TFO or Echo

[daveg]

I would like some input on the TFO or Echo rods for saltwater. My wife and I are starting to plan a trip to Belieze April 2008. I want to bring a 10 weight for permit and baby tarpon and don't want to spend $450 to $650 for a Sage, Scott, Loomis or Winston for a rod I will use every 5 or 7 years.

What models of either of these rods think/know have the back bone to stand up to fairly large fish?

I have a nice 8 wt for bonefish.

Any input would be appreciated. Thanx

[Stonedfish]

I have a TFO TiCR 10 wt that I use in Baja and the Caribbean. Lots of power and I personally think a great fish fighting rod. I've caught roosters, small yellowfin tuna, skipjack, jack crevalle and cudas on it. My buddy used my rod the past few years while fishing Tarpon at Ilsa Holbox. His largest fish was close to 100 lbs on it
I also have a TFO TiCR X in the 8 wt. I've caught lots of bones on it.
TFO also has great customer service. I broke a 5 wt Professional series (angler error) . Sent them $25.00 and had the rod back in one week.

I've heard good things about the Echo's also, but haven't fished them.
Brian

[stillwater97]

I own both Echo's and TFO's.. You can't go wrong with either brand and they are comparably priced. Both will hold up fine for saltwater.

Go cast both and buy what is right for you.

[AndyK]

How much is your trip to Belize going to cost you? It seems to me the cost of a quality fly rod is only a small portion of your total cost. Why risk spoiling your trip with a cheap rod?

I have one TFO rod and it will be my last. It is very fragile and breaks very easily. I have already replaced it twice. Next time it breaks it goes in the garbage.

I don't care how fast TFO customer service is: when you are already in Belize, you won't get the rod back (if at all) before your trip is over.

[Steelie Mike]

I own a couple TFO rods and a couple of Echo rods. I think the quality control for the TFO rods is poor in comparison to that of Echo. I had a TFO spey break on one of the first casts on its first day out. It didn't even break at a ferrule. Also my friends and I have found that the cork can be hit or miss in quality. The customer service is excellent though.

Echo rods I have found have a better quality control and it is done locally here in Vancouver. From what I have heard Tim Rajeff is a perfectionist and AR regarding his rods. Although these rods are made overseas, they are based closer to home and worth a cast to see if you like them. Also the Echo 2 have two tips for both a fast action and a medium fast action. I used a nine weight last week for the first time and really liked it. I think the faster tip is simiar to the TICRx. I own a 6wt and it is a great stick.

I suggest casting both and seeing what you think. I for one am happy with both products and they get the job done.

[daveg]

Thanks for the input. I will go cast them both, I cast an Echo at R City Fly Shop about 5 years ago when they were pretty new and liked how it felt.

I probably would step up to a more expensive rod if I didn't know that I can rent equipment from Trueneffe Flats if all else fails.

[Abalone]

Andy has a point about taking a good rod.

TFO makes many different flyrods. They make signiture series rods for
Lefty Cray etc. They make them according to the specs provided by the
person requesting them.

Jim Teeny is a big Game fisherman that fishes Belize and other tropical locations for Tarpon and other fish. He has a TFO signiture series that you should look into. The thing Jim specifies for this series of Rods are they have an extra heavy butt section. You have seen the designation on fly rods that look like this 6/7 or 3/4. That specification indicates

a 6 wt. tip with a 7 wt. butt section. While the Teeny TFO rods don't say that on the side they are all designed that way. They all have extra heavy Butts section for fighting heavy fish.

I can't see paying $600.00 for a rod that a $200.00 rod will do and do well.

The reviews for the Teeny Series TFO rods are excellant. I own Three of them and they are great.

You can go on the TFO website, email the owner and he will be glad to address any issue you have with his Fly rods.

[Rosco]

...and Teeny lives and runs a flyshop in OREGON!!!!!

[Stonedfish]

Andy,
Just curious, what model / series of TFO rod do you own?
If I were you, I'd send an email message to Rick Pope, the owner and president of TFO and express your displeasure with the rod you bought. I've spoken to Rick in person and via email and phone discussing their different rods. Very nice fella and I'm sure he would appreciate you input on their products. He expressed how important customer service is to them, especially being a newer player in the fly rod business.

