Cervid Ranching (Commission Decision)

[Old Soldier]

The following is information from an ODFW e-mail. Looks like some protection for wildlife will be provided with the requirement for double fencing. There are strong feeling on both side of the fence on this issue.



At the Sports Group Leaders meeting on December 13, we discussed the Commission’s review of two petitions related to cervid ranching scheduled for their January 12 meeting. You were told that the department will not be making a recommendation to accept or deny either petition. Upon further review and evaluation, it was determined that the department will recommend to accept the second petition. This petition proposes to cap the number of commercial elk ranches at 16, require double fencing and prohibit the transfer of Type 1, commercial elk licenses. The Commission Packet that details cervid petition related information will be available on our web site at http://www.dfw.state.or.us/agency/commission/minutes/ early next week."

[baltz526]

now the lawyers get to make millions of dollars, and we will get to continue raising our antibiotics resitance and plugging our arteries with colesterol, all for the greater good

[Rank Amateur]

It looks to me that this will offer additional protection to our wildlife and allow the existing ranches to continue, but phase out over time. Maybe not a win-win, but definately not a loose-loose situation either.

[Old Soldier]

I agree with Rank Ametuer.

I would think if the elk they raise are as valuable as they say they are then the ranchers would want double fencing. I do not want to see anyones financial situation hurt but wildlife needs to be protected so we do not end up like some other states have. I know no CWD has been found in Oregon yet. I support the farming and ranching community and come from that back ground. I think the Commission made a fair decision. The additional expense of the double fencing will be a burden but is needed.

[crabbait]

Originally Posted by baltz526

now the lawyers get to make millions of dollars, and we will get to continue raising our antibiotics resitance and plugging our arteries with colesterol, all for the greater good

I feel like someone just ran into the room, puked all over the floor and ran out.

What is the point of this spewing and just exactly what do you propose Mr. Sunshine?

[Salmo trutta]

Originally Posted by baltz526

now the lawyers get to make millions of dollars, and we will get to continue raising our antibiotics resitance and plugging our arteries with colesterol, all for the greater good

FYI.... one of the lawyers who worked on the petition done so free of charge. I think you owe her an apology.

[baltz526]

my point is that people get placed on the dungheep by polititions everyday, and to be happy for it is a bad human trait. what is more important in the big picture, a healthy food source and family incomes, or a precieved desease threat. the usda has said that the risk is minimal and everything that needs doing is being done. to require double fences is not a bad thing, but it is the minor thing this decision causes, to disallow the new ranches and restrict current ranches from free trade is a bad choice. being made to alieve your fears, not for the betterment of all oregonians. i hope the elk ranch familys get free legal help on these issues.

[Washington Hunter]

Elk farming is not allowed here in Washington and the lack of an elk farming industry has not seemed to harm our economy any. I sure can't think of even 1 reason I would want elk farms allowed in this state, but there are LOTS of reasons why they shouldn't be allowed. Now that I think about it, the fact that we don't have elk farms here is probably one of the only good reasons to live in this state.

[baltz526]

politics you got to love it. just because people have differences of opinion in political things will not mean they are enemys, or not good people. if you do not like my opinion, that is your right in america. and even when groups i support do things i disagree with, will never mean i'll cut my ties with them when the balance of things they do is agreeable to me.

[Maverick Maxcat]

Some of you guys amaze me. The only valid reason to pile more regulations or cost onto elk ranchers is because you have a personal, philisophical objection to captive elk.

Facts: There is no CWD in Oregon. No live cervids may be imported into Oregon. The only ways it may show up is through the migration of WILD animals, or the importation of infected, dead animals by hunters, or through contaminated feed containing animal byproducts. The domestic elk ranchers can't possibly bring CWD to Oregon.

Domestic elk are vaccinated and tested for all other diseases of concern, just like cattle. Since they are monitered much more closely than cattle, usually observed daily, and confined, they are a much lower risk than the cattle grazing rangelands and mingling with wild elk and deer.

Captive elk are REQUIRED to be 100% pure elk. Most are DNA tested. Our wild herds are decended from elk imported from other states, and are not any kind of distinct subspecies. IF some domestic elk were to breed with our wild herds there would be no harm! In fact, most of the hunters I know think we should release some of our domestic bulls to increase horn size in the wild herds.....

Conclusion: If some domestic elk were to escape the wild herds would not suffer any harm. Not to mention, the law states that the ranchers have 72 hours to recapture any escapee's, or the state will kill/capture them at the ranchers expense. This also proves that there is no need for double fences or more rules. Simply continue to enforce the laws we have now. If there is anything I've missed, please point it out. Otherwise, pull in your horns and live with the fact that not everyone shares your personal opinions and prejudices.

Here's an idea. If you really want domestic elk to go, buy us out. Our herd of 110 bulls is valued at $2,500,000.00. If you take them all at once, we'll give you the license for free, and you can retire it. One question. What will you do with a bunch of grain fed 450 B&C point bulls?

[Salmo trutta]

How do we know there is no CWD in Oregon??

Why don't you test your 110 bulls and let us know the results??

[Sea Jypzee]

Originally Posted by Salmo trutta

How do we know there is no CWD in Oregon??

Why don't you test your 110 bulls and let us know the results??

My guess is that he has tested all of his herd. If you're truely that paranoid of it though, why don't you test his 110 bulls and give us an unopinionated report.

[Maverick Maxcat]

Originally Posted by Sea Jypzee

My guess is that he has tested all of his herd. If you're truely that paranoid of it though, why don't you test his 110 bulls and give us an unopinionated report.

Thanks SJ.

The reason he wants them tested is because the only test at this time requires a brain sample, and the death of the animal. Probably thinks he's being clever.....

It is accepted worldwide, for all species of animal and all brain wasteing diseases, that a closed herd is disease free after 5 years of observation. We meet this standard.

They are working on a live animal test based on saliva or tonsils. Once this test is certified you are welcome to have them tested if you are still obsessed, oops I mean worried, about domestic elk.

Mark Rubbert

[TheTexan]

Mark,

You mention contamination by feed, how does this happen and how is it prevented from happening? Thank you for keeping the conversation factual.

[baltz526]

feed contamination happens when the processers grind up contaminated brain, spinal cord, bones from sick animals into feed, and it gets fed to animals in our domestic herds, in that way the desease spreads through nonliving animal tissue to living animals. the prions live through the processing into feed. they are hard to kill little buggers

[TheTexan]

I know it would increase the cost of feed, but I guess some CWD testing could be done to the dead animals that are being ground up into feed. I also assume that this potentially contaminated feed is not specifcally for game farms and it could be purchased by any animal owner. Although not likely, I guess it could be transmitted into our wild population of elk/deer by the general public.

Being from Texas, where all animals are fenced, I am just trying to understand the controversy. Has it been proven that CWD started on game ranches or is it just heresay?

[baltz526]

this type of feed is outlawed in most countrys, i believe. to control the spread of mad cow disease.

[Snakebite]

Originally Posted by TheTexan

I know it would increase the cost of feed, but I guess some CWD testing could be done to the dead animals that are being ground up into feed. I also assume that this potentially contaminated feed is not specifcally for game farms and it could be purchased by any animal owner. Although not likely, I guess it could be transmitted into our wild population of elk/deer by the general public.

Being from Texas, where all animals are fenced, I am just trying to understand the controversy. Has it been proven that CWD started on game ranches or is it just heresay?

Not sure about where it started, but this is one example that it does happen.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/madc...royed92601.cfm

[Old Soldier]

Here is some information from: www.aphis.usda.gov

Questions and Answers About Chronic Wasting Disease

Veterinary Services
September 2002
Q. What is chronic wasting disease?
A. Chronic wasting disease (CWD) is a fatal, neurological disease of farmed and wild deer and elk. The disease has been identified in wild and captive mule deer, white-tailed deer and North American elk, and in captive black-tailed deer. CWD belongs to the family of diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs). TSEs include a number of different diseases affecting animals or humans including bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle, scrapie in sheep and goats, and Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease (CJD) in humans. Although CWD shares certain features with other TSEs, it is a distinct disease affecting only deer and elk. CWD is a progressive, fatal, degenerative disease. Clinical signs in affected animals include loss of body condition, behavioral changes, excessive salivation, increased drinking and urination, depression, and eventual death. CWD is always fatal. There is no known treatment, vaccine, or live animal test for CWD.
Q. What causes this disease?
A. The agent that causes CWD and other TSEs has not been completely characterized. However, the theory supported by most scientists is that TSE diseases are caused by little understood proteins called prions. Prions are a form of protein normally found in the cells of the nervous system and other body tissues. Stanley Prusiner, a Nobel Prize winning neurologist, first described an abnormal form of prion resistant to enzymes that break down normal proteins. These abnormal, protease resistant prions are referred to as PrPres. PrPres have the ability to transform normal prions into this abnormal state. As the disease progresses, PrPres accumulate in the brain and lymphoid tissues (lymph nodes and tonsils). Accumulation of these abnormal PrPres produce tiny sponge?like holes in the brain that are visible microscopically. The word "spongiform" in TSEs describes the sponge?like condition of brain tissue found in infected animals. As the disease progresses, the affected animal loses its basic physical and mental abilities.
Q. What is the history of CWD?
A. The following is a brief chronology of CWD:

• CWD was first described clinically as a wasting syndrome in captive deer belonging to Colorado research facilities in 1967. A few years later it was described in a Wyoming research facility.
• CWD was first determined to be a TSE in 1978 by Dr. Elizabeth Williams of the University of Wyoming.
• The first cases of CWD in wild deer and elk were diagnosed in 1981 in Colorado and 1985 in Wyoming.
• Beginning in the 1980s, the distribution of CWD in wild deer and elk in Colorado and Wyoming was determined through surveillance by wildlife agencies in those States. Through their efforts, an endemic area for the disease in wildlife in their States was described. This area includes much of northeastern Colorado and southeastern Wyoming.
• In 2001, discovery of a positive wild mule deer in neighboring Kimball County, NE, extended the endemic area into southwestern Nebraska.
• From 1996 to June 2002, CWD was diagnosed in farmed elk herds in Colorado, Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, Okalahoma, South Dakota, and the Canadian Provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan.
• From 2000 to June 2002, CWD has also been found in wild deer in northwestern Nebraska, southern New Mexico, southwestern South Dakota, south?central Wisconsin, northwestern Colorado, and the Canadian Province of Saskatchewan.

[Maverick Maxcat]

Old Soldier,
Thanks for posting the CWD info. As far as I know, every case of CWD in farmed deer or elk has been traced back to the original outbreak in Colorado. Oregon has eliminated this pathway by forbidding the import of any live cervids.

The outbreak in Wisconsin, in the wild deer herds, is thought to be caused by residents feeding wintering deer contaminated feed. It has been illegal to use any ruminent animal parts in feed for ruminents for some time, but it was still used in other feeds, such as chicken feed, which may have been given to ruminents anyway. I believe I read something recently, that they were going to outlaw ruminent protein in other feeds as well. It is easy to block this pathway. Don't feed animals to ruminents!

There was another CWD outbreak in an Eastern state recently. A taxidermist there was dumping scraps and waste in the open, and deer were attracted to the salt. Some of the material was from areas with CWD, such as Colorado and Wyoming. The local deer then contracted CWD.

This is the transmission route that scares me the most. Many hunters harvest animals from CWD infected areas and bring them home to Oregon. Some of these animals ARE diseased! It is illegal to bring any brain or spinal tissue into the state, but several hunters have been caught just this year trying to do so. Who knows how many others made it home. The most important thing we can do to prevent CWD in Oregon is to keep diseased tissue out. If you hunt out of state, please, follow the rules. Even better, have the meat cut and taxidermy done where the animal was killed, just bring the finished products home.

[PullShootExplode]

Hey Mav I always appreciate your views and If I had 2.5 mil laying around I would buy them just so I could actually see and hear an elk.lol. In all seriousness though I wish they would follow the laws on the books and let you earn your living the way you want. After all this is America the land of the free isn't it?

[baltz526]

if you use this link it will take you to all recent information on cwd http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/nahps/cwd/

[baltz526]

CWD in Farmed Herds

Herd Certification Program
The APHIS Herd Certification Program (HCP) has completed final regulatory review and was published in the Federal Register on July 21, 2006. This program was developed in coordination with States and the farmed cervid industry and incorporates existing State programs which meet or exceed national program standards. Once the program is implemented, captive cervid owners can participate in their approved State program or they can participate directly in the national program if no approved state program exists. Program requirements include fencing, individual animal ID's, regular inventories, and testing of all animals over 12 months that die for any reason. With each year of successful surveillance, participating herds will advance in status until reaching five years with no evidence of CWD, at which time herds are certified as being low risk for CWD. Interstate movement of animals will be dependent on participation in the program, and additions to herds can impact herd status.
To view the final version of the Chronic Wasting Disease Herd Certification Program and Interstate Movement of Farmed or Captive Deer, Elk, and Moose, please visit the Federal Register online or click here for a plain text version of the rule.
Several states already have CWD monitoring or certification programs for captive herds. To find out more about your state's activities related to CWD, visit the State Information page for links to state agriculture agencies.
CWD Surveillance
APHIS has supported State surveillance for CWD in captive cervids by providing adequate laboratory support and paying for testing since 1997. This support has increased annually.
Surveillance of Captive Cervids

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CWD Home
CWD History | Distribution of CWD | State Information
Farmed Cervids | Wild Cervids | Research | Photos

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[baltz526]

just a few facts to cut through the emotional response the uneducated are trying to get your votes with. please read all the information linked above, before you give your support to outlawing a highly regulated agricultural way of life.

[skein]

Somehow I'm seeing apples and oranges here - or so it seems to me.

On the one hand there is Elk Ranching, such as what we see at Sisters. That is elk raised in a fairly tight confine and fed throughout the year. For you guys that haven't been there, just go on past the Les Schwab at Sisters and they are in the field right across from the high school. (I did poorly enough in high school WITHOUT elk to watch all day. I can't imagine what would have happened in math class if I could have gazed out on a big bull....)

On the other hand, there are ranches that have good populations of elk. I know of some of those; huge land-holdings that measure in miles not acres, with wild herds and wall-hanging bulls. From my perspective those are not "within enclosures" even though there are fences around the property.

Are we talking about one over the other, or is the ruling encompassing both?

Skein

[Rank Amateur]

I believe they are only talking the high fence operations, where the cervids are actually owned. Wild elk on a cattle fenced ranch is not included.

[Salmo trutta]

I'll tell you what if you guys are ever so trusting in the so called "certifation" and testing program why don't you call Mr. Test at ODFW and ask him to see the paper trail where all the "domestic" elk from all these elk ranches originated from. Oh yeah and ask him about the so called disease tests. Oh yeah and while you are at it ask him about how many escapes there have been in the last twenty years. Along with the two free roaming herds of exotic deer that are in Oregon. They shoot them within how many hours??? In a previous post Mr. Max says his elk are DNA tested as being pure. ODFW should have those tests on record it's just a matter of asking under the FOIA.

Right.... just like Rammels in Idaho. You guys need to wake up.

Oh yeah and Baltz of course USDA is gonna support anything Ag no matter what. How do you think they make their living?? They fully support the farmed fishing industry also to the detriment of fisheries habitat and genetic diversity of fisheries.

Ever hear of the Precautionary Principle?

Elk and deer are not livestock and if you guys can't figure that out you don't deserve to be hunting and chasing them.

That's all I am gonna post on this matter.

[baltz526]

everyone should be fully informed on these and all topics. not led around on a leed, as trained donkeys.

[Trick]

Hee-Haw

[Norm]

A few reasons I'm against elk and deer ranches in Oregon

1. Importing disease

Remember the TB scare in 2005

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/news/2002/releases/014.asp

PORTLAND — To determine if tuberculosis (TB) exists in wild populations, state biologists are planning to sample wildlife in a 25-50 square mile area where one farmed elk tested positive for the disease. The draft proposal estimates 250 deer and 100 elk will be selectively killed this winter to gain scientifically accurate results.
The disease has posed a threat to human health and the livestock industry for many decades and a coordinated federal and state effort is in place to eradicate it. Disease control experience indicates that if TB is found in wildlife populations, it is both difficult and expensive to eliminate.

2. Escapement on non geneticly pure elk into wild herds

just look at recent problem in Idaho http://www.pocatelloshops.com/blogs/...cs.php?id=1015



3. Entrapment of wild elk onto high fence ranches oregon

I have no proof that this goes on, but I think the threat is real.






It seems like the general public are the ones that pay if the private ranches make a mistake. I hate to add to the bureaucracy of private ranchers, but since the people of the state are the ones who will pay the price if something goes wrong I think we have right to protect public wildlife. Like they say, one bad apple spoils the whole box.


If all private elk farms were double fenced, animals tested for disease and genetic purity, and the ranches had a bond to cover expenses if anything goes wrong, I might be less inclined to be against elk/deer ranching. Right now I think we are playing Russian roulett, sooner or later the people of the state will be the losers. So far Oregons herds are TB and CWD free, I'd like it stay that way.

My

Norm

[Swamp Puppy]

Originally Posted by Norm

So far Oregons herds are TB and CWD free, I'd like it stay that way.

then your efforts would be better spent working to prevent either:

A: wild animals carrying diseases from migrating into Oregon

-or-

B: hunters bringing in contaminated animals from out of state hunts.

get control of these two things and then start worrying about the small potatos.

-Ed

[Sea Jypzee]

An interesting article on the subject.

http://www.capitalpress.info/main.as...SectionID=&S=1

[Gun Rod Bow]

Originally Posted by Norm

A few reasons I'm against elk and deer ranches in Oregon


It seems like the general public are the ones that pay if the private ranches make a mistake. I hate to add to the bureaucracy of private ranchers, but since the people of the state are the ones who will pay the price if something goes wrong I think we have right to protect public wildlife.

My

Norm

Well written response.

Yes I do have an emotional ping that hates to see elk treated as livestock. But that does not overide my logical views on private propoerty rights.

There has been undeniable cases here in Oregon and elsewhere where diseased private herds were killed by the state and the owner reimbersed by us.

A private property owner has rights. But I can be ticketed and forced to comply if noxious weeds from my land are not controlled. I see farmed elk as having the same potential for harm to "public elk".

Double fencing seems to me to be a compromise that will allow an existing herd to continue while helping to protect wild elk.

I do not think the general public has a "right" to buy an elk steak. The elk meat we (hunters) eat is "available" to anyone who wants to buy a tag, and do the work. The "public" can even book a guided trip on private land and be fairly guranteed of the opportunity to eat elk meat.

Each little white package of those steaks holds a way higher value to me because you can't just write a check for it. Reverence for wild things and the work required is part of the satisfaction of putting those steaks on the table IMO.