Merc Kicker bafflement

[Pete]

I've got a 10 year old 8 HP 2-stroke Merc kicker that runs great ... unless I put oil in the fuel. I know the oil in the fuel is necessary to keep the rings lubricated, but when I do it smokes like a chimney and the plugs foul almost instantly. If I run straight gas, it doesn't smoke, the plugs still foul after about 10 hours, but the motor doesn't overheat. Anyone else have this problem? Am I going to regret not using more oil in my fuel?

[Phish_on]

No oil, no lubrication. In the long run that has to be bad!

HOW MUCH oil are you adding? Are you measuring accurately? 50:1 is something like 2.8 oz/gallon ...

I go through a lot of plugs on my ancient Merc. Just runs better with fresh ones.

[jawbreaker]

I had the same problem with mine. The solution for me was go with a 100:1 ratio and
whalaa....no more smoke. And, you won't go through so many plugs. You don't need a 50:1
ratio unless you open up the throttle wide open for long periods of time. For putting around like most of us do, the 100:1 will work just fine.

[WheresMyBobber]

Whatever you do, do not run a two stroke motor with no oil in the gas. You'll be buying a new motor very soon if you do that!

But as was mentioned by jawbreaker, lots of people run 100/1 instead of 50/1 in their trolling motors with no problems. I used to run 100/1 in my motocross bikes with no problems what so ever.

I sold my two stroke Merc kicker, but in my opinion, quicksilver is a crappy oil that burns dirty and leaves a lot of carbon buildup inside your motor. I switched to TC 501, which burns cleaner and has a no ash formula.

Another thing that can help is after each hour of so of slow trolling, it is always a good idea to run your kicker at higher speeds for five minutes or so. This helps to reduce carbon buildup, which can contribute to the smoke problem and fouled plugs.

[FishinMission]

The above comments are good..but I'd also check to see you're using the right spark plugs...perhaps a hotter plug would help. I run my 15 hp Merc on 100 to 1...but I wouldn't recommend that mix for anything other than and idle.And don't go without the oil!!!

[FishinMission]

One more thing....alot of people don't know you gotta "GAP" your spark plugs. Make sure you're doing that too.

[Pete]

Thanks for the feedback ... here are some more details. I've tried using 100:1 mixtures, but new plugs fouled out in half an hour at that ratio. I know I shouldn't run with no oil, so I always put some in the tank, but never very much. Maybe hotter plugs would work. She's a cold running old girl.

WMB: Tell me more about TC 501 ... what is it? Where do I get it?

[Phish_on]

I was also thinking you might want to wind it out (with OIL in the fuel) for a while to blow out some of the black crud. Yep, confirm the manufacturers recommendation on plugs and gap.

[WaterDog]

I have a 98 8hp Merc. It wouldn’t idle, smoked real bad, and the plugs were fouled. I took it in and the guy installed a thermostat (mine didn’t have one). Said that Merc doesn’t always install a thermostat for motors that are headed for this part on the country. Since there is no thermostat, the motor runs too cold and therefore doesn’t get hot enough to burn all the fuel. It now runs fine and smokes very little at a 50:1 mix. After a couple of hours trolling it will start to smoke and I’ll run it wide open for a minute and all is fine again. The mechanic also said to use premium gas.

[CAGEY]

Pete, WaterDog was spot on, do what he says, i had the same problem with a 1990 15hp and i also had mine rejetted and the fuel and air adjusted and a set of plugs would last for a year or longer. Whatever you do run oil in it or it wont last long.

[WheresMyBobber]

One thing to remember is that no outboard dealer or mechanic will ever recommend using anything other than what the engine manafacturer recommends. They'd be hanging themselves out to dry if they did that. Using anything other than what the manafacturer recommends will void any warranty and puts the turd in your pocket if you burn up the motor. But lots of people use 75/1 or 100/1 on their trolling motors since they're mostly used at low rpm's with no problems.