As others have noted, when you travel as far away as Belize, I won't take just one or two rods. Breakage can happen no matter what brand of rod your throwing. I know I've broken my fair share after nearly 30 years of tossing flies.
Brian
Rick Pope
info@templeforkflyrods.com

[D3smartie]

ok i have started to write on this about 5 times and will finally do it...
I have cast both rods, but only fished a TFO. I liked the Echo much better but both are not great rods. As has been mentioned, the Echo has better quality craftsmanship.
Personally i would never buy a TFO rod. They fall apart. As much as people like to deny this, its a fact. Between seeing rods explode on saltwater fish to having guys bring their TFO rods into the fly shop and want us to glue the handles back together, i have seen enough to know to stay away from them. there are plenty of options out there now that i dont give companies more than one chance.
If it were me going to Belize i would want to take a rod that i dont have to think about. For me TFO and Scott dont fit that bill because i have seen both of those companies rods break when they shouldnt have. Like Andy said, the warranty and customer service does you no good when your rod breaks in the middle of a trip.
Your other option is to get a decent rod that you can sell when you return. or buy a used rod. There are a ton of them on various classifieds from guys that buy them, go fish and then wont use them again.

[chromeseeker]

I'm with Andy on this one.

If you are going to drop the sick cabbage is takes to fish at Turneffe Flats, do not go with inferior equiptment. Why pony up the big bucks and have your weakest link your fish-catching tool? Makes no sense. As has been mentioned, customer service is useless when an obese permit or tarpon causes your inferior stick to explode, leaving you with graphite and your tongue flapping in the breeze in the middle of a flat, while you curse the "money you saved".

I'd keep my eyes peeled for a good used Sage, Scott, Winston or Loomis. But before buying, YOU MUST CAST THE ROD!!

CS

[Mojo]

If you buy a TFO, buy the TiCrX. The TiCr models (though only a few bucks cheaper) are not as wellbuilt, much more brittle, and prone to breaking. I have several TFO rods, and have used and abused them. The only ones I have had problems with are the TiCr series. I have a good friend that has a lodge in Alaska. They are TFO outfitted, and they won't use the TiCr rods anymore. All they use are TiCrX and the Teeny series rods. Maybe it's something in the blue coloration that makes theTiCrX rods stronger...

BTW, Echo makes nice rods for the buck. I wouldn't rule them out.

[AndyK]

Something else to think about: spare equipment and testing your equipment before you go.

My wife and I are planning a trip to Christmas Island at the end of the year. She “may” fish, so we are taking three bonefish rods: hers, mine and a spare. I will also fish for trevally, which will require a twelve weight. Since most of my current rods are two-piece, I will need to buy several “travel” rods before we leave.

Any new rods/reels will be tested on the water before we go. The bonefish rods will be nice rods for summer steelhead and I will use the twelve weight for Chinook this fall. I’m sure a fall Chinook, even a big one fresh from the ocean, will not be the same as a trevally, but it will give me a chance to find out if there are any major problems.

I use ten weight rods for salmon (Chinook, Chum and Coho) all the time ( I caught 60+ salmon with this weight rod last year). I currently own two and have my “eyes” on a third. I don’t see why you would not use a new ten weight on a regular basis if you live in the Northwest.

[daveg]

I have 14 months to plan, I will consider a used 10 wt. The reason to go to TFlats is they have stuff for the wives to do and nice accomodations. She may fish for part of a day if we are shooting fish in a barrel.

I did buy the new Bonefishing book by Randall Kaufman and it is very informative.

[Stonedfish]

Well, I guess I'm one of the few hear that has any love for TFO rods . I originally began buying them as back-up sticks for my Sage, Loomis and Powell's. I've abused my TiCR and TICRX and they've never failed me. Most of the time I'm casting 30' head of T-14 on the TiCR's. In fact I just bought another 10 wt TiCR last week for Baja.
It is funny how different boards give you different views on equipment. If you go to Dan Blanton's board, which is frequented by mostly saltwater guys, you'll likely hear very little if any negative coments towards the TFO rods mentioned in this thread.

The point is, equipment does fail, whether it is a $200.00 or $600.00 rod. I'm sure someone on this board has taken a trip with a new high end rod, only to have it break on the first day through angler or manufacturing error. That being said, if it is Sage or a TFO, both offer great service but you're are still s**t out of luck unless you have back-up sticks.

