Let's share...(PFD event)

[corrirod]

Thank you to all who attended the PFD event on Sunday!

I apologize for the early morning scheduling but unfortunately that is the only time the pool has available for rent other than a short late afternoon time. Fortunately though, after each event I'm so glad I did because it really is worth it!

The reason I started this thread is so those who attended can share what things they learned from this event. Even though I attended I wasn't able to talk to everyone who tried different gear so I could get their feedback. The few I did talk to found out some great tips and things they plan to change or do better on their own boats, and those are things I'd like to change on mine as well.

Please take a minute to post up what things worked or didn't work. Tell us what new things you learned either from the demo or from the speakers.

As well, please tell me what things you'd like to see for our next event. I'll do whatever I can to make this event even better.

Thanks again for your participation and thank you very much to USCG Station Depoe Bay(CO Sparkman and I'm sorry I didn't get the name of the other gentlemen) and Charlie Bond who spoke at the event, and for Dean Fleck of Englund Marine for donating test vests and CO2 cartridges.

[corrirod]

Here's one I learned:

• When donning an Immersion Suit while in the water, you should not be going for SPEED. What I mean is, by not hurrying I actually put the suit on much faster then when I tried to be quick. The best method I found was to start with my feet and in order to get them in I had to hold my breath and go under water for a minute on each leg. Once I got them in the rest was easy because at that point you have plenty of buoyancy to stay up and get the rest of the suit on. This was a pool environment though and once you compound ice cold water with sloppy seas the difficulty level will go up exponentially.

Some of you may be wondering, "Doesn't getting the suit on in the water defeat the purpose of the suit?" Yes and no. Ideally I'd like to get the suit on before hitting the water, however it probably wasn't ideal conditions that put me in that position to begin with so I want to know that I can still get it on in the water if need be! :blush: I'm hoping if I can get it on in the water then I should be able to do it on deck also.

As was mentioned by Mr. Sparkman, a lot of times you only have seconds before the boat goes down.

[StickFish]

I learned that I need to have the strap on my SOSpenders just a little tighter and that once the bladder inflated I couldn't make the strap any tighter suspended in the water. I'm not talking snug, just a little tighter than my loose fist I was using. I did also learn I didn't need to let any air out of the bladder because I didn't find it uncomfortable around my neck at all - like I heard others talk about last year.

Now I need to learn how to fold the darn thing back up and get that strobe for it in there as well.

[bajadan2000]

Rod, a big thank you for yet again donating much of your private time to give something special to us Dawgs, and pass on a big thank you to Staff Jennings for again picking up the bill for this event. The water safety event was FREE to all that participated.

I found many things that worked and too many that did not work. Three of us entered the pool as a crew abandoning ship. Two wearing gumby emersion suits and one wearing a full float work suit.

One item that did not work were the lines to tie each other together which I keep in the ditch bag. They were too short. My plan to attach everyone by hooking lines with carabineers to the suit will not work for several reasons.

1) First, the attachment points on the suits are too weak and will separate from the suit in rough water.

2) We then tried to tie the ropes around our waist, they were too short.

3) The big surprise was how hard it was to use a carabineer with a gumby suit on. It took many tries to slide a rope into the spring loaded carabineer opening. Not sure how to make attaching lines to swimmers easier. We even lost one carabineer, that was tied on to the end of the line, in the water before we could attach it to the connecting point. Anyone have any ideas???


Another idea that needs work is the compass. When in the water, floating on your back, it is not possible to read a compass. In rough water, not sure how you could get a reading. We where using a magnetic type compass. Did anyone try an electronic type compass in the water???? Anyone have a solution to the compass problem??? Until a solution is found, I believe a compass is just extra weight for swimmers. If I had a raft, it would have a compass. ..

[skein]

Once again it was an eye-opener and a great learning/practice experience. This year I concentrated on my ditch-bag, and the results were mixed, some good - some bad.