Here's some info on TC 501 oil I mentioned earlier. I use it on my two stroke 80hp Merc with oil injection.

It is made by Cenex, and is distributed by Country Energy LLC in Kansas City MO.

It is usually sold at co-ops - I believe the Hood River, Mt. Angel, and McMinville co-ops sell it. But, Toms Outboard Repair on Mcloughlin also sells it for around $12 per gallon.


Here is some info and a link on the oil, I hope it posts alright:

http://www.countryenergy.com/default...0-A574E09561F3

(scroll down to TC 501 and you'll find the info I posted below)

TC 501
Two Cycle Injector Oil
General Description
TC 501 is an advanced formulation ashless
two stroke engine lubricant that surpasses
the TC-W3 test procedures established by
the National Marine Manufacturers
Association (NMMA) for liquid cooled two
stroke engines using gasoline/oil mixtures,
including those with oil injection.
The NMMA TC-W3 specification
documents, in controlled and standardized
engine tests, oil performance in many areas
concerning engine operation. These tests
measure lubricity, deposit control, wear
control, compatibility with other registered
oils and the ability to readily mix with
gasoline.
TC 501 uses an SAE 40 base oil combined
with a diluent to insure thorough gasoline/oil
mixing. A state-of-the-art ashless additive
system prevents engine deposits and
provides a high level of resistance to
scuffing. Additive system treat rates ensure
proper lubrication and protection at the
same gasoline/oil mixing ratio as
recommended for the OEM (Original
Equipment Manufacturers) branded oil.
TC 501 mixes readily with ethanol blended
gasoline and stays mixed indefinitely. It is
recommended that engines be tuned for the
type of gasoline that is being used.
Features and Benefits
Engine Cleanliness: Advanced ashless
additive system keeps the engine clean
while operating at moderate to high
temperatures.
Wear Prevention: Careful base stock
selection provides engine protection under
heavy loads and extended operation at full
power by preventing scuffing and wear.
Ease of Mixing: Prediluted SAE 40
viscosity oil is easier to mix with gasoline.
Gas-to-Oil Ratio: Advanced formulation
allows TC 501 to be used at any gasoline/oil
ratio recommended by engine
manufacturers, including oil injection
systems.
Typical Application
Most water cooled and some air cooled two
stroke or two cycle gasoline engines.
· Outboard Motors
· Lawn Mowers
· Snow Blowers
· Motorcycles
· Garden Equipment
· Motor Scooters
· Snowmobiles
Some two stroke engines (especially certain
air cooled models) recommend an ash
containing detergent formulation such as TC
502 - check the appropriate application.
PDS-F1-99

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: WheresMyBobber ]

[finclipped]

I would definately take a look at that jet inside the carborator or just change it. I have had this exact problem with motorcyle motors, and boat motors. Both 2 strokes. The jet controlled the amount of fuel and oil that fouled plugs. Last time I checked they are only a few bucks to buy.

[Tanner]

Go to Mt. Angel or Hood River for that oil. I would not recommend giving that crook on McGloughlin any money.

[Pilar]

I have a 1999 Merc 15hp. This motor always runs good and never fouls. I have used 50:1 premium gas and Quicksilver from day one. Most of the service is trolling in forward. When running I always gun the motor every 5 minutes or so for a few seconds. This produces a large cloud of blue smoke and then it clears up.

Three things I am religious about on 2 stroke motors.

1) Always mix the fuel/oil exactly. Use a ratio rite or measuring cup and use fresh ingredients.

2) Try to run the motor under high load at the end of a period of trolling to burn the crud out of it. Putt around the marina while trailering the boat when you leave.

3) Always run the motor out of fuel after every use and flush the salt out of it.

This motor came stock with the thermostat. Maybe that makes all the difference.

The bend is your friend!

