer 250 gr bullets. 338 win mag was made for 250 grain fodder. Thanks!

[SlyHawk]

Anybody?

[Hogwild]

Originally Posted by Finlander

If you haven't guessed, I'm having just a little buyers remorse right now. I guess I'll start with an overall length that will be above factory lengths and still clear the magazine? Anyone ever had this dilemma?

Why buyers remorse? Ya got a great gun and you'll have it shooting sub MOA in no time. I have weatherbys and have never regretted any of them.


What's the dilemma? You have free bore but that does not mean there is not a sweet spot for bullet seating depth. Finding the COL sweet spot with Weatherby rifles is a little more trial and error than with with other rifles W/O freebore but it's not to tough to do. There is a method to the maddness of finding the COL sweet spot with Weatherbys free bore. Send me a PM and I'll see if I can help ya out.

[baltz526]

my solution is buy bullets with a canalure and crimp with long throated chambers. works for me

[Hogwild]

Originally Posted by baltz526

my solution is buy bullets with a canalure and crimp with long throated chambers. works for me

Why crimp? With the freebore you'll still not get close to the lands and the mag box will limit your COl any way unless you want a single shot. With freebore you don't need to be near the lands to shoot sub MOA.

If I'm understand him correctly he is used to seating close to the lands with standard chamberings and the freebore thing has him frustrated trying to find the sweet spot COL. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[baltz526]

crimping creates the sweet spot, i really like the lee crimper

[DRUNK COWBOY]

How does crimping the bullet for a Weatherby make the sweet spot? I might have something to learn about my gun.

[Hogwild]

Originally Posted by baltz526

crimping creates the sweet spot, i really like the lee crimper

I could see crimping for a tube feed rifle or any straight wall but I can't see how crimping would create the sweet spot. If that was the case why would any one adjust their COL for freebore or seating distance from the lands? Crimping would be much easier.

[SlyHawk]

Originally Posted by Hogwild

Why crimp? With the freebore you'll still not get close to the lands and the mag box will limit your COl any way unless you want a single shot. With freebore you don't need to be near the lands to shoot sub MOA.

If I'm understand him correctly he is used to seating close to the lands with standard chamberings and the freebore thing has him frustrated trying to find the sweet spot COL. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Indeed that is my frustration at this point. Weatherby accuracy claims are based on factory ammo. However, I prefer to roll my own. PM sent, thanks in advance Hogwild.

[baltz526]

factory ammo is normally crimped. the reasons are multipal. consistancy, in shot to shot velocity is the one we are talking about here. if your getting 100fps in velocity differences in shot strings with no crimp, your barrel has multiple harmonics in the shot string. crimping can shrink this 100fps velocity swing, stabilizing the harmonics in your barrel. with a simular effect to setting the ogive of each bullet the same distance off the lands will. factory ammo is crimped for this reason and bullet setback issues for saftey or as a side effect of the saftey crimp. i have two rifles that have deep throats, a 6.5x55 and a 300win mag weatherby. i gain 2" in group size on the weatherby, crimping verse noncrimping on some tests. on the 6.5x55 about 1" on the 6.5x55 i'm using a lee crimper die a simple very effective tool. i also have a few others and have seen better accuracy in most rifles after crimping.

[baltz526]

i also have a rcbs power case trimmer, a mandatory tool if crimping with a standard die.

[Hunt'nFish]

I have not seen any improvement in consistancy as a result of crimping.
Primer pocket uniforming and flash hole deburing will make more of a differance.

IMO, the only reason to crimp is to hold the bullet still during recoil so it doesn't creep forward in the case. But even this I have not seen on normal magnum cartridges. Usually the whole cartridge moves in the mag and bashes the nose of the bullet flat. (this one of the reasons why I like poly tips.)

So crimp...or don't crimp....it makes no differance IMO.


As for the 1/4" freebore....such is the way of Weatherby. You'll never get close enough to the lands to matter, so adhere to the std OAL specs for the cartridge. I have loaded for the .300wby, 7mmwby, and the .30-378wby.....do your load eval like normal. Only I'd step up in full 1gr increments and simply let the rifle tell you what velocity it likes.

I suspect you'll get adaquate accuracy inspite of the freebore.......I did.
Hunt'nFish

[baltz526]

on this i will disagree, only because with some rifles the difference is dramatic. 2" smaller groups with the only difference between one batch of reloads and the next is crimping. same primer,powder,case,trim length, oal,bullet,temp at range, same range, same rifle, this has been the seen on different rifles and loads in the rifles. why do you think factory ammo is crimped, there are several combined answers to this question? it is not as simple as you make it above, ask the bench rest guys how important neck tension is, what is an easy way for a hunter to get consistant neck tension in his reloads, what is an easy way to get consistant ignition in a hunters reloads, what is an easy way to make a hunters ammo safer and more consistant in velocity? all these things can be helped by crimping for the hunting reloader. the down side to crimping, more trimming and shorter case life.