Going back to David's original post, he was looking for something in the $200.00 price point. TFO, Echo and a few others I believe have done an excellent job filling that market niche. Not every angler can afford a single $600.00 + Xi2 for a trip, but you can have nearly three TFO's or Echo's for that same price. Will a $200.00 TFO ever match a $600.00 Sage in cosmetics or performance? Some folks will say yes, but I highly doubt it and I don't believe that was their intentions in the first place. The thing that TFO and Echo have done is give folks many more choices in the value fly rod arena. It is up to the end user to determine if the extra $400.00 is well spent.

You could also buy a used high end stick, but that still doesn't give you any guarantee that it won't also break. Also, most used rods aren't covered under the "Unconditional Guarantee".

I think Andy makes a great point about testing gear out before you take a trip. A few years back, I won a bunch of gift certificates in a sales contest from Orvis. I had a bonefish trip planned, so I picked up the newly introduced Mach reel as a last minute addition to my gear arsenal. I ended up being the Orvis beta tester for the reel. First day, drag knob refuses to turn. No problem, it is on a good drag setting, so I'll continue to fish it. Next day, fighting a 4 lb bonefish, reel handle falls off. I took it back to Orvis when I returned and they informed me they had recalled the reels for the exact same problems I had encountered.

David - one other rod you might want to consider would be the Redington CPS. I never liked their rods before, but I just picked up a 9'6' 6 wt for Puget Sound beach fishing. Very nice casting rod, maybe a poor man's XP?
You'll also get excellent service form them as well.

Best of luck with your decision. I've enjoyed reading everyone's input on your questions.
Brian

[D3smartie]

Brian- I think you will find a lot of love for TFO on here. In fact IMO probably more than the company deserves. I am tired of the TFO love fest. when i watch rods literally fall apart, it just sours me on a company. WFF has a love affair with TFO and if you say anything bad about them its because you are a holier-than-thou ahole flyfisherman... for me a rod should never just fall apart. i dont care how much you paid for it.
Redington has been getting a lot of good reviews finally. Good of you to mention them. That company was in the dumps for awhile but now that Sage has taken them over they are producing a pretty good product. The CPS is a great rod. Many people have compared it to the XP but its not quite. Still a good rod for the money. Got a very good review in the 8wt shootout.

[leadeyedbugger]

GO AND CAST SOME RODS.

That is the best way to determine which rod to get. I would try the TFO TiCrX, i owned one for a couple years, lots of water time for it, it works very well. The Echo Classic i own also, again good rod that i've had for years and serves me well. Cast a couple different Redingtions, Cast a New St.Croix Avid, i think these are great american made rods. Also cast the Scott V2 rod. Not the prettiest rod but it really preforms.......

Cast some rods, find the one that fits your casting style the best and get it. Personally i don't care too much about the "fit and Finish" of a rod, i care about how i can cast it and how it will preform for me.

[Abalone]

I think the discussion here has been great. It never hurts to get different views. While I do stand behind my input I don't have experience with the type of first you plan to target as some of these other guys have.

One other thing: Flyfishing Outfitters on Halsey does rent rods and they have a lot of experience with the kinds of fish you plan to target it Belize.

Give them a Buzz....

[daveg]

Time to put this thread to bed. I found all the input useful, thank you all. Since I have 14 months left to plan and gather equipment I can try and cast rods and look for deals.

Point well taken on used rod warranty issues, probably won't go that way unless it is a great rod in great shape at a good price.

I have seen Flip Pallot break Sage RPL Xi 11 weights on the early morning fishing shows, my friend was at Christmas Island and the Crazy Charlie hit his rod on the backcast it broke on the next fish he hooked.

The fishing is pretty expensive at T Flats, but the scuba diving and adventure packages are a great deal. If you want to check it out go to www.tflats.com , you will find information and pricing. I likely would have chosen another place and a later month if I was not planning to take Judy. There are other areas that the fishing is better for less money (Christmas Island).

I promise pictures and a narrative littered with lies April 2008, tight lines to all.

[B-RUN STEELIE]

I think Reddington makes the best rod at that price point. They cast well, look good, and have excellent quality control. I know a few hardcore TFO guys that are changing their minds on them.