BYCATCH = OCEAN **** / ECO DESTRUCTION

[ssteelheadsteve]

Ok Ifish special guest bio's.Tell the folks about bycatch in the North Pacific.IMHO. If PETA,the Public,Congress and reasonable minds were informed about bycatch off the Pacific Coast they would be outraged to the point of ending all trawel/drag operations within 200 miles.
How many million metric tons of sealife are killed as bycatch each year?
The last agency report I read stated that over 86% of drag boat catch was thrown back in the Ocean.That's 86% of the catch returned to the ocean DEAD. Other reports I have seen claim thet bycatch accounts for over 96% of a draggers KILL. New rules were proposed this year to allow dragers/trawlers to sell marketable non target species like Salmon & Halibut.I assumed they passed.If they did pass then you can expect them to target those fisheries sonner than latter.Besides being a very powerfull lobby lets not forget that hundreds of people are employed by state & federal agencies in the monitoring/management of the trawl fisheries.Do you really think they would do anything to jepordise their jobs?

FYI

If you took the time to read this you might also be interested that there are over 300 people on the west coast who are directly employed in the management of pinapeds.Thats Seals,Sea Lions and the like.No wonder the states can not get controls on the number of Seals.With perhaps 3 million fish using the Columbia we are managing pinaped populations based on an escapement of 16 million fish.This same ratio is being used in pinaped management from CA to Alaska.Pray for faster fish...............

[smilesforu]

We use to have a local true cod fishery that was incredible. In comes the draggers and it has never recovered. A real shame to see a fishery that good destroyed because of greed and mismanagement.

[Pete]

SSSteve, the information you share is very important for all us fishers. However, to accomplish change with this information we need to be able to say more than, "I know it's true 'cuz SSSteve said so". Why not post the name of the agency and the title of the report. I, for one, would like to read it.

[LDR]

I've been lurking for a while and feel like adding my $.02 on this one. If these numbers are true, and I think that for certain fisheries they may be relatively close, then something needs to be done. The feeling I get from sssteve, and this may be wrong, is that he would like to see the commercial trawl industry shut down. Until all of our fish are farm raised, I don't think this is going to happen. What does need to happen however, is the management needs to change. And the management is going to change.

The problem is fishermen catching the wrong species of fish. Right now, managers can control the fishing gear types and times to protect certain species from being bycatch. When tons of non-target fish are stilll caught, what do you do? Throw them away, or bring them in? They are dead either way, the best thing to do is bring them in and try to find a use for them. BUT, to avoid fishermen targeting certain non-target fish, say chinook, in my opinion they should not get paid market value for them.

What a lot of the problem comes down to, is that there is no data on what the fishermen throw back. I don't know where sssteve gets his numbers, but as a former ODFW temporary worker, I know that they only have 6 or 7 biologists working on commercial fisheries. And there is no money or personnel, at this time, for a comprehensive observer program. AND, there is no incentive among agency workers to allow fishermen to destroy the resource! Most people got into this field to protect the natural resources, and are working their behinds off for little money and vey little thanks!

National Marine Fisheries is attempting to start a large observer program from CA to AK (This is not being helped by the hiring freeze implemented by the new president). This will provide needed info on the discared rates of trawlers.

Sorry about the long winded post. This is a big problem, hopefully the management can change fast enough to keep up with it.

LDR

[This message has been edited by LDR (edited 03-20-2001).]

[spooner]

leting them keep there by cach wont work all they will do is what thet allwase have done HIGH GRADE if there geting .20 for red snaper and 1.30 for halibut what do you think there going to fill there hold with and what will go over the side dead.dragers are the most destuctive type of fishing ever. where do i sign to get rid of them who do i wright. if we all get together we can make a diferance peaple got together years ago and band them frome south east alaska lets ban them off the coast of Oregon.WHO'S WITH ME

This is an interesting and important issue for sure. I brought it up in
a recent post titled "One way to get springers - how about us?". In my
post I revealed that I got information from a reliable source that the
commercial draggers were targeting the stacked up springers off the
mouth of the Columbia River. The source happens to be a commercial
fisherman who I can't reveal for obvious reasons. He says there is a
large springer by-catch these draggers are targeting and getting because
of the new rules. So this coraborates what sssteve has posted above. In
my thread ISG denied that this is occuring. He gave no documented evidence
by Gov observers or inspectors to support his claim. Now sssteve has
posted the draggers were wasting, and now target by-catching big numbers
of ocean fish stocks, including the salmon. His stated source is an
"agency report". I do believe what my source learned from ground zero, but
I cannot prove it. I ask on behalf of Ifishers and salmon fishing
interests for ISG and sssteve to now post their angecy document sources
and figures that they have based their opposite claims upon. Let's get
to the truth. Let's get it out into the public view. If it's
demonstrated that something here is very awry, let's get after it in a
number of ways. It starts with your words to the proper angency
authorities, legislators, and politicians. ...

