Thread closed

[Jennie@ifish]

Hi there! Back from the valley.... ahhhhh

Anyway, I locked a thread about fishing and hunting news. I did it because I have some very good friends on the board that are involved with F and H news. I know the post wasn't that bad, but the one before was. I just wanted it to go away, because I care very much about the people that take the time to write in F and H news.
I'm sorry if it offended anyone to close the topic, but I miss some of the people who might have been offended by the posts and I want them to return. They do have some very good input to add to ifish, and I sure haven't seen them post for quite some time.
I can understand why.
So, I didn't delete the thread, I just closed it.
I also wonder, why was the pic shown that way?
Anyway, sorry if I bruised any feelings. RT didn't do it, it was that stupid girl Jennie.... again!

Jen

[jet]

Remember all, Jen does not get a whole lot of money for all her hard work. F&H news might be a possible sponsor of this site in the future. We all might need to think of her and her future $. She need a brake also.

I am sure she really hates to rain on our parade. but sometimes it for the greater good, she really lets us get off on tangents and off topic all the time.

Late Valentine...


Jet~~~

[This message has been edited by jet (edited 02-16-2001).]

[onstep]

Jennie,

Agreed. Name calling is useless and frankly wasted time.
thanks,

[OR Coast Range]

I can understand your views on this. This forum is a public service that you are providing, and you can run it anyway you see fit.

But this does affect how I view the information on this board. Does the post that I am reading really reflect what the poster is trying to say, or is the message somehow modified by your opinion?

Censorship is a tough issue, but as long as I know up front how the board is run I can live with it.

Keep up the good fight, and thanks for the time and energy put into Ifish

[OneLastCast]

I read this post several times and said "do not answer! do not answer!" Oh well, so much for will power.
I am not offended. As Oregon Fish Chaser says its your ball and your court so you can do what you want. And I agree that name calling and profanity are not necessary. But, following the thread of logic does this mean that we can no longer state the brand names of boats, reels, lures, jigs, etc. for fear of offending some present or future sponser? Or can we only mention them if we have something good to say. (Seems my mother used to tell me something like that)
Does this mean no more political discussions or debates on netting? (If I send you $50 as a sponser will you delete RT's threads everytime he gets mad at me?)
Without some passionate discourse, dissension and a little diatribe it is difficult to provide all the different facets of a topic. With only a limited discussion based on all that's "fuzzy and warm" an intelligent decision cannot be reached. It is good to see that we are still fighting our way to mediocrity.

Maybe it's time to quit planning fishing trips and instead plan a time where we can all get together for a group hug.

Sorry this probably didn't merit a hug but when I hear that someone thinks that something is done for the "greater good" of myself it sets me off.

OneLastCast

[OneLastCast]

Okay...just One Last Cast

The best thing your friends at F&H news could have done after reading those posts was to submit a new post themselves asking everyone what they would like to see in the magazine. What better forum to get ideas. I have always been impressed by the comments when help or views are asked for. It most likely would have had an impact for the better on their circulation.

OneLastCast

[Jennie@ifish]

Geesh!
I never ever have censored a name, or modified a post except for profanity.
Name calling isn't necessary.
Period!
Thats all! No big deal!
If it says this message has been edited by Jennie, then you know that I have edited out profanity. Period! All I can give you is my word. To think that Fishing and Hunting News would be a someday sponsor is rediculous.
Ohhhhhh I give up.. I cant win with everyone!
All I can say is.... Enjoy the board if you want to, and if you don't like it???

Jen

[OneLastCast]

Jennie don’t get upset, or maybe you should

You need to decide if you just want a “Ma and Pa” type web site that sells pot cleaners or snake oil to your customers or do you want to be known as a Northwest wide website where people can get the straight scoop on conditions, products or ideas. I am sorry if your F&H friends were upset about the chatter on their magazine, however they could have bettered themselves by responding. Since we have never met (although I have seen you at Freddies) we can’t be classified as friends but if I took some of the RT’s comments seriously then I would still be wondering about my sexual orientation, or Timberman would still be wondering about the validity of his profession. Where was our defense? Since we are not friends socially or politically than we can just be classified as another mentally challenged, politically incorrect person? No defense required? As I stated I have no problem with reduction of profanity or name calling. But where do you stop protecting your "friends"? You may need to decide if you have a Pandora’s box with this site. You and RT are doing a wonderful job but too much control will only bias the site and maybe further exasperate your problems.

As Oregon Fish Chaser said "but as long as I know up front how the board is run I can live with it".


