whats going on these days with the L & C Refuge system

[Capin' Dan]

I'm going to post this from their site. This is part of a 15 year plan and just the part concerning the refuge. Joe David is the man in charge of this area and even though all the public meetings are over he will continue to take public comment. I spoke with him for a while today and he seems to be a great and easy guy to talk to that cares what folks have to say.
Here is a list of things they are considering about this area. Post up let him know what you think. Also if you can think of anything else you would like for them to consider. we could also get together as a group that love this area and see what improvements we can make. They kind of currently take a hands off approach to this area and let nature takes its course but he is open to just about any ideas for discussion at least.

We have identified the following preliminary issues, concerns, and
opportunities for the Lewis and Clark Refuge, and may address these
issues in the CCP. We may identify additional issues during the public
comment period. We will consider public comments during development of
the goals, management strategies, and alternatives for the draft CCP/EIS.
Dredged materials management: What actions should be taken to
improve and maximize wildlife benefits in dredge-spoil areas of the Refuge?
Colonial Nesting Bird Management: How should the Refuge manage and
increase colonial nesting bird populations while limiting their impacts
on anadromous fish?
Oregon Department of State Lands Management Agreement: Should the
Refuge consider developing an agreement with the State to modify
management of State lands within the Refuge boundary?
Commercial Guiding: Is commercial guiding for recreational
activities compatible with the purposes of the Refuge?
Camping on Refuge Lands: Is camping appropriate and compatible with
the Refuge's purposes and is there demand for this activity?
Wilderness Study: Should specific areas of the Refuge, if
appropriate and eligible, be designated as Wilderness?
We will evaluate a range of alternatives, and their potential
effects on the environment and local

Joe David can be rached at 960-795-3915

[Capin' Dan]

I personally would hate to see commercial guideing on this refuge.
I do like the fact we can camp on the islands. Many are great bank fishing locations for springers.

[Swamp Puppy]

Guiding No
Camping Yes

the rest of it...i am not qualified to comment on.

[MarshBum]

Couple of quick thoughts:

- No to guiding. There is already, at least with the people I've spoken with, a great animosity between locals and "guides" down there. The guiding is primarily for blue bills, and given that there is a 3 bird limit on them, guiding doesn't quite work out. I would hate to exacerbate the issue by letting guides loose down there. I can't guide Sauvie's, so why is this any different. I feel pretty strongly about this.

- No to Wilderness Areas - There are already 2 "off limits" areas down there. More don't seem necessary to me. I would not like the precedent that this would set, or the process that this would continue (gradually including more and more area under the Wilderness title making it un-huntable) I hope I understand the implications of "wilderness" here. I feel pretty strongly about this too.

- Yes to camping. The impact is so minor on the islands which are washed over and blown across, which helps to "erase" human impact.

Anyway... just a few thoughts.

Geoff

[Bait Bucket]

I will try to contact him tomorrow.

[Swamp Puppy]

oh yeah...missed the "wilderness" one. NO to wilderness.

[Capin' Dan]

Folks we can also post up here and then send this link to him.

What about doing volunteer work on the refuge to help possibly enhance what we have. Possibly planting food plots? Nesting areas they really aren't boxes but wire rings set up above high tide level but low enough to be used by the birds. also possible some racoon hunts on some of the islands that don't flood or other varmits like coyoye's. They may even allow that on the santuary's to help the deer population. I know on some of the islands I've seen racoons and coyotes and once I know no one will believe me but a black bear on Tenessle on a August scounting trip(sp)
these are some things to think about.

Dan

[Hunt'nFish]

Sweepy,...any comments?

[Sweepy]

I'm new to this group, but I've been lurking a little lately.

I was born and raised in Astoria area we have a family boathouse used for hunting, fishing and hanging out down there. I'm in my fifties and have seen a lot of changes in the river and bird patterns.

Hunt guiding is illegal in a federal refuge, we've always believed. Duck hunt guiding in the LC refuge would be a very bad idea.

The hunting down there is like stepping back in time, with big water and severe conditions at times. Other than opening weekend its not real crowded, but a lot more crowded than 10 years ago.

With the added pressure down there the birds stay out of the islands during daylight hours, they raft up on the open water until night. On a clear full moon night there will be no birds, they fed all night long. Any more pressure and they will move to safer unhuntable areas. i.e. inside city limits.

We used to fish sturgeon in LC estuary from April until Oct. with a few other locals. The guides watched where we fished and now the sturgeon quotas are achieved in about 2 months. With more and more guides the quotas may be hit in 1 month. As vast as the lower Columbia is, mother nature can only tolerate so much.I can expand on this another time.


Camping on some of the sand islands has been a real treat for our family. Some of my kids fondest memories are camping out down there. I've seen very little signs of human abuse to the habitat because of camping.


The Caspian Terns have moved into the dredged in islands. My brother chartered the biologist around to some areas the Terns hang out in. After sifting the sand for smolt implants the biologist estimated 8 million smolts per year by the terns alone. Comorants and other birds get there share of smolts also. Rumor has it raccoons and or pigs are needed to help the smolts.

I tried calling the above t-phone number and could'nt get through.??

I was hoping to meet some of you at the DA meeting.

Mike

[Teton]

I emphatically agree with Marshbum's comments. While I generally support commercial activities, the purposes of the wildlife refuge and a guide system are incompatible because this type of public area needs to be protected from excessive impacts to its resources.

I do not oppose camping on the islands, so long as improved campgrounds are not constructed.

On the wilderness issue, there are already places within the refuge which are closed. While wilderness advocates may disagree, I believe there are no lands in the Refuge which could qualify in the first place.

[CMallardDrake]

The changes I've seen in just the past two decades amongst the islands of the lower CR that are within the L&CNWR have mystified me to some degree. There has been plenty of talk amongst local groups and government agencies in this time span and I was under the impression that talking had ceased, decisions had been made and like Capin Dan mentioned, the refuge personnel were going with more or less "a hands off approach to this area and let nature takes its course," as the mode of mangement style. Well...talk is good...I guess.

Open up those islands once again to overnight stays as they were used in the past. Seems I heard the reason they haulted overnighters was in an effort to not disturb nesting waterfowl and the like. That never made sense to me as I figured a boatload of folk who set foot on an island at sunrise and stayed until sundown surely couldn't have bothered nesters much more if they stayed a few more hours into the dark of and over night. Maybe some sort of simple education system for potential overnighters could be displayed on how to know if you are setting up camp on top of waterfowl brood and please avoid doing so???????

Are there areas within the L&CNWR that are designated "wilderness" now or are they just "no hunting" areas? There is a big difference I believe or maybe there isn't? I feel the ratio of "off limits to hunting" areas is appropriate to the places where one can set up for a waterfowl hunting experience.

I've met Joel David on past occasions and he is a stand-up guy. More talk is good but I always get this feeling that in the federal refuge system...more talk after what many thought were concrete decisions on use...tend to sway to the side of less opportunities for hunters.

.....................:twocents :............................. ...........

[BrotherWolf]

Originally Posted by Swamp Puppy

the rest of it...i am not qualified to comment on.

Thats a First!.......