Also sssteve, you stated that "hundreds of people are employed by state
& federal agencies in the monitoring/management of the trawl fisheries.
Do you really think they would do anything to jepordise their jobs?".
... I am a bit confused as to whether you are contending the percentage
figures you posted must be correct because these people's jobs are on
the line if they get things incorrect, or are you contending that these
people 'overlook' and don't report improper or controversial by-catches
because if the trawl industry were significantly curtailed then the
monitors and managers could be cut out of jobs? If it's the latter,
whose data are we to believe that you and ISG might use? Please
enlighten us as to what you meant by that statement. And what do you
suggest we do about this problem? Thanks. - RT

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Also, in addition if those guys lose their jobs, they qualify for retraining by The Dept. of Labor and Industries....if they are a "classifed" employee. I am not sure about "exempt" employees though, since they are on a contractual basis with the state that has to be renewed each year. Classifieds get the retraining (or qualify for it) if they become unemployed. That is, if they don't go an reapply somewhere else with their present creditials. This applies for WA employees.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Just look at how poor the South Puget Sound is from draggers. When was the last time we had strong numbers of fish?

[orsturgeon]

I can believe that the draggers are picking up salmon. I do not believe that they are allowed to keep them. Therefor there is no reason for them to target them.

The bycatch issue is huge, there are some species that are quite abundant, many that are not. What do you do? Make them quit fishing altogether?? Find a use for the unwanted/non-allowed catch???

Orsturgeon, you may be correct, judging from this info sent to me today (Wed.):

The Marine Region personel in Newport and Astoria says that they can't sell salmon that are caught in the commercial drag nets in the ocean. According to ODFW rule 635-004-0025 #2,(a) It is not legal to sell species other than ground fish/Ocean Food Fish. By definition according to rule 635-004-0020 #10 Ocean food fish (ie ground fish) does not include salmonids or halibut. So in other words, a commercial drag fishery according to these two OAR's cannot sell either species. This was taken from the ODFW website which was updated 3/19/2001.

The bycatch must be thrown over board; the only time it is permitted to be brought to shore is during a developmental fishery such as the hake fishery (whiting) and it cannot be sold then either. It is sampled by ODFW or WDFW biologists and then donated to charities.

Selling bycatch of salmon is not something the legislature of OR or WA can just pass. These are governed and regulated by federal authorities such as the Pacific Fisheries Management Council, the National Marine Fisheries Service, and if you through the Halibut into the mix, the International Pacific Halibut Commission. The former two agencies would never allow such a preposterous mismanagement to occur within the commercial drag fishery. Just to many ESA ramifications to deal with. ....

.... After reading this, and assuming proper objective departmental observations afield, I would conject that the info passed to me by a commercial fisherman about the trawl drag by-catch of salmon would most likely be incidental and light, rather than targeted and heavy. Other by-catch may likely be another story as sssteve contends. I have no data to base an opinion on that matter, but still hope it's forthcoming. - RT

[sinker]

I'm not sure what the numbers are but a buddy of mine was going halibut fishing last year out of Neah Bay or Seiku and was telling me about the bycatch numbers up there. If I remember right the commercial salmon guys were allowed so much halibut as bycatch. And they were getting it. Come on, you're telling me that you have to drag the bottom to get salmon and **accidentally* get halibut. If I remember right it was like 3lbs salmon to 1lb/halibut. Not real sure on those numbers but I do remember they were ridiculous.

[sinker]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also sssteve, you stated that "hundreds of people are employed by state
& federal agencies in the monitoring/management of the trawl fisheries.
Do you really think they would do anything to jepordise their jobs?".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This reminds me of the war on drugs, there's to many people making a VERY good living to want it to stop.

[Scaup]

This link gives statistics on the salmon and halibut bycatch in Alaska. For example there were an estimated 26000 chinook salmon caught in the Gulf of Alaska on trawl gear.

I have been unable to find any similar statistics published about Oregon and Washington. The NW Region of the NMFS does not appear to keep as detailed statistics, or at least they don't put them on the web site.
http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/2000/2000.htm