The good:

* Contents: Handheld VHF, GPS, floating rope, handheld smoke and flare cartridge, and cyalume light-sticks.

* All my stuff was right there in a nice, compact little bag about the size of a throw-bag.

* The individual, clear, float-bags for my radio and gps worked great. I was able to turn both on and operate them, all while keeping them dry and attached to me by wrist lanyards. I could maneuver, i.e. swim for the life-raft, boat, etc, and they just trailed along behind, available but out of the way. Perfect. I even carried on a radio conversation with BajaDan.

The not-so-good:

* My ditchbag didn't float once I opened it. I will add some flotation to it, but I'm glad I found out in the pool instead of the Big Tub.

* Stuff, like flares and light-sticks, floated out of the bag and would have been lost in a real-world situation. I'll remedy that.

* My floating orange rope lay too low in the water to be readily visible, and was too stiff to effectively tie knots (or each other) with. I'll get a slightly larger diameter rope that floats higher and is more limber. I may add a crab pot bouy to each end for flotation and visibility.

And finally, Corrirod (or anyone) is REALLY REALLY HEAVY and very difficult to drag out of the water in a rescue situation. I dragged him up on the side of the pool, mimicking a swim platform on a boat, and it was all I could do. There is NO WAY I could have hauled him in over the side of a boat. The swim platform is very valuable in a case like that, but I honestly don't know what to do otherwise.

All in all, another FANTASTIC chance to try out our equipment and ideas in a controlled environment. There is NO SUBSTITUTE for an exercise like this.

Thanks, Rod, for putting it together, and thanks STAFF-JENNINGS for sponsoring it.

Skein

[edsr]

Rod - A big thanks to you and Staff Jennings. Pictures tommorrow.

edsr

[Bill Monroe]

Where to start...

Oh yeah, now I remember...I was the one whose auto-inflate...didn't.
Now I'm going to learn how to recharge and, especially, test them regularly. I'll pull the tabs on both my manuals as well.

It was eye-opening to hear the advice to wait and abandon ship at the last minute...
And to keep all the emergency gear together...
And to find one of those streamer thingies (not as tough to find for a Beaver).

Yes, there was one of our photograpers there and we'll run an outdoor page on what a great idea it is to know these things before something happens.

If anyone wants to help me point out details, please feel free to let me know how I can reach you...

And thanks again to Rod for pulling it all together.

[HOGGEMIN]

Rod thanks to you and staff Jennings.....


I learned that my auto worked this time and that my new Mustang Integirty bomber jacket worked great and did not ride up on my shoulders. I also bought a Strobe for both PFDs

[Flysnrides]

Thank you very much to Staff Jennings and Corrirod ,as well as the insructors who graciously showed up early Sunday morning to share their knowlege with us.

This was one of my favorite classes at the convention.

I have owned two auto inflatables for three years, and just took them for granted, which I know is a mistake for any equipment. I honestly did not know if they would deploy or not as I realized how much time had gone by without servicing them as recomended. They did perform , VERY well though.

Having now experienced how they work and feel when in the water I feel I can better explain to others on my boat what to expect, and how to adjust the flotation if need be.

I also had never used o throw bag, and was able to see several types. They work great.

As for life jackets, vests , jackets, waist bands ect, I agree that the best one is THE ONE YOU WILL WEAR

[blubeast]

This year I tried to focus on the 'free' survival suit I picked up. It worked great, (got 2 only brought one... note to self... also test other one ).

However,

it did point out the issues other mentioned... I need to create some way to attach to other crew members and keep ditch bag and contents close...

HUGE thank you to Rod & Staff Jennings for puting this on. The increase in attendence over last year speaks greatly to the increased awareness of the importance of testing your equipment.

[boutdoorhunter]

Sure wish I wouldn't have missed this one. Maybe one of you could some up what are the key items to check on all pfd's, what you should carry in a ditch bag etc. I thought about a dry bag for a ditch bag but sounds like I need something with more floatation. I'll make this event a priority next year. Thanks to all I still learned alot.