With All Respect
OneLastCast

[Jennie@ifish]

So what is your point?
The board is run honestly. I didn't delete a thing. I didn't modify a thing.
I closed a topic.
I also have better things to do than to argue. Going to go have dinner with my family now!
Jen

[chromer]

IFishers:

I appreciate Jennie's attempt to limit another "trashing" of F&H Newws by stopping the thread. I work for the publication and have to admit that I didn't care for the name calling and what appeared to me to be aggression toward a couple of guys who defended the magazine and it's editor on the previous thread. I wasn't personally offended by the comments and enjoyed the insightful criticism.

As a journalist I hold the right of freedom of speech very close to my heart and can empathize with those who feel they are being censored by Jennie's decision to stop the thread. I would like to assure you all that her decision was not because of whining or complaining from F&H News staff, because to my knowledge there wasn't any. I do however, respect her right to take such action.

Several of us who work for the publication were made aware of this and the previous thread by IFishers who e-mailed us. Their action was thoughtful and we appreciated the opportunity to digest unsolicted, and apparently heartfelt, criticism of our work. I chose not to post on either of the threads for fear of appearing to be defending the publication only because I have a vested interest.

I have talked with Pat Hoglund about the previous thread. He was not upset at Jennie, the IFish crew, or those that chose to place less than favorable labels on him. He is a seasoned journalist and editor, and understands that there are people out there who might not agree with his point of view and may be of the opinion he is a moron. He was however, dissappointed that when such labels were given that there wasn't some basis for the opinion provided.

Criticism of my work as a journalist is always welcome. It is my job and strong desire to provide my readership with the best possible information to meet their needs. I also recognize that my reader's interests and levels of knowledge are vairied and being everything to everybody is impossible. On occasion I am successful, and at other times fail miserably.

So, thank you Jennie for following your heart. And thank you to the rest who have shared their personal insights into the good, bad and ugly about F&H News.

As always, I welcome your comments, positive or negative. My e-mail address is dschamp@teleport.com

Dave Schamp
North Coast Columnist
F&H News
aka: chromer

[onstep]

Jennie,

I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. I understand some of the negative aspects of posts all to well. I work for a company that is repeatedly pounded by this board and in some rare intstances actually praised. If memebers of Fishing and Hunting News are offended by peoples opinion thats their right. Maybe they should listen to the public a little more and take the critism as constructive. Thats the way I handle it.

[Jennie@ifish]

You are absolutely right, and I am sure that Fishing and Hunting News takes this, reads it and uses it to better themselves..... I, and I suppose that they appreciate critisism. I would also suppose however, that bashing is not necessary.
Fishing and Hunting News needs to know what the people want. That is why they read the thread.
Name calling, however, is totally out of line. I just didn't want this thread to 'go there'. I think that they have gotten the point. Don't you?
Jen

[Gone Fishin]

OK, I've stayed out of it this long...
How about a "positive" Fishing and Hunting News Post?

I support Fishing and Hunting News, I feel they stand up and get behind key issues. While I don't always agree with what Mr. Hoglund has to say, he does get involved.
Most recently an editorial on Native Broodstock Programs and (I thought) a great response to Mr. William Lackner in an "letter to the editor" in the most recent issue.

I can't say enough good about "chromer" Dave Schamp, Dave is a genuine quality individual who also gets involved. Dave takes days off his "real" job to help out during the North Coast Rendevous and other events, volunteers his time to the State Marine Board, and does the best job he possibly can to provide readers with ACCURATE information.

While Fishing and Hunting News cannot be up-to-date with information (due to being published every other week) they do a great job of informing readers on places to go, rigging, contacts, maps and the strive to bring the information accurately.

All the thousands of subscribers (of which I am one) would probably agree with me. And I'll continue to support them.

-Marty Peterson

[Predator Dawg]

Jenn-

I feel you did the right thing. I'd hate to see ifish turn into the bash party that nw....com is.

One thing about F & H. They have 'news' on the end because that is what they are. They report news and, since it comes out every 2 weeks, some of it is going to be long over by the time the reader gets it. So should they leave the older news out? I think not. I have found aspects of the rag very usable at times and don't have a problem with it. The titles are kinda directed towrads the NASCAR crowd (no offense ment) and I don't understand the need for 3 year old pictures in todays digital world, but I like to read about fishing and hunting and can pick through it for its good points.

