Another Sewage Spill!?!?! Arrrrrgggghhhh

[TheRogue]

Unbelievable!!! Another 3+ million gallon raw sewage spill from the Portland area, into the Willamette toilet!! Apparently, the power was off for 5.5 hours, and the backup power source was unavailable. And no-one seemed very concerned on the TV news, that's for sure. "Just make sure you wash your catch well before eating" was the standard comment.

If one logger lands a tree in the middle of a stream, the wrath of the Almighty State appears from above and throws fines and bureaucratic paperwork in piles. But 3+ million gallons of raw sewage, and we get a "wash your catch"????? And the anchor person also quoted a source which said that 2 BILLION GALLONS of raw sewage are dumped in yearly in the Metro area, although most come in high water overflow times (Oh, yeah, I feel much better about that).

At what point in time do urban folk start paying the price that the rest of Oregon has been paying for years??????

Sorry, just venting.

TheRogue

[bajaspecial]

We need more venting...
http://www.kgw.com/kgwnews/top_story.html?StoryID=16037

Quote from the article...

“Officials warned residents Sunday to avoid swimming or BOATING in the river for 48 hours,”
...
...
...
Meanwhile in the White House...
http://www.kgw.com/kgwnews/nationwor...?StoryID=15768

Oh, that **** you off, try this...
http://www.kgw.com/kgwnews/nationwor...?StoryID=16002

Bush 2, fishermen/women 0

Oh, want more! http://www.sightings.com/general9/blub.htm

C’mon...let's vent.

[This message has been edited by bajaspecial (edited 03-18-2001).]

[Rippenlips]

Thats disgusting!!
I think we should weld a plate over the pipe in the middle of the night so that when the power goes down maybe someone will get their butt out of bed and do something.
Jon

[Pete]

And I suppose this is the same pump station at the Burnside bridge that was upgraded last year after a sewage spill due to a power failure? Makes me feel great about the $1500 a year I pay for sewer and water service.

[Trick]

We should be proud of the Superfund listing for the sewage bowl of Oregon. What's the problem? They're going to clean it up anyways so lets keep filling it up. It's cheaper than fixing the root problems. Who cares if we get cancer and other health problems from eating the fish, that's what doctors are for. They'll cure us, right?

Enough to make you scream. I get worried sometimes about my current and future personal health from 30 years of growing up on the banks of the Columbia. It's getting pretty scary.

[DF]

I cant belive this CRAP

[Finn-icky]

I certainly don't like what happens when heavy rain events happen and overflows occur. Nor do I like what happens when power outages cause problems. What most people don't understand is that it was the city fathers 20 some plus years ago who made the deicision not to upgrade the sewer system to keep pace with the population growth. Much is being done now to fix the problem, but it will not happen over night. By the year 2010 the upgrades will be some what complete, but more will still have to be done.
As far as power outages go, blame the power company. The city has back up power at all major locations, which provide power without having a body there to start it. Once in a while that system could fail, but even at that, people are required to be on pager duty to respond to problems. They are normally there within an hour to make needed repairs. Try getting your tail out of bed at 2 in the morning to fix a problem. I no doubt sound like I'm defending the city, but I'm not. I happen to know more about this issue because I work for the city. They are no different than any other government agency. Mistakes are made, but the majority of people I know that work for the city are dedicated people who don't like what happens any better than you do. They are retricted by red tape to get some things done. The reseon for delays is that laws have been passed to protect the people's money from being abused, and this is what slows the process down. Enough for now. I may have lite a tourch here, but argue all you want. I suggest you have your facts straight before I will respond.I will not debate someone who is arguing out of emotion.

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Sounds like Oregon needs to get their Sh*t together. (no pun intended)

What happens, as far as punishment, when heads have to roll for environmental disasters like this one?

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Ok finn-icky, quick question here: Well if all the upgrades will be implemented by 2010, are those on course for today's population and not the population of 2010? Would really hate to hear about how these upgrades are "10 years behind" in 10 years.

There are 2 neighboring small towns in LA (lower Alabama) and they share the sewage caretake, but one of the cities is not holding up there end of the bargain so they are getting sued. In retaliation, they may cut off all services on their part. Well to make a long story short, the EPA (or some other initial abbreviated agency) will fine the smaller city $100,000 a day until it gets controlled. Are these same guidelines covering your city? I'm not speaking with too much emotion (just yet...well I'm hiding it well). I'm just trying to hear the whole story before I pursecute.

[Pete]

I guess the whole situation is gonna get really stinky. Several other municipal sewage spills in the last few years have resulted in fines. When the Feds declared the Portland harbor area a superfund site they also took responsibility for clean up and pollution control. I'm wondering how long it will take to get a fine in place, or if sewage spills will be given the same lax treatment carbon dioxide pollution was recently accorded.

These avoidable 'spills' cause a lot of crap to flow; pun intended. We know about the brown trout releases, but the excuses that fly afterward just don't cut it! Sorry, Fin. The employees may care, but then the management must suck big time for this to be an ongoing problem. As 'Yall said, they need to get their sh*t together from now on! It's a bad thing anytime of the year, but right into springer season when so many more boats are out there on the cess pool is particularly galling. And there was no lame "rain caused overflow" excuse available to them this time! - RT

[SureSet]

I'm certainly not mad at the guy whos running the pumphouse, what irritates me more is the city leadership.