[skein]

PS. I just ordered my PLB on Mr Fisherman's group purchase.

THANKS, RAY!!!

Skein

[Onokai]

This pool event cost me over 200$. Thanks to Hoggamin. His float coat jacket works so well I ordered one at englands. Also learned that every brand of inflatatable jacket used different co 2 cartridges. One of mine is a bit rare and has to be ordered. This is something one should check out before purchasing.

The other thing I asked the coasties about was what color is best for visabity as far as rescue. Orange or neon yellow . Orange was depending on light condition best for daytime and night was far better with the lighter neon yellow-hence I ordered my float coat in yellow as it worked best overall. Mark

[bajadan2000]

Originally Posted by boutdoorhunter

Maybe one of you could some up what are the key items to check on all pfd's, what you should carry in a ditch bag etc. I thought about a dry bag for a ditch bag but sounds like I need something with more floatation. I'll make this event a priority next year. Thanks to all I still learned alot.

My thoughts on the value of this event is the TESTING of the equipment in the water.

An example.

The strobe lights worked well, however, I was amazed at the confusion added to the simple task of turning them on when in the water. Hard to describe "in the water testing"... it needs to be done in person to fully understand it's value or how each person interacts with their equipment in the water. The instructors discussed developing muscle memory through repeated practices. The logic of this becomes clear when in the water.

[Mr. Fisherman]

A big round of applause and a hearty THANK YOU to USCG Station Depoe Bay (Sparky and crew), Charlie Bond who spoke at the event, for Dean Fleck of Englund Marine, Rod Lee and Staff Jennings and everyone else involved with putting this together.
This year my son was able to try his new to him inflatable. It gave him a chance to actually try it in the water and to learn first hand about its features. He was also able to try getting into a life raft with the inflated jacket on. It was an eye opener for him and I appreciate it.
I was able to try my Rocket wear and it worked perfect. While I knew that it might float me without a life jacket the point was driven home in the pool. If you have ANY type of dry suit you SHOULD have a PFD to insure you float head up. If you were to get tossed around in the sea and get oriented head down allowing the air to travel to your legs you could be in serious trouble. If you have a PFD that trapped air is just extra flotation.

I learned that when you prepare to throw your safety rope in a bag you should just throw it dry instead of dipping it on the water and tossing it. Before the test I thought getting the bag and rope wet first would give it added weight allowing me to throw it further... It didn't work. When I dipped the bag into the pool then tossed it the coils contorted slightly and I believe the frictional surfaces from the wet and dry portions of the rope conspired to prevent free sliding of the mating surfaces on deployment preventing the bag from traveling the maximum available distance. In other words the rope balled up and the bag fell very short of my intended target. I was able to throw past my target with coiled wet ropes which was further than I thought I could throw it. Repacking the bag takes a lot of what would be very precious time and we discussed just towing the bag like a ski rope behind and around the victim in this event. Lesson learned, JUST THROW THE BAG, DO NOT PRE-WET IT.

I was also able to work with my son on the proper way to be pulled in by a rescue rope. The rope should be over the shoulder and the victim should be pulled backwards. It is not intuitave and I had to work on it with him because there is a strong desire for the victim to want to see where they are going. The problem is that in the ocean waves and swells can and likely will break over them when they are beining pulled towards the boat and they will be able to breathe better if they are being pulled backwards. It was a good practice session.

I also learned that it is a good idea to buy your recharge kit before you plan to test your PFD as mine was not available and I had to order it.

[skein]

Good point about towing someone backwards. I found that I could also move faster in the water by going backwards and kicking with my legs. That also allowed me to keep my arms at my side to conserve body heat. And as you said, with the wind and waves, going backwards can help keep you from having to face them head-on.

