lynx in oregon???

[kill2hunt]

i know there was a thread months ago about this but i think it is very interesting. i was just reading about a survey the odfw took and it was quite convincing, they set up "scratch sites" at different locations that were pieces of carpet with tacks sticking out of it placed on trees high in the cascades. they then sprayed lynx urine on it.when they collected the hair off them it was confirmed that indeed there was lynx hair on several of the different sites, all of which were within a 100 mile radius. they said lynx roam far so they dont yet know if it was from one or more but they are doing the tests to determine.

now that being said i was just wondering if any of you have seen one in the wild here in oregon? im sure some of you probably have or know someone who has. i believe to have seen one, standing in the middle of a road near detroit lake. it gave us, my father and another born and raised oregonian how has spent his share in the woods a really good look at his long legs mask and ears! he was alot more grey than a normal bobcat. once off the road we were all in shock, kind of not believing what we just saw. we took about three more turns in the road and there in the middle of the road stood a bobcat! what are the chances of that? totally two different species.

i was just interested in hearing all of your stories

[Abalone]

This is a question that comes up almost anytime I have an encounter with a Bobcat. I wouldn't base my observation on color. I have seen two Bobcats this year at very close range. On was less the twenty feet from me and it was very dark grey and bigger then the second one. The second one I shot in the neck at Thirty yards and it was a very light color female.
I believe the first cat I saw was a male cat because males are about ten pounds larger then a female.

Lynx in Oregon are rare and they are more common North in Canada.

[Abalone]

Many confuse the Bobcat with the Canadian Lynx. The bobcat is more brown, with indistinct spotting and dark bars on forelegs; legs are shorter; tail is black but the bottom is white, lynx have a black band that encircles the entire tail; bobcats have smaller ear tufts. The coloration of lynx varies but is normally yellowish brown. The upper parts may have a frosted, gray look and the underside may be more buff. Many individuals have dark spots. The greatest difference between the two though, is the Canadian Lynx has quite large furry paws. This helps distribute the weight of the Lynx when moving on snow.

I would always assume a cat was a Bobcat and not a Lynx until an expert were to convince me otherwise.

Bobcat or Lynx? Although they are very similar in appearance , there are a few morphological characteristics that differentiate the bobcat from the Lynx. Bobcats can be distinguished visually from lynx by their smaller foot pads, slightly longer tail, shorter black ear tuffs and more well defined spotting on the coat. The tail of the lynx is shorter than the bobcat’s and ends in a black tip that completely encircles the tail (Figures 1 & 2). The bobcat’s tail is longer, and has banding on the upper surface only (Lariviere and Walton 1997, Anderson and Lovallo 2003).

Fig. 1. Bobcat tail (left) vs. Lynx tail (right). SOURCE: Jackson (1961).

The bobcat’s foot pad is smaller than that of the lynx, which hinders movement in deep snow. This limited mobility in areas of deep snow makes capturing prey more difficult and may serve as one of the limiting factors for the bobcat’s northern distribution (Quinn and Parker 1987, Anderson and Lovallo 2003). On average, adult bobcats are slightly smaller than lynx (Figure 2). However, because of the range of body size for bobcats, they often exceed the size of lynx in areas of sympatry (Buskirk et al. 2000, Anderson and Lovallo 2003).

Fig. 2. Bobcat (bottom) vs. Lynx (top).

[baltz526]

yes there are lynx in oregon. go to the upper owhyee river country to look and the central cascades. just do not ask any biologist or person in the know this question, they will call you a bobcat viewer with no concept of what you see.

[Chug]

The local Roaming logging Road Lawdog, spotted one. Said its not a bob cat, or cougar. He does know his critters. hard part of his job, to roam the woods & call it work. I heard of other spottings with in 5 miles of area. ODFW, said few years back on that last spotting, NOT A CHANCE, they are not this far south. Fellow who spotted cat, knows what they are, gave great detail to the agent. from what I heard of that story, Told agent he will just shoot The thing next time. It went south from that point.

My trail cam is in same area That Roaming Lawdog spotted lynx. I am Hoping to catch a photo, (rare chance Very rare). Would be a cool screen savor, Not to mention. OFW would get a nice time/date temp photo & GPS

All I can do is keep my trail cam rolling, hoping for that ONE SHOT.

My luck would get big foot instead

[tracker]

Before you believe anything that was gathered in this survey, remember back a few years whenone of these surveys was tainted by the very bio's doing the test. I believe they were trying to use the presence of lynx to shut down a portion of forest for some reason or other. Same thing happened. They did their test and found lynx hair as you stated. Were going to do their closure until it was discovered the hair was all from the same lynx and the funny thing was it was from a lynx that had been dead for many years. I have more than a healthy disbelief in most of these surveys as a result. I will believe what I my self see. I am sure someone here can clear up my foggy facts a bit on this matter.
Anyway those mountains are big and wild and animals dont know they are not supposed to be there. So look around they do.

[Snug 2]

Here's the story... Kind of long

Scientists' 'wild hair' really wasn't
Fur from tame lynx was inserted in samples to test laboratory's ability
Tuesday, December 18, 2001
By LISA STIFFLER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
Snowmobilers and timber groups are wondering if government biologists have cried "lynx."
State and federal biologists recently admitted to planting fur samples in a survey to determine the distribution of Canadian lynx in national forests. Three samples taken from captive cats were added to samples reportedly found in the Wenatchee and Gifford Pinchot national forests.
But the biologists, who notified interested parties of what they did, said the samples were added to make sure the lab analyzing the fur was able to successfully detect lynx with its DNA analysis.
"It's a way of testing if a lab knows what it's doing," Doug Zimmer, spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Lacey, said yesterday. "It was not an attempt to put lynx where they're not."
Lynx were found in the Okanogan National Forest in the survey, but not the two forests to which the samples were added. The false samples were removed from the study and did not taint its outcome. Samples were collected again this year.
If lynx -- which have protection as a federally threatened species -- had been found in Wenatchee and Gifford Pinchot national forests some activities, including snowmobiling and tree cutting, could be curtailed.
The elusive cat, with its broad, furry paws, is well-adapted to hunting snowshoe hares through snowy drifts. The snowmobiles pack the drifts and give unfair advantage to other predators competing with lynx for prey. Thickets of lodgepole pine need to be maintained as habitat for the hares.
Even if the lynx were shown to reside elsewhere in Washington, changes in land use would come slowly and would not necessarily be severe.
"Nothing would change overnight," said Rex Holloway, spokesman with the U.S. Forest Service.
Chris West, vice president of the timber group the American Forest Resource Council, said he wasn't sure the government biologists were trying to falsify results, but was concerned about the study.
"There's already been some funny business going on with the lynx," he said.
A few years ago, an Oregon lynx study performed by a contractor hired by the Forest Service was called into question, West said. The contractor claimed to find lynx, but the results could not be validated and the contractor was not paid.
The seven biologists who were part of the government study included employees of the Forest Service, Fish and Wildlife Service and state Department of Fish and Wildlife. An investigation was conducted into the adding of the samples as soon as it was discovered, and the scientists involved were taken off the project, agency spokesmen said.
"This is a very, very isolated incident," Zimmer said.
The samples falsely added to the survey came from two lynx, one belonging to a federal scientist doing research and the other from a wild-animal park, he said. "If you were really going to skew something, you would use samples that you picked off the wild."
In experiments, "control" samples can be added to test techniques, but their addition was not included in the protocol for this particular survey.
The incident could undermine the integrity of the research.
"It jeopardizes the whole process of trying to protect the lynx in the first place," said Glenn Warren, president of the Washington State Snowmobile Association, a group of about 2,300 registered members and their families.
"We always like to see good science prevailing."

P-I reporter Lisa Stiffler can be reached at 206-448-8042 or lisastiffler@seattlepi.com

[skein]

Yes, and I still get burned every time I think about it. Those liars did a HUGE amount of damage to the credibility of biologists everywhere, and should have been fired and blacklisted. Instead, they were quickly shuffled out of sight with the hopes that the controversy (outright falsification) would fade away. Well, it hasn't in this outdoorsman's mind.

Chug, I think you're MUCH more likely to get a pic of sasquatch than you are a lynx (or a snowy plover at the locked up beaches).

Skein

[SandyRiverFisher]

Maybe theres lynx in Oregon, Maybe not. All I know is every other guy you talk to says hes seen one, but no one has a photo. Ive seen them in Canada, but never here in Oregon. Most people arent qualified to tell the difference, in fact, most hunters could probably count the cats theyve seen in there life on one hand. If you've only seen two or three bobcats in your life and never a lynx then how could you swear that something you saw in the brush was a species that isnt even supposed to be there and that you have no experience with. Heck, Ive seen guys who swore a Bobcat was a cougar, its no stretch to imagine that someone else might turn one into a lynx in their head.

In other words, ill believe it when I see it. Wheres the pictures?

[Abalone]

Moose occasionally stray into Oregon as due Wolves and various species of Birds. No doubt Oregon and Washington Occasionaly finds Lynx Cats
in Oregon but I don't believe they reside here in big numbers.

Not saying it doesn't happen but Not too likely. It's rare even to see a Bobcat.

[Snakebite]

:lurk: .........................................

[in 'em]

I grew up outside of Dallas in the caostal hills and had a lynx around. My uncle also saw one in the same area.

[Ni!]

I've been reading/participating in several hunting boards for a few years now, and the number of hunters who can't identify obvious species makes me very suspicious of these types of claims. There was a post on a predator hunting board awhile back of a bobcat picture from a trailcam. Very obvious, and the tail was completely visible. Half the guys responding thought it was a cougar. Quite a few people on this board are confused about the difference between a blacktail, whitetail and mule deer. I can understand why the bio's are skeptical, especially with similar species like lynx and bobcat and the hoaxes we've had in the past decade.

If there were this many lynx in Oregon, trappers would be catching them in their traps. That would be big news, but it doesn't happen.

[rimrock]

There are no present documented cases of lynx in Oregon. The USFWS fiasco a few years back is an embarrassing example of creating false information for other objectives. BTW Oregon historically is a bit too far south for lynx anyway. Even historically they were never here in numbers.

[baltz526]

if you where a trapper and caught an endangerd species, in your trap. how much dirt would you cover it with. you might look like one of the cartoons digging to china. if you do not believe, don't look for them. that will fix them. here is my take. spend thousands of hours in remote location with high quality binoculars looking for game and it is suprising what you will see in 2 or 3 decades of doing it. i'll guess most of the researchers do not spend the time in these remote locations that some hunters do. and they get paid to look. now that is a thought, pay someone to find something with no time limit and unlimited funds and i wonder how hard they will look if the day they find it the money stops.

[Chug]

With the Trail Cam's being so popular now with folks. Things we catch, now is going up. IFISH is just one site with Cams, lots of other folks buying trail cams. The amount of photo's of critters are going WAY up... BUT humans are building faster into the woods..

Just need Hair sample, Photo, dead one.. OH well, Will keep hoping for ANY cat on my trail Cam.

[Ni!]

if you where a trapper and caught an endangerd species, in your trap. how much dirt would you cover it with.

None. Why would I? I've done nothing wrong. If I caught a lynx in a trap I'd call a bio so they could come out and look at it. My guess is they'd want to put a collar on it so they could follow it around.

[Old Guys Rule]

Nov 2004 Succor Creek 2 Lynx

Chuckar hunting with my buddy we flushed 2 lynx down a gully. Not quite sure what they were and Rick had never seen a bobcat so we snuck in on them for a closer look. Huge size, easily bigger than my 85 pound lab, little stub tail, very distinct and large tufts on the ears. We watched them for over half an hour as the male had his nose up her you know what. Totally cool looking animals, it was the highlight of our trip and we talk about that sighting to this day.

I have seen bobcats many times in the Juntura Westfall area, these were no Bobcats. The district bio said no way lynx in the high desert, maybe the Wallowas. I disagree. I carry a camera everywhere now, wish I had one then but glad I had binoculars.

[in 'em]

Well, I didn't think I had to go into detail, but I know there are lynx's in Oregon...unless bobcats have greyish black fur, bobbed tails, and distinctly long ear hair stickin' up. I have no idea how one may have gotten to the coast range (trapped and brought over from somewhere else for all I know), but they're here. Here's a little of what I found in a 30 second google search...the dwindling population #'s along with a shy and reclusive character may be the main reason we don't see them much.

"The lynx weighs between 15 and 25 pounds, and has a bobbed tail and tufted ears. A close relation to the bobcat, the lynx has thicker, grayer fur, a larger facial ruff, and longer ear tufts. The biggest physical differences between the two animals are the longer legs and much larger feet of the lynx."

"...for to see a Canada lynx in the wild, a person must be doubly lucky. That’s because the lynx is both very shy, and very rare."

[Snakebite]

[BloodNtheboat]

But would you shoot A lynx in oregon if it had a green collar???

[SandyRiverFisher]

The thing everyone forgets is that there is variation within any population of mammals in size and coloration. A big bobcat is well within the size range of an average lynx, just as a small lynx would be well within the parameters of your normal bobcat. Look in any field guide and you will see that bobcats become more grayish during the colder months, do have bobbed tails and ear tufts as well. Unless you have seen both Lynx and Bobcats both in the wild on multiple occasions its not likely that your average guy could make an accurate identification. Its like someone saying theres grizzlies in Oregon because they saw a big bear that was brown instead of black.

Dont get me wrong, maybe they are here. Lets get the trail cams out there and prove it! Id love to see apicture of one.

[Chug]

With as many folks on IFISH, If only Half gets Just one trail cam. The amount of photo's.. WOW. Just think of the amount of critters caught on Film.

We might get lucky, for a lynx, Wolf, Aliens feeding BigFoot More stealth food. :-)

Camera's are cheaper, about every person has one going outdoors. Just a matter of time, for a "good" photo. If they share????

[baltz526]

[baltz526]

you will notice a few thing in the above pictures, that show how to tell the difference between a canada lynx and a bobcat. the bigest quick identifier is the black/dark tip on the tail. then the dark ear tufts and huge feet

[Amahnee]

Saw one up on Catherine creek.

[BCFISHON1]

heres a pic of our kitty

[Masty]

Years ago, in one valley off of 26W I was getting cats that were different looking. Those cats were very pale and more gray but I would not have called them a lynx.

But the fur buyer called em Lynx. He paid top dollar for em (lynx price) before I could stop him! I liked the money so I just snickered and took it.

We took a lot of cats back then, but that one valley was the only place with the pales.

I always heard stories about the eastern Oregon cats being Lynx, but I thought they were just long legged bobs.

Mast

[roadsend]

Originally Posted by Snug 2

Here's the story... Kind of long

Scientists' 'wild hair' really wasn't
Fur from tame lynx was inserted in samples to test laboratory's ability
Tuesday, December 18, 2001
By LISA STIFFLER
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
Snowmobilers and timber groups are wondering if government biologists have cried "lynx."
State and federal biologists recently admitted to planting fur samples in a survey to determine the distribution of Canadian lynx in national forests. Three samples taken from captive cats were added to samples reportedly found in the Wenatchee and Gifford Pinchot national forests.
But the biologists, who notified interested parties of what they did, said the samples were added to make sure the lab analyzing the fur was able to successfully detect lynx with its DNA analysis.
"It's a way of testing if a lab knows what it's doing," Doug Zimmer, spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Lacey, said yesterday. "It was not an attempt to put lynx where they're not."
Lynx were found in the Okanogan National Forest in the survey, but not the two forests to which the samples were added. The false samples were removed from the study and did not taint its outcome. Samples were collected again this year.
If lynx -- which have protection as a federally threatened species -- had been found in Wenatchee and Gifford Pinchot national forests some activities, including snowmobiling and tree cutting, could be curtailed.
The elusive cat, with its broad, furry paws, is well-adapted to hunting snowshoe hares through snowy drifts. The snowmobiles pack the drifts and give unfair advantage to other predators competing with lynx for prey. Thickets of lodgepole pine need to be maintained as habitat for the hares.
Even if the lynx were shown to reside elsewhere in Washington, changes in land use would come slowly and would not necessarily be severe.
"Nothing would change overnight," said Rex Holloway, spokesman with the U.S. Forest Service.
Chris West, vice president of the timber group the American Forest Resource Council, said he wasn't sure the government biologists were trying to falsify results, but was concerned about the study.
"There's already been some funny business going on with the lynx," he said.
A few years ago, an Oregon lynx study performed by a contractor hired by the Forest Service was called into question, West said. The contractor claimed to find lynx, but the results could not be validated and the contractor was not paid.
The seven biologists who were part of the government study included employees of the Forest Service, Fish and Wildlife Service and state Department of Fish and Wildlife. An investigation was conducted into the adding of the samples as soon as it was discovered, and the scientists involved were taken off the project, agency spokesmen said.
"This is a very, very isolated incident," Zimmer said.
The samples falsely added to the survey came from two lynx, one belonging to a federal scientist doing research and the other from a wild-animal park, he said. "If you were really going to skew something, you would use samples that you picked off the wild."
In experiments, "control" samples can be added to test techniques, but their addition was not included in the protocol for this particular survey.
The incident could undermine the integrity of the research.
"It jeopardizes the whole process of trying to protect the lynx in the first place," said Glenn Warren, president of the Washington State Snowmobile Association, a group of about 2,300 registered members and their families.
"We always like to see good science prevailing."

P-I reporter Lisa Stiffler can be reached at 206-448-8042 or lisastiffler@seattlepi.com

Surprise! :frown:
The PI's story does not appear to match the GAO's investigation of this incident (http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d02496t.pdf) and other available information.
This subterfuge could have resulted in the closure of thousands of acres of public forest land to hunting and other activities.
Even the tree huggers at NPR (http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/feat...0220.lynx.html)
did not attempt this kind of blatant slanting of this incident.

[PIR8 Hook]

HEy sam....my houndsman buddy swears that there are some in NE Oregon.

[gottafish]

I have trapped both bobcat and lynx. I saw one in Ukia and I know what it was. along with four of my buddys. it crossed the road right in front of us. No body else believes us but dang it Ive trapped them In Washington state back in the early 90s Of corse I released them every time. I know what the look like.

[gottafish]

Originally Posted by Ni!

None. Why would I? I've done nothing wrong. If I caught a lynx in a trap I'd call a bio so they could come out and look at it. My guess is they'd want to put a collar on it so they could follow it around.

I did just that and they did, I also got a couger in a trap and they put a collar on that one as well

[ORsouthpaw]

Put me down for the: I think I have seen one but don't have a photo group. I was hunting elk North Desolation/S. Ukiah area and as I was driving to a new location along side a creek when a small cat ran out in front of me. It was only about 50 yards in front of the truck and it stoped right in the middle of the road. Small probably 15-20lbs, Frost Gray in color with vertical strips that were very faint, huge paws for a little cat. Short tail. It may have been a juvi bobcat but every photo that I've seen leads me to believe it was a lynx. That's my story and I'm sticking to it

[toas243]

Well they are here and here to stay ,I have seen one by my house ,the Lynx is way bigger than a Bob cat got them in my yard

[garyk]

One outdoor book I have cites Oregon's upper Grande Ronde drainage as having lynx.