[Hunt'nFish]

Let me turn the question around.....How many benchreast guys do you know that crimp?

Controlling neck tension has more to do with process of neck turning, reaming, bushing sizers and minimum demension chambers. My position is that crimping adds in an additional variable....I seek to take out variables, not add them in. With Std Deviations in the low teens I see no reason to worry about load consistancy.....because it's already there.

Yes, I will agree that if your seeing 100fps speads you have big problems,
but I do not think it is because of not crimping. Just because the factories crimp doesn't mean I should. They have liability issues high on their priority list and they have no control over how their ammunition is to be used, so they error on the side of caution.....I would too if I were them.
But I'm not.
Hunt'nFish

[baltz526]

most reloaders see 100fps variations and the only way they can see it, is accuracy. i have a pile of cronograph sheets and none are in the teens for standard deviation that i recall. the best are in the 30's i'll look at them to make sure

[baltz526]

non crimped reloads sd 19,18,9,30,11,29,11,37,20,6,59 crimped 25,31,23,18,19,18, not that this really means anything. some of these non crimped with low sd shot poorly 2"/3" groups but the one with the highest sd is also one of my most accurate loads in the 7mm rem mag. the crimped loads all shot under 2" even the 300savage.the cases i crimp with the lee crimp die are 223, 300 savage, 6.5x55, and i crimp for the weatherby 300 win mag with the rcbs seating die

[baltz526]

now do not test me on the math

[RazorClam]

First of all What cal did you get?... .300, .270, .378? let us know and then maby I can help you alittle.

[baltz526]

it is a 338 win mag i think

[TheRogue]

hmmm....I thought the vaunted WBY freebore was only present in the true Weatherby rifles; MkV action...... The Vanguard doesn't count. It's simply a Howa with the WBY brand.

On the MkV's, you often can't get anywhere close to the lands, either bullets aren't long enough, or more often, the mag is too short. I just have them loaded to the standard length and go from there.

(I have a 7mm WBY mag in MkV lightweight)

TR

[baltz526]

vangaurd 300 win mag has a long throut compared to a ruger

[Flatfish]

Congrats on an over the counter MOA rifle. It's neat that they can promise such a thing. Sounds like a fine rifle for the buck.--------------

I have yet to meet an accuracy minded competition shooter that crimped necks in the name of accurate loads.

Consistent neck tension is important.....no doubt

Standard deviation is not an accuracy measurment....unless of course your load is already accurate, but SD is not close enough to please you(And if this is the case, either get closer to the critter before shooting. Or it don't matter because you are already good enough to point the arm in the proper place before it goes bang), then playing with annealing necks whould do a LOT more for accuracy than crimping bullets.

I never met an accuracy minded shooter who measured groups by SD. With a calipers, yes. But never with a chronograph.

It has been a long time since I shot paper at a mile. But when I did, nobody would crimp bullets and intentionally place imperfections in their bullets via a crimp. Ever.

Annealing necks was common practice. Neck turning was the norm. Some dies were cut with the same reamer that made the chamber. Nobody....I repeat NOBODY ever crimped bullets. Ask Berger, Lilja, Hart, and even Weatherby if they think crimping middle bores is necessary or beneficial to accuracy.

Unless you are in the .378 and up category, I see no reason to crimp any Weatherby reloads. If you are making elephant/buff relods, please crimp away.

MATD

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by Finlander

Just purchased my first Weatherby. (vanguard Sub-MOA) Broke the barrel in with factory loads. Put the gun in the vise and measured chamber length. Whoa---1/4" free bore! If I were to seat the bullet within 0.030" from the lands, the bullet wouldn't be seated! I won't be able to find that overall length sweet spot that I have been used to when reloading. I understand that this long free bore is supposed to result in higher velocities, reduced pressures and fewer liability problems for Weatherby. If you haven't guessed, I'm having just a little buyers remorse right now. I guess I'll start with an overall length that will be above factory lengths and still clear the magazine? Anyone ever had this dilemma?

Hehe, nothing unusual about the Leade (Freebore) in your Weatherby caliber rifle.

That's been a Hallmark of Weatherby Rifles (and Cartridges) from day 1.

In fact it's REQUIRED as part of the Weatherby equation on performance. It HAS to be there (to make things "work" properly and assure safe pressures).

About crimping jacketed bullets I can't speak to that. I'm not aware that it makes much difference , other than selling Lee Crimp Dies. (If it works better for you, by all means go ahead and do it)

I know I do it with short "pistol" rounds for lever action rifles that have Crimp Grooves in my cast bullets. That's the ONLY place I use crimping!

[baltz526]

yep crimping might not help at all, then again it might give him a rifle that matches the etching on the magazine plate. logic dosn't seem to matter in the high art of reloading. shot to shot consistancy in hunting reloads, is all i care about. crimping gives this.