Skein

[iptmike]

I tested two automatic inflatables and a Mustang bomber style float coat. Both inflatables did open automatically, maybe 2-4 seconds after submersion. I noticed on the first that I had it fitted loosely and it rode up around my head. I tried to release some air and had to ask one of the coasties how. His instruction for just a simple adjustment could make a difference. I could not tighten the straps while floating in the water. I adjusted the straps on the second inflatable before jumping in and it fit much better. The straps need to be snug. I did release some air and reinflated with the tube just to try it out. A couple of breaths filled it right back up. I also noticed with both inflatables that it was very difficult to swim towards the side of the pool. I tried to swim floating on my back. Is there a better method?

The Mustang bomber style float coat fit much better while in the water. It would be my preference over inflatables. I tend to wear it while running the boat and switch to the inflatable while actually fishing.

The time in the pool is very worthwhile. I would recommend everyone try thier equipment. Thanks for making this opportunity available.

[fishbait]

I was very impressed with the bouyancy, warmth and comfort of my float coat. My problem is it usually take it off after a bar crossing or after we quit running and begin fishing.

In an abandon ship situtation and in the absense of a survival suit I think my first choice would be a float coat.

But for wearing while fishing, I think a new set of inflatable suspenders or vest are in my future. My SOS suspenders are now over 10 years old and I no longer trust them.

I know more practice with my new suspenders will be in order. When I jumped in with a borrowed inflatable vest, even though I knew what I was going to do, when under water a few feet, I did experience some minor confusion and mils suprise/shock for a few seconds and my goal of instantly pulling the cord was not as easy as I thought it would be. In cold water, choppy seas and an unexpected submersion "muscle memory" would be a very big item.

Major thanks to all as you sit back and think about all the effort this event took, please remember that you might have been partially responsible for saving someones life.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

[Salty Walty]

Big Thanks to Rod and Staff Jennings for Sponsoring this event.
I found out I was on the Pill. Meaning my PFD had a pill that dissolved to set it off.
I was glad to see the # of us that now have the automatic inflatables. They are comfortable and if this makes you wear them the are worth it. There were about 3 times as many as last years event. There were many different models and it was good to see what goodies came with each one and the fit once inflated was. Mr. and Mrs. Wetfly had some Mustangs that carried a spare cartridge. This was pretty handy when his did not go off. I have Stearns and compared them with the Mustangs. When inflated the Stearns were stiffer and one shape. The Mustangs had a slight bend in them that made them look a little more comfortable.
Charlie was a great speaker and one thing that really hit home was that you must become familiar with your equipment before you need it. Testing it out so you know how to adjust the straps and where the to pull and train yourself to do it. The time to learn that you tucked the tab in or have not made yourself familiar with its working are not in an emergency situation.
To me this is one of the most important parts of the Convention for all of us. It give us the oppurtunity to do an actual test of our equipment in good conditions. One has to only look above to see how much others have gained by being able to see their gear in an actual situation to see how they could improve it.

[Mr. Fisherman]

I meant to bring this up at the pool, but... I think we should set aside time at the pool after the testing to hold a discussion while this is all still fresh in our wet heads. a smple 30 minute session dedicated to what did you learn today.
What do you think?

[skein]

Great idea, Mr Fisherman. Nothing like debriefing while everything is fresh in your mind -- and close at hand.

But it might be hard to pull it off. For example, Janis and I had to scamper over to the marina for the trailer-backing clinic, and I know others were anxious to get to this demo or that. In other words, there were lots of distractions grabbing at our time.

But the idea is too good to let pass. How can we make it work?

Skein

[Mr. Fisherman]

Originally Posted by skein

But the idea is too good to let pass. How can we make it work?

Skein

A schedule and a timekeeper...

