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Old 04-19-2017, 03:32 PM   #1
DogZilla15
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Default English Comprehension, or Not

Went in to the body shop of my choice today because that's where we always go when we need something. Have a small ding in the Pathfinder that involves paint.

Gals asks, how can we help you?

I have a small ding in the rig that needs fixing. She says we're booked up till X. I say, hummmmm, that's a long way. She says, you need an estimate done and I can schedule that. I say, don't need an estimate, I need the thing fixed. She says, you still need an estimate. I say, no I don't. She says, yes, you need an estimate. I say, I don't care about an estimate, you are the ones who need the estimate, not me. She gets out some business cards for guys who do small dents, paintless dent remover services. I say, they don't do paint, rig will need paint. She says, in that case, you will need an estimate. Told here again, I do not need an estimate, I just want it fixed!!!!. Stop telling me I need an estimate!!! Well sir, we can't do the work unless an estimate is done and we know the materials and time involved. I said, I know that!!! You need the estimate, not me!!! Stop telling me I need it!!!! This is the short version.......

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Old 04-19-2017, 04:23 PM   #2
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

I completely understand. Frustrating for sure.
I just had a similar conversation with Kaiser. My frustrated texts to and from my wife are absolutely gold. Unfortunately, I could never post them here


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Old 04-19-2017, 04:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

I sense a "my way or highway moment". Do you really want it done there?
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Old 04-19-2017, 04:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Dogzilla15, it's like this ... your time is worthless ... to them. My body shop is similar. I'm done with it though. I just drop the car damaged off now and get a ride to a rental car place. The insurance companies can fight it out.
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
Went in to the body shop of my choice today because that's where we always go when we need something. Have a small ding in the Pathfinder that involves paint.

Gals asks, how can we help you?

I have a small ding in the rig that needs fixing. She says we're booked up till X. I say, hummmmm, that's a long way. She says, you need an estimate done and I can schedule that. I say, don't need an estimate, I need the thing fixed. She says, you still need an estimate. I say, no I don't. She says, yes, you need an estimate. I say, I don't care about an estimate, you are the ones who need the estimate, not me. She gets out some business cards for guys who do small dents, paintless dent remover services. I say, they don't do paint, rig will need paint. She says, in that case, you will need an estimate. Told here again, I do not need an estimate, I just want it fixed!!!!. Stop telling me I need an estimate!!! Well sir, we can't do the work unless an estimate is done and we know the materials and time involved. I said, I know that!!! You need the estimate, not me!!! Stop telling me I need it!!!! This is the short version.......
Just get with the program would ya? YOU NEED AN ESTIMATE! Tell ya' what, ole Joe Dirt will repair that ding with some Bondo and a rattle can for $100....and I haven't even seen it yet! I do require 10% deposit up front though...
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Old 04-19-2017, 05:43 PM   #6
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Rustoleum or Krylon? Nothing but the best. Want it to look good like yer Daytona.
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Old 04-19-2017, 06:09 PM   #7
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Rustoleum or Krylon? Nothing but the best. Want it to look good like yer Daytona.
Your choice! Yeah, the Daytona is a modern day Picasso!

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Old 04-19-2017, 07:48 PM   #8
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Man, you old geezers sure are crotchety!

I'm not sure I could have stayed friendly like you presumably did. I would have been generating steam in that situation. Folks who cannot think for themselves, just do what they are told. Argh. They've always existed. They seem to gravitate to gub'ment jobs...
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

I'm afraid that I would have told that twit she should find a different job.

I likely would have said " What part of... I just want it fixed don't you understand? .... I don't give a dang how much it will cost, just fix the danged thing.
Where do I sign to authorize the repair "
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

I have seen it before and can never understand it. I want to give your business my money and you don't want it.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

So you don't care about the cost, you just want it fixed? I think the estimate is to protect them from you saying they are charging too much.
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:32 PM   #12
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogZilla15 View Post
Went in to the body shop of my choice today because that's where we always go when we need something. Have a small ding in the Pathfinder that involves paint.

Gals asks, how can we help you?