As I understand it, the plan calls for upgrading the sewer systems by 2010. When I ran across some EPA/DEQ docs a few months ago, they reflected how distorted the view of the city leadership is. Rather than commit to the sewer repair, they asked the DEQ to extend the deadline because they felt that it was too much money to spend on just the "sewer", and some should be spent on riparian(sp?) habitat and green spaces. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not against more of those, but from my perspective that is like putting a new paint job on a '68 SAAB. The DEQ declined to extend and for once I appriciate the DEQ.

Our beloved mayor seems to like to spend money on the "pretty and visable" and skip the down and dirty stuff that needs to be fixed.

That's what makes me mad.

SureSet

[This message has been edited by SureSet (edited 03-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by SureSet (edited 03-19-2001).]

For heaven's sake don't light a torch here, the whole damned river might go up in flames.

This crap happens far too often. When a company dumps waste into the river and they occasionally get caught they sometimes get fined. I would think that the city should get fined until they fix this issue because it's evident that it is far from failsafe.

[Finn-icky]

All good arguments, and I agree with parts of it, but I will now try to set it straight. Point one, the cost is enormous (billions) and if the work was to be done any sooner the rate payers would have a real fit. The city does not grow money trees. Yes, it appears that there are some people who doen't really care much, but is this not true at any job? Exceptions would be the self employed.
I spoke with the individual that was on pager duty during this overflow. What has happened is a few weeks back when the big sink hole took out front Ave. The back up electrical feeder to the pump station faulted. The power company re-routed to a different sub-station, the same sub-station for the primary feeder. Thus a single point failure area. Sure enough, the sub-station had a big problem and could not get power to the pump station. This was not told to the city by the power company. A generator was brought to the station for back up power, but this all takes time. The main power was restored prior to completing the gen. set hookup. The city does, and no doubt will continue to make mistakes, but none of them just for the hell of it. In this past case, the power company made the mistake. I said before that I don't like it any better than any of you. I can only do the best job I can to try to make things better. Those of you that live in the city and pay sewer rates need to look into all the things the city is trying to do with the funds you pay. Get invovled in the decision process. There are several community groups that are working with the city to better define the needs of the entire city.

[Finn-icky]

I wish to respond directly to two of you that have shared your thoughts. First goes to RT. You say that these overflows are preventable, and in some cases I would agree. However the reason this still occurs is that the upgrades are not completed yet. Believe me, I wish they where. My job would certainly be much easier.
Second person would be fobbman. You point out that fines are placed on companies that release bad things into the enviroment. This is a true statement. The city has been for the most part, helping the DEQ people to identify these offenders. Yes, an arguement could be made that this is not right when the city also releases bad things into the enviroment. The big difference here is that the city does not do this intentionally. And yes, the city does get fined also when an avoidable release has occured.
For the rest of you, don't shoot the messenger. I am only trying to let all those folks that love the sport of fishing and other out door activities as I do, be informed on what is happening presently to those who pollute our rivers and air. I would also like to remind everyone that sometimes there is some rather sensationalized reports from the media. In this case channel 8 was rather irresponsible in their reporting. Personal opinion only. They where given the information that I have shared, but it didn't have enough gloss, so they once again did their spit & shine approuch. Enough said. I appreciate that so many of you are concerned about these events. I can only say, get involved if you truely care.

Thank you for your insight Finn-icky. I appreciate that you are stepping forward to answer some questions, and if anyone is trying to shoot you it's because they're the normal drunks with guns that we'all know and lo....er....stomach.

It's a frustrating system, I agree. Possibly the Willamette River superfund listing will make available the money necessary to fix this problem.

[Artwo]

Finn-icky,
I want to thank you as well for your input, it has informed me more about the particular situation at this pumping station more. I would however have to disagree with the statement that you made about the back-up feeder mistake being the fault of the power company. I am a electrical designer and I work with many major industrial customers all around the world in regards to the power distribution needs for their plants. In my opinion it was the city's responsability to make sure that the pump station was properly backed-up, especially since it was a station that is prone to having prblems. I understand that your just the messenger so nothing personnal just my opinion. Keep keeping us informed with the goings on of the city and hopefully this pumping station will get fixed before 2010.

JK

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

Thanks for the insight finn-icky. Hey, I'm not one of the guys that was trying to shoot the messenger (at least I hope I didn't come off that way). I just had a couple of questions and also gave a scenario that is taking place back in Alabama that I know of.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Finn-icky]

Thanks for allowing me to vent some of my own frustration with what happens enviromentally. I was given some more information this morning that will help clarify this issue some more. Apparently a foreman for the power company that was working the sink hole mentioned to a city employee that the back up feeder would be unavailable until the sink hole was fixed. I recognize the city has some fault to share based on not following up on backup feeder alignment. The important information apparently was shared, but between the wrong people. The city employee that the power company claimed to have talked to was from a completely different section of the city and simply must not have sensed the importance of the matter. The damage is done and even though this has been a horrible incident, I for one think leasons have been learned. Thanks again for the comments.