Hamilton 212 vs. American Turbine SD309

Thunderstruck · 03-13-2001, 11:19 PM

I will be ordering a 21' Alexis Pro Sport 350(carb) from Thunderjet in the next couple of weeks and would like any information on the pro's and con's of these pumps.

Also considering a raised fish deck. Does anyone like or dislike this option?

RKB · 03-13-2001, 11:44 PM

Thunderstruck
I have a hamilton 212 pump on my 22' boat and could'nt be happier if you plan on running white water or hauling large loads it's the way to go.I also have a raised fishing deck and like it but have friends that can't stand it depends on fishing style
and where you fish.email me and I will give you more on the love/hate thing.

03-14-2001, 12:07 AM

Welcome to Ifish TJ. Have we got a thread (topic + replies) for you! The one called "North River boats" that is over 300 posts and still going and going - like that bunny. You will learn a lot of things about the exaxct type of boats and pumps you are looking at. - RT

jet · 03-14-2001, 07:15 AM

Thunder

I second the idea by Rt, you really need to visit the NorthRiver post. But I will give you some of my opinion. I have a American Turbine on my 18' WeldCraft and LOVE it, it works awsome. On the larger boats, the 212 really works better (larger than 19').

Raised fish decks... forget it I have fished in the same boat you are looking at with raised decks. If all you want to do is drown bait it can be a good idea but if you want to catch and release fish the raised deck with the high rails really are a bummer. The rails limit where you can land and un-hook fish. Examlple of where you can access the fish with the raised deck and high rails, the back slippery pumpguard platform is one place and the other is the 2-3' space between the top and the side rail... not good.

In my opinion go with the wrap around 6" rail on the side and the back. Keep your body low in the boat, when it is rough and you need to land a fish you will really like the being lower in the boat.

Jet~~~

Salmonator · 03-14-2001, 08:51 AM

Thunderstruck, I second the NO opinion for the highdeck. But I would round up the piggy banks and pay for the TBI and forget about that carb. Slightly better fuel economy and the boat will fire and go in emergency situations unlike some of the carbs i've run cold... Joe

SLEDDER · 03-14-2001, 09:03 AM

I definately agree with raised deck opinions and Salmonators TBI opinion. I will never ever go back to carburators. It is amazing how fast you can get out of a sticky situation with TBI OR Multi Port fuel injection. Why have you decided on a Thunderjet, I am curious?

backlash · 03-14-2001, 09:25 PM

THUNDERSTRUCK, I was also recently in the market for a new boat. I had some similar questions about pump combinations. I did a lot of research before deciding on which way to go. Check out archive threads: "Kodiak pumps" and Carbeuration vs. Fuel injection. As I said, I did a lot of research and for my application the Kodiak was the way to go. I would agree that fuel injection is the wave of the future. I talked to Kodiak and was informed that G.M. is mandating that all of their marine applications be injected by 2002. Bye Bye Carbuerators. I spent a little more for the multi-port, but believe in the long run it will pay off. I also talked to a very reputable inboard mechanic that told me "If all boats were fuel injected, I'd be out of business." Hope this helps.

03-15-2001, 06:31 AM

Thunder,
The main difference between an ATSD309 and a 212 is the type of pump. The AT is a mixed flow or "pressure" pump while the 212 is a axial flow or "volume" pump. What this means is that the pressure style pump gains propulsion by means of a large amount of pressure through the nozzle of the jet. The AT has a large bowl from which the water is shot through a relatively small nozzle (in comparison to the bowl) and therefore the pressure of this action is what gives you thrust. This pressure can equate to excellent top end speed.
A 212 has a large "tailpipe" section (as opposed to a large bowl) which allows a large volume of water to flow through to a large nozzle. This design moves much more water which means increased torque throughout acceleration.
The 212 design also means that it will manuever easier at slower speeds due to the propulsion garnered from greater flow of water through the pump. With a typical 212, all you need to do at slow speeds is to put your shifter in forward and steer the wheel. With a typical AT, you need to give periodic bursts on the throttle to bring a vessel about at slower speeds. This can be tricky when surrounded by several other boats!
The 212 will perform better in reverse due to it's large twin duct style reverse bucket.
The AT has an older HTR style reverse bucket which deflects the jetstream directly underneath the boat back into the intake grate. This means that you will be sucking up aerated water while trying to gain propulsion, which will result in ventilation (or cavitation in extreme cases)and you will go nowhere fast. The 212 twin duct reverse bucket deflects the jetstream to port and starboard, which means it will not be shot directly into your intake grate and you will still have powerful thrust in reverse.
The AT comes standard with an aluminum impeller. The 212 is standard with stainless. A stainless impeller will resist damage far better than one made of aluminum.
Hopefully this post will answer some of your questions. If you have never owned a jet, the AT will be difficult to get used to, while the 212 will be an easier pump with which to become accustomed. Don't worry though, in no time you will get the hang of your jet and be able to manuever circles around any prop boat. I have a 23 Maxim and there is no other boat that would even come close.

212hjet · 03-15-2001, 07:20 AM

thunderstruck: Do spend time in the boat/motor/pump threads including the North River (monumnetal thread).
TBI or Port fuel infected (mine) will do the things mentioned above very well (spend the $$)...it will also let you sit on a steep ramp and idle smoothly until the engine warms, rather than have the floats load you up and keep having black smoke rolling out and having to hit the throttle over and over to clear it out and keep it running(important on some whitewater ramps in our neck of the woods anyway). Glad I can finally agree with another Idaho guy to some degree anyway. The 212 with the turbo impeller (elongated)(only way to go) gives you something akin to a two stage pump and rarely cavitates (and even if it does, it is done before you can back out of the throttle). It also "eats" debris much better than the AT....but is much more difficult to clean out if you do get debris in it! The impeller in a 212 is much larger..thus some of the "torque" jetstud was talking about. Reverse is much better, but unless you get flapper (straight out) exhausts, you can not throttle hard (sometimes needed in big current) while backing and turning as you will "suck" some of the exhaust and cavitate and have to back out of rpm's. BUT SO MUCH BETTER THAN AT THAT YOU REALLY CAN'T COMPARE THEM, REGARDLESS.
One piece of advice.....don't even think about ordering until you have talked to several inboard owners and picked their brains on all spec sheet decisiions and the specfic uses of their boats. And visit the factories of the boats you are considering and compare the structure, methods, materials to other factories...then evaluate all of that based upon YOUR needs,not mine or someone elses who may be very different. Just like the raised deck...only way to go for my whitewater use and I land fish off the full size swim platform (diamond plate..some friends snap on carpet to theirs) 6" from water level. Another compromise, perhaps...we all have to make some. It is much better and cheaper to get the exact boat that you and your family need with all the right options the first time. Good luck and enjoy it as we all do!

Lives_to_fish · 03-16-2001, 08:44 AM

For some reason, Thunderstruck is not able to post relpys. He thanks you for the info and is still looking.
He is not getting an error, but posts just not showing up.

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Thunderstruck · 03-19-2001, 12:09 PM

Thanks everyone for the great info. I ordered the 350 TBI and the Hamilton 212 along with the fish deck. The 3 month wait for the boat is going to drive me CRAZY!!!

new boat · 03-19-2001, 11:26 PM

Own a new 23' Thunderjet Maxim. With raised fishing platform. Love it!!! Had another sled with a Hamilton 3-stage and have the 454 EFI Marine Power with the Hamilton 212 in new boat. Great improvement over old three stage. Slow speed handling is much improved. Still don't know why people are bad-mouthing the Thunderjets. Mine has been great other than a porpoising issue that was easily fixed. Strongly recommend the EFI engine however.