I have a small ding in the rig that needs fixing. She says we're booked up till X. I say, hummmmm, that's a long way. She says, you need an estimate done and I can schedule that. I say, don't need an estimate, I need the thing fixed. She says, you still need an estimate. I say, no I don't. She says, yes, you need an estimate. I say, I don't care about an estimate, you are the ones who need the estimate, not me. She gets out some business cards for guys who do small dents, paintless dent remover services. I say, they don't do paint, rig will need paint. She says, in that case, you will need an estimate. Told here again, I do not need an estimate, I just want it fixed!!!!. Stop telling me I need an estimate!!! Well sir, we can't do the work unless an estimate is done and we know the materials and time involved. I said, I know that!!! You need the estimate, not me!!! Stop telling me I need it!!!! This is the short version.......
You spent more time with her than I would have--unless they were the only ones in the state that could fix small. Dings!!! Maybe better take Joe Dirt up on his spoof can offer. His car is cherry!!
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Old 04-19-2017, 08:35 PM   #13
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Exactly, the customer says "just fix it" then when it's time to pony up it's a war over the money. Sounds like all they wanted to do was...give an estimate, before, "just fixing it". Maybe you don't even care about the cost, but you better believe that policy is there because someone did.
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Old 04-19-2017, 09:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Like Bankbound said, theres a dead man behind every rule. Had i been in your loafers, i would have said the magic line, "may i speak with your manager?"

Positize, how dare you call him a geezer. He prefers the term, Silver Faux.
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Old 04-19-2017, 11:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

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Originally Posted by fyshndad View Post
I'm afraid that I would have told that twit she should find a different job.

I likely would have said " What part of... I just want it fixed don't you understand? .... I don't give a dang how much it will cost, just fix the danged thing.
Where do I sign to authorize the repair "
The authorization is a signature on the form that says what they will do to 'fix it'. I think the form is called an estimate, or something like it.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

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Originally Posted by Angler of Repose View Post
So you don't care about the cost, you just want it fixed? I think the estimate is to protect them from you saying they are charging too much.
I agree. It may not be a legal requirement but when money changes hands you better have a meeting of the minds written on something. Estimates protect the vendor and the customer. Think of it like any other location thats sells something. The product has a price tag so when you go to purchase it you know what it will cost.
Hey Joe Dirt. Plenty of business for you if you want to travel to Afghanistan or similar location. They have cars getting serious damage on a regular basis. Could be a real money maker for ya and no estimates needed.

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Harvey, you were having a Monty Python moment, stuck in an endless loop.

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Old 04-20-2017, 05:55 AM   #18
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Well sir, we can't do the work unless an estimate is done and we know the materials and time involved. I said, I know that!!!

well you knew it and still had a problem. they need to know what and how long right. if they are an efficient business they make sure the employees are working nor getting paid for nothing. problem i have with them is that is a 10 min. estimate. somebody can't do that immediately and put you in the work pipeline?
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:10 AM   #19
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Imagine what would have happened if he had a cavity that needed filling and the dentist insisted on a cleaning first...

"But I just want the cavity filled..."
"Yes, as soon as we schedule a cleaning."
"But I want the cavity filled."
"Then you need a cleaning."
"But all I want..."
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:12 AM   #20
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

It may just be so they can budget time and materials.
Sounds to me like you're going to need an estimate
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:16 AM   #21
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Sounds like the result of a litigious society.
Dog walks in wanting a service that they perform.
Sounds like he is familiar with the business and has been there before. He figures a handshake and he is out the door.
But the customer(s) in front of him have gotten mad, sued and scammed the business so they are now gun shy.
What's crazy is all the people that agree with the business that he should have a contract (estimate). They say you can't do business on a handshake. Sad


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Old 04-20-2017, 06:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by crabbait View Post
Imagine what would have happened if he had a cavity that needed filling and the dentist insisted on a cleaning first...



"But I just want the cavity filled..."

"Yes, as soon as we schedule a cleaning."

"But I want the cavity filled."

"Then you need a cleaning."

"But all I want..."


You been out of the states too long, Dentists now do that and appointments are routinely 30+ days out to get that filling.