[HOGTIDE]

I have an auto-blend oil setup on my 8hp merc. I used to have fouling problems about every 50 hours of operation. Today,it runs like a sewing machine. I have learned to re-adjust the carb. screw from time to time. Read the manual, follow the instructions on carb adjustments procedure, and then turn it toward the 'lean' side as far as you can with the motor still idling smoothly. It only takes 5 minutes, no mechanical skill needed. My motor runs better today then it did in 1989.

i used to always run the gas out of my kicker, but dont anymore, with a empty carb your float and needle and seat will be bouncing around over every bump in the road and cause premature wear, with fuel in the carb your float and needle and seat will be cushioned and not bounce, just my .05 cents worth.

[Spooled]

Try Amsoil synthetic 2 stroke oil available at G.I Joes. 100:1 is their recommended mix. It will take care of your smoke problem as well as lubricate better than conventional oils. If your plugs foul on straight gasoline, you have a jetting problem with you carburator. You can also have the carbon cleaned out of the combustion chamber chemically, without removing the cylinder head. Talk to Terry at South River Marine (503)785-1426. Hope this helps.

[Fubby]

I have an 1989 Merc that I have used hard since it was new. I had it rebuilt last year and was having terrible problems with the smoking issue. I happen to know Spooled and he knows everything about engines. He turned me on to Aims Oil. you can reach them on the web at Aimsoil.com. The engine now pures like a kitten. I was ready to pitch it in the river. The other comment that I have is watch your oil injection system (if added to a small outboard)for failure. I have an OMC purchased at Stevens Marina and it is a piece of junk. The mechanic who rebuilt my motor told me that it is common for oil injectors of this type to fail. I pulled the injector, mix the gas with Aims Oil and have no more problems (at least with the motor)... Good luck

[Pete]

...more detail (as I am reminded of past "fixes"). My sled came one of those piece of ____ OMC oil injectors. It now collects dust in the back corner of my garage. I went through 4 of them trying to get one that worked. I installed a thermostat two years ago, but that didn't change anything. I suspect the jetting and lean adjustment are the keys. Leaner is hotter, right? Hotter means lubrication is more important, right? I'm a little reluctant to tear the sucker apart just as the sams start running thick, but I think I'll review the manual and stare at the motor with a screw driver in my hand ...

Thanks for the guidance. It sounds like we may be on to something.

[WaterDog]

I had one of those OMC oil injection things too. Never worked from day one. Stevens set me up with all the right pieces but when I used it, the motor was getting way too much oil. I agree it's a ***! At least I didn't have to pay the $$$ for it, they gave it to me.

[Spooled]

Thanks for the kind words Fubby. Pete, from what you are describing, your problem is not a lean mixture, but a rich one. There are two ways to foul a plug. One is with oil, the other is with fuel. If too much of either enters the combustion chamber, it will not completely burn and eventually foul the plug. A fouled plug will look wet from the unburned fuel or oil. It sounds like you have both problems. The oil problem is easily solved by using Amsoil www.amsoil.com at 100 to 1 mixture. It will cover your lubricating needs as well as reduce your smoke to virtually nill. I am not an Amsoil rep or anything, it is just that they have a product that works. All conventional oil contains parafins (wax) that are present in the base stocks (crude). Although some is removed in the refining process not all is. Synthetics are formed in a lab, therefore parafins can be left out from the start. Parafins cause smoke, light a candle to see. Since synthetics don't contain parafins they smoke far less and run cleaner. They also can take heat much better than conventional oil. They are more expensive, but at 100 to 1 you use half as much. I agree that an oil injector is not the way to go on such a small motor. Although a little bit of a pain to mix the gas and oil in a container or your tank, it is much more accurate. with a small motor, 5 gallons will last a long time.

Your second problem is a little more involved. You need to reduce the amount of fuel entering the cylinder to lean it out. You may need something as small as an adjustment, or as involved as a carb rebuild. I would recommend once again Terry at South River Marine. He knows his stuff and it probably won't be that expensive. I am sure he can have you in and out the same day with an appointment.