[TROPHY1]

As all have said THANKS for putting this together.
Thanks to Charlie Bond for loaning me two different inflatables to try on.
1) First I tried out my Standard Comfortable Type 11 life jacket that I have for all on my boat. It floated me high but when I immitated what may happen with a big wave coming down on top of me unless my arms were down, it could have easily pushed me right out of the jacket and it would I think an inexperienced person.
2) Then I tried a inflatable suspender type, not self inflating, and to find the pull cord without without practice in a cold water shock situation may be trouble for inexperienced ones I often have fishing with me. It floated me well though once inflated.
3) The third test was with the Belt puch type, again manual inflating with pull cord, this took some adjustment once inflated, pulling it over my head seemed a natural response yet the pressure put on the waist strap was too tight and I had to let some air pressure off then it was fine.

The strobe lights on both inflatables did get some attention and that is a good thing.

My Conclusion: I do not want to be waiting around IN THE Cold WATER for rescue even with my PLB activated. A Rescue Pod or raft of some sort with my ditch bag will be on my boat before my off shore season begins and life jackets will still be required to be worn. An immersion suit may be fine for me but I take a lot of first timers or once a year guys that will not realistically have opportunities to practice donning a suit like that and their lives are just as important as mine. Floating hypothermic bodies will just not do.

[SeaJayOR]

Thanks Rod for putting this on. I'm glad I drug myself out of bed for this invaluable test at 8am .

I use a Stearns floatcoat my girlfriend bought me a couple years ago. I either have it on or nearby at all times. It worked much better than I anticipated. I learned it is much easier to put on before you go in the water. This probably holds true for all life vests.

She bought me a blue coat hoping I would wear it more often. She was right. I need to get a whistle, strobe and possibly a streamer for visibility.
I also will probably get a Mustang vest eventually and hopefully have the best of both worlds as well as redundancy.

I will acquire more gear as time goes on. But as Sparky said "stay with the vessel as long as possible". Since it's a Whaler I'm hoping I could. Of course there are always scenarios where that may not be possible.
A lesson well practiced - being prepared.

CJ

[iptmike]

I want to report a NEGATIVE experience with the inflatables. I have 2 Sterns auto inflatable vests that I jumped into the pool with. Both worked well and I feel more comfortable in knowing how they perform. I went to West Marine to get the rearming kits and discovered both models have been discontinued. One of the vests is 4 or 5 years old and the other is 2 years old. They gave me a number to contact Sterns so I hopefully can still get the rearming kits. But if not, the inflatables carry a high price tag if they are disposible.

As a side note, when I had originally purchased one of the above vests, it came with the gas cylinder seperate. I had to arm the vest. I had the boat I owned at that time parked in my shop. I was sitting in the boat trying to insert the cylinder to arm the vest. I evidently did not have the cylinder inserted correctly because when I pulled the lever down to puncture the cylinder the compressed gas began to escape. I released the cylinder and it took off like a rocket. I was glad that it was not pointed at my head. I wasn't so glad that this little rocket shot right into my wifes new 2005 Saleen Mustang that was also parked in the shop. After a trip to the body shop to repair the dent from the rocket, I figure this particular inflatable has cost me $1000. My wife said she would have rather the cylinder hit me instead of her car. I think she was kidding. This is the first time relaying this story. Needless to say I've been quite embarassed.

Maybe this inflatable has bad karma and I would be better off replacing instead of rearming. Who knows what would happen if I actually needed it.

[Mr. Fisherman]

Iptmike, It sounds like there is a reason that that particular PFD has been discontinued. I would recommend contacting Stearns customer service to let them know what your experiences were. Perhaps there was a recall? Had you registered the device after you bought it? This might be a good example of why you fill out that registeration card that comes with these products? You will likely get the vest replaced and there is a slim chance they could be liable for any damages incured.
I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV but this would seem to have better grounds for a damage claim than a hot cup of coffee .

[corrirod]

At the very least I would hope you could send those back to Stearns and receive some sort of discount to purchase new vests? Let us know how this turns out.