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Old 04-20-2017, 06:24 AM   #23
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The thing is, there are no parts involved beyond a teaspoon of paint, just labor, I figured 2 or 3 hours with my uneducated brain. Pull away a little interior trim, pound it out from the inside, slap on a little filler, sand, send it to the paint shop. They might be able to it all from the outside with one of those electric gizmos that welds on the wires but I don't think so? They are the experts, not me. It's funny how much of an expert the gal at the desk was after spending zero time in the shop actually fixing cars. I have a valid appointment with someone doing estimates on May 3rd. By then the repair schedule will be well into July, maybe August?
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

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Imagine what would have happened if he had a cavity that needed filling and the dentist insisted on a cleaning first...

"But I just want the cavity filled..."
"Yes, as soon as we schedule a cleaning."
"But I want the cavity filled."
"Then you need a cleaning."
"But all I want..."
I have actually been there and done that.
$240 for the filling and $2K for the cleaning
I still have the cavity
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:40 AM   #25
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I have actually been there and done that.
$240 for the filling and $2K for the cleaning
I still have the cavity
$2k for a cleaning! you need a new dentist
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:47 AM   #26
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You need the estimate, not me!!! Stop telling me I need it!!!! This is the short version.......
How would you sign to authorize the work without a work order, or estimate as she was calling it? Gotta know what you're signing up for!
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:24 AM   #27
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So as I understand it the person who received you to the business was following the process laid out by the person/company that pays her salary per company policy. You, being of far superior intelligence, felt compelled to point out her stupidity for following that policy because you felt it was unnecessary. Am I up to speed so far?

As has been pointed out, those policies are put into place to protect both you the consumer and the company that provides a service. Just because you don't agree doesn't make the need for things to happen in a certain sequence any less valid.

I have people argue with me all the time about the forms they have to fill out with me so this hits pretty close to home. Big difference for me is if they aren't accurate it could cost them their life and they may not take that seriously but I do.

Rather than give someone a hard time how about helping them help you?
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:29 AM   #28
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All she had to say was, we need to do an estimate so we can know how much time to schedule for the work. Had she done this, I'd have said, yup, works for me.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:49 AM   #29
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All she had to say was, we need to do an estimate so we can know how much time to schedule for the work. Had she done this, I'd have said, yup, works for me.
I see what you did there, wordplay....
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:23 AM   #30
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You just can not fix stupid but it sure does reproduce quickly.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:32 AM   #31
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Always love it .

I usually have a low tolerance for that. Usually goes to:
There is no state or federal Law that requires an estimate.

Then it goes to get the owner

But because 90% of their work is probably insuranced based - They make sure there are no surprises?
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:39 AM   #32
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That little dent could cost more than a thousand. They did not want to shock you when you get the bill. Wife took her 2 month old car in for a pea sized dent in the rear fender. The shop,reputable long time shop with high quality work quoted her $2200. The paint was not even chipped. Reason they claimed was that they had to remove all the glass and trim to repaint the entire side of the car to properly blend the color.This on a two month old car. Your dent could be the same situation.get the estimate first
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:21 PM   #33
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$2k for a cleaning! you need a new dentist
Or new teeth!
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Old 04-20-2017, 12:32 PM   #34
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I'm expecting up to $1000. Paint will be minimal because of location even if they get carried away. Color is black. They could end up having to remove a rear side window? I told them up front insurance would not be involved.
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:25 PM   #35
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All she had to say was, we need to do an estimate so we can know how much time to schedule for the work. Had she done this, I'd have said, yup, works for me.
But she didn't. Man, you really showed her! Good job! I bet you feel awesome!
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Old 04-20-2017, 03:57 PM   #36
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If that would have been my shop, she would gotten more training. Then if she did it again she would be GONE. He/she it cost that company $$$$$$. I have zero tolerance for that, all she had to do was put in a notation to fix it with no estimate reqired or requested, I also would have went to the shop owner/manager.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:10 PM   #37
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I'm expecting up to $1000. Paint will be minimal because of location even if they get carried away. Color is black. They could end up having to remove a rear side window? I told them up front insurance would not be involved.
Your dissing the Lady at the desk for thinking shes an expert while never working in a shop. But it looks pretty likely you've never done any body work or painting either. And pretending to know more than her. When metal bends, it stretches. You have to do something about that. You see a small ding or dent. An experienced autobody guy may very well see a whole lot more. Black is not easy to match. There is straightening, and bondo and sanding and primer and blending, and clear coat involved. You would be surprised how much material will be used.

If you don't care about what it looks like other than fairly smooth and black take it to some backyard body shop and let them have at it. I'm betting any good shop will want to do it right, as its most likely guaranteed forever and they don't want it coming back. And as has been mentioned. The estimate is to protect both of you.

Seems to me your just playing games and not happy because she didn't know how to play along. I don't think your the type of person people like to do business with judging from your posts in this thread!
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:11 PM   #38
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Or new teeth!
The person who told me that I needed the cleaning first could not explain why, just that they wouldn't do anything to my mouth without a complete specific type of cleaning.

Yes I do need new teeth, I had an accident over 40 years ago that shattered several of my teeth and cracked most of the other ones. I'm missing half of my teeth and age has caused a few of them to become crooked so I have a lousy bite.
I asked her why in the world would I spend $2K for cleaning when I could get them all pulled and get dentures for about the same cost.
Her reply was they would have to clean them before they would pull them

Anybody know a good honest dentist?
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:18 PM   #39
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Could the cleaning be to help reduce the chance of infection? I'll have to ask my Daughter in law. Shes a Dental hygienist.
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:21 PM   #40
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Could the cleaning be to help reduce the chance of infection? I'll have to ask my Daughter in law. Shes a Dental hygienist.
Thanks
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:29 PM   #41
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Thanks
$2000 for cleaning does sound pretty outrageous though. Seems like an extra zero on there!
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:36 PM   #42
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$2000 for cleaning does sound pretty outrageous though. Seems like an extra zero on there!
First off my apologies to Dogzilla for hijacking his thread.

There's not an extra zero.
It was $500 per quadrent.
Two of which only have 3 teeth
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:22 PM   #43
DogZilla15
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Actually, I have done some body work and painting.

The way this could have been handled that would have saved everyone a bunch of time is to have had someone there with a camera to take maybe three photos and do the estimating from there. Pretty simple but there was no one present who could have done this. Seemed odd at the time to not have a qualified person to do estimates on the property at all times. The parking area was empty, I was the only one there. This is a huge shop with lots of traffic, do great work but nobody home.... Seemed odd......
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:07 PM   #44
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First off my apologies to Dogzilla for hijacking his thread.

There's not an extra zero.
It was $500 per quadrent.
Two of which only have 3 teeth
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:08 AM   #45
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For 34 years I was in a specialized area of automotive repair without ever being taken to small claims court, and in fact I had very few issues with dissatisfied customers, but good communication was an important part of that track record. I learned that the amount on the final bill was not as important as being sure the customer knew what that amount was going to be ahead of time. You were dealing with a shop that has a good reputation. Let them do their job. Ron
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:04 AM   #46
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This is classic grumpy old man. What's next are you going to get puffed up because the sidewalk is dirty? Is there anything that doesn't get your panties in a bunch?
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Old 04-21-2017, 05:42 AM   #47
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Lighter-hearted English comprehension story:

I went to municipal court for a traffic ticket a few years ago, and a couple of cases before me was a guy who had pulled out into oncoming traffic...in front of a police cruiser. He was cited for failure to yield right-of-way.

When he got his chance to talk to the judge, he was clearly jazzed up. He was about to go to war and make LEGAL HISTORY.

The judge said what the charges were, the man pled not guilty, and the officer involved said what had happened. The defendant was CLEARLY chomping at the bit to have his crack at the officer.

Ultimately, the crux of this guy's argument was that he COULD NOT have failed to yield RIGHT of way because he had turned LEFT!! It took the judge a couple of tries to figure out what the guy was arguing, and then he had to try to explain "right of way" in terms of which vehicle had the "right" to proceed in its original direction of travel, not "right" in terms of right/left. The defendant persisted...while he may have failed to yield left of way, he COULD NOT POSSIBLY have failed to yield right of way.

Unfortunately the defendant was so focused and so perfervid, and had no doubt invested so much time and energy into his "defense" that even though the judge explained it to him 3 times in 3 different ways, he didn't get it. He grew more and more insistent each time, and was frustrated that the judge didn't agree with him.