Your thermostat is a good thing as it allows your engine to run hotter. It sounds weird but a hotter engine is way more efficient and burns cleaner. You will notice with a thermostat, that water is not always spitting out the discharge hole. It only spits out when the thermostat opens to cool the engine. Before the themostat was installed, it would have a constant stream, never allowing the engine to overheat, but never allowing it to reach it's peak operating temperature.

Two more things. Ask Terry about the decarboning of the combustion chamber. This is a chemical process that will remove the deposits formed by your engine running rich. last I would install NGK spark plugs.

Your problems sound very similar to Nick's (Fubby Stucker) and he was sceptical. He was ready to by a new kicker his was smoking so much. He used his Sunday and is no longer in the market for a new kicker. No smoke and runs like a kitten. Fubby, you can owe me [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
Never mind, I almost forgot, you are the one who taught me how to fish. We are even. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: spooled ]

[ 03-26-2001: Message edited by: spooled ]

[Killertraylor]

Used to have a Merc. - thought about starting a class action lawsuit for "Troller-motor lung" My health improved when I upgraded to a 4 stroke Honda. I am a lawyer though, so if any of you guys want to band together and retain me, I think I can find a fishing doctor to diagnose trolling motor lung! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

[Spooled]

Yeah, there aren't enough baseless lawsuits congesting our courts already. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

have you ever been able to mix the gas and oil the correct way or did this all of a sudden start acting this way ??

[Killertraylor]

Spooled - that's exactly what I was pointing out...in a sarcastic kind of way.

[Jeffhead]

Lot's of good info here. One thing to add is my mechanic (Tom's Outboard in Olympia) has me do what Spooled talks about, decarbonize your trolling motors at least once a year. I can't remember the name of the stuff, but it is put out by OMC. You start the motor and spray it into the carb. The motor will run fora few minutes and then kill it and let it set. What it does is soak into the carbon buildup in the exhaust and loosens it up. Next time you start it a ton of carbon will blow out the exhaust. I have a 92 Evinrude 15 HP that I bought used from the Pt. Defiance Boat House, Tom had to pull the powerhead about a year after I bought it to clean out the exhaust. From all of the trolling the port was about a 1/4 the size it was supposed to be. May want to look at that also. My .02
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Captain Hook]

I've got a 15 horse '97 merc. When I try to accelerate from trolling speed, it tends to die. When I tilt the motor, gas and oil run out and over the handle, controls, etc. I had it in the shop three times, and they never succeeded in fixing it (both Cascade Marine and Stevens), I finally bought the service manual and intend to fix it myself. Before I tear into it, any ideas on what the problem is? It's been the worst motor I've ever owned!

[Spooled]

Captain Hook, I would check your carburator float level.

[Artwo]

Hey everyone,
I need a little help, I think my sometimers is kicking in here. I just bought an older (86) 8hp Merc kicker and I want to have it serviced. I don't know what the service history is on the motor so I want to have it go thru a complete tune-up and service. There was a thread/post that I can't find that was about South River on McGloughlin (sp) I think and gave the guys name to talk to. Can anyone help me out with this and/or where would you recommend me taking this motor for service. Spooled, I'm going to take your advice with the Aimsoil synthetic for my mix when I start using this motor. Thanks for all the good tips and stuff everyone, I'm a new kicker owner and all the info was a big help.

JK

[WaterDog]

Terry at South River Marine (503)785-1426.

It was in one of the above posts. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[Artwo]

Spooled/Waterdog,
Hey thanks for the info on Terry at SouthRiver. I called him about tuning my kicker and he seemed to be very knowledgable. He also quoted me a price that was about $35.00 less than Stevens in Tigard for the same service. Thanks again,

JK

[Artwo]

Waterdog.
Hey, thanks allot, I see it now that you reminded me were it was at. Thanks again.

JK