Steve

[Osprey]

cackel,cackel

After re-reading the post.. ..Holy Horse Dung Batman,
you have got to be kidding me..right

I will attempt to defend F&H news,

my bird loves it in the bottom of his cage:rolleyes no I don't buy it)


once again double standards
and these dude aren't even sponsers on this site.

Chromer talks about freedom of speech.... What a concept......my.02....Os

Oh my goodness someone got their feelings hurt.....PLLEEAASE.



[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 02-17-2001).]

I've fished for close to 30 years now and I believe F&H News has been around the whole time. I've always taken it with a grain of salt! It is what it is! The pictures and maps are great, the news is either old or exagerrated but I defintely don't read it to find out where to fish. So If you don't like it leave it alone. It's as simple as that.
I'm a little uneasy with the thread getting closed though. I know it's totally Jen's perogative to close it but I'm not sure I understand why. The vulgar language and name calling is unnecessary and can be easily edited away or deleted altogether but the rest of the thread was just opinions so why close it? It's not like I'm going to pout about it or threaten to leave the ifish board because of it I just disagree with the decision and that's it. Anyway let's get back to enjoying the great job Jennie and steve are doing and just agree to disagree.

[Jennie@ifish]

laa da tee dah tah!
I did it because that is what my heart told me to do, so I did it!
More people should follow their hearts!
It wasn't a biz decision... cuz Ifish aint a biz....
ta da tee dah tah!
jennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnieeeeeeeeeeeeee
I want everyone in the world to be friends...
Tall order, huh?
At least I'm workin on it!

I think we should all get together and join hands and sing "I'd like to buy the world a ....Sol beer" A cerveza mas fin

Bigstew
"Often imitated but never....."

[Jennie@ifish]

ME TOO!!!! Let's do!
You know, it is interesting. Ifish, when it was smaller.... was my home away from home. I started ifish because I loved to fish and the people here made me feel good, but lately, I feel some people are very critical of everything I do.
Sometimes I wonder why I am still doing it...
Never, did I imagine that I would give all of this work to be slammed..... But I guess I still like it enough, cuz I am still doing it.
Luckily, I know in my heart that I am doing my best to be kind and supportive to everyone, and that is what is important to me.
If that ever stops.... Then ifish stops or changes dramatically.
Sometimes I don't come to this board for days.... It isn't what I envisioned. I just don't want to get involved in all of the politics, the conflicts, etc.
If you think it is difficult to have a close relationship with someone, try having one with 750 people!
AGH! You know what I mean??
Jen

[SteelieSteve]

Jen don't let it get you down. You've got a great site and I think we all like the fishing news, tips, and camaraderie. You and Steve have made it home for all of us Salmon and Steelhead chasers. It does get heated on some issues but that's life and I think we all realize the pro's and cons of fishing today. You have my support in your executive right to administer Your site. Just my .02

SteelieSteve

[Jennie@ifish]

Thanks....
I'm not letting it get me down. I'm growing a thicker skin.... which I really didn't want, but I'm doin it.
I like to be sensitive, and I think when you get a thicker skin you lose some of that. My sesitivity (some say oversensitivity) is what helps me write music, see things the way I do, and feel deeply for people. I like that part of me!
Anyway..... I'm OK with it all, I'm not getting down about it!
I still love dearly the friends that I have made on this board!
Jen

[dawhunt]

WoWWWWW!!!,you can sure tell when the fishing sucks.Hang in there everyone the springers will be here sooonnn.I just hope its not a bust like winter steelhead was.I'm sick and tired of hearing about clinton and am sick of Saddam and want to catch a fish !!!. 91 more working days and then RETIREMENT !!!!! No more GRAVEYARD shifts or SWING shifts boy do I pity my poor wife. HEH HEH HEH
Bob Dawson

[RW]

The last thread about this topic was a trash fest in my opinion, and I didn't appreciate it at all. When I posted that name calling and such doesn't help, but constructive criticism does, there was no posts after that! I thought that some of the posters went over the top and I let RT and Jennie know, I thought it reflected poorly on all ifish members. It really was below the belt to attach those that defended the magazine.

I don't always agree with the magazine and Pat Hoglund. How I choose to let them know that is in a very professional way, not bashing them in public. Dave has given his e-mail address out, use it to help better Fishing & Hunting News. RW

I think you have a credible point there Bob. When the fishing is crappy or the full moon is out the criticism seems to flow more thick than warranted on here. Sometimes anyway. For my $0.02 worth, a call to lighten up everyone . ...

BTW, you should know that Jen made this post, informing and explaining she made the F&H News thread lock, to take potential heat off of me (because I appeared I had locked it because of a post I