Ultimately, because he really didn't dispute the facts of the event as the officer presented them, and because he'd had every opportunity to have his case heard (exhaustively), the judge just found him guilty. Shock. Mild outrage. Ticket.
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Old 04-21-2017, 03:41 PM   #48
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DOG, you just gotta play (the game). Every thing seems to be a stinking game now days. When you go to the dmv for something now, you have to take a number- even if you are right behind the first customer of the day. If you want to go see a specialist doctor- you have to go see a regular doctor first so you can get a referral. When you go to lowes to buy carpet for your house and you have the measurements of your room in hand, guess what-- you have to pay for another person to come out and measure your room. Way to much nonsense in the world these days
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:12 PM   #49
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The thing is, there are no parts involved beyond a teaspoon of paint, just labor, I figured 2 or 3 hours with my uneducated brain. Pull away a little interior trim, pound it out from the inside, slap on a little filler, sand, send it to the paint shop. They might be able to it all from the outside with one of those electric gizmos that welds on the wires but I don't think so? They are the experts, not me. It's funny how much of an expert the gal at the desk was after spending zero time in the shop actually fixing cars. I have a valid appointment with someone doing estimates on May 3rd. By then the repair schedule will be well into July, maybe August?
Hope you're not bringing that *** beater to Clamstock. We do, after all, have to remain cognizant of our status.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:25 PM   #50
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

Game Theory

Cede that an estimate is necessary. Accept it when they hand it to you. Look at it. Hand it back. Say, "I don't need this. When can the work be done?" Go fishing. Come back. Pay the man. Drive your vehicle away. Smile, because your vehicle is fixed. Fry the fish you caught, they are probably bigger anyway.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:38 PM   #51
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

who gets anything fixed without an estimate? One shop could charge $300, the next could charge $1000.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:37 PM   #52
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

In this area we have 2 shops. One is exactly like you experienced. Bring a small repair in and get an "estimate" $2200.00 Bring it back the 3rd week of next month. Drive a few miles talk to shop owner. He says $450.00 bring it back next Tuesday. I know where I will go right from the start. No need to talk to the "Estimatinator"
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:26 AM   #53
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In this area we have 2 shops. One is exactly like you experienced. Bring a small repair in and get an "estimate" $2200.00 Bring it back the 3rd week of next month. Drive a few miles talk to shop owner. He says $450.00 bring it back next Tuesday. I know where I will go right from the start. No need to talk to the "Estimatinator"

Body shops figured out that most of the women and a fair number of men prefer the clean showroom type retail experience over old style shops. Mostly insurance work anyway, they don't care what it costs, only the deductible matters.

Is the second one Alpine? I stopped and talked to him one day, nice guy.
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Old 04-23-2017, 08:49 AM   #54
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Got to know and agree to what the costs will be. Sorry you don't get it.


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Old 04-23-2017, 07:58 PM   #55
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Body shops figured out that most of the women and a fair number of men prefer the clean showroom type retail experience over old style shops. Mostly insurance work anyway, they don't care what it costs, only the deductible matters.

Is the second one Alpine? I stopped and talked to him one day, nice guy.
Small place by truck stop.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:49 PM   #56
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

The OP's point wasn't about an estimate. It was about who needed it. OP obviously trusts the shop to do proper work for a fair price. Sounded like he'd worked with them before. Whatever the final cost was, he was prepared to pay it, based on his trust of the repair shop. This is an English lesson about "who" if was that needed the estimate.

The shop wanted to prepare and estimate, doesn't matter why. All that matters, for this dialogue, was that the shop "needed" the estimate, not the OP. The gal at the counter kept saying that the OP "needed" the estimate and could not comprehend simple English, that the OP didn't need it, rather that the shop did.

Simple lack in understanding basic pronouns.
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Old 04-24-2017, 04:49 AM   #57
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Were you just being a PITA to her so you had new material to start an IFISH thread with? She was trying to do her job, give her a break.
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:37 AM   #58
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Default Re: English Comprehension, or Not

It was purely semantics. If she had said, "first the paperwork" or "we need a work order" everything was golden. But he had already decided to get the work done so he didn't need an "estimate". Brain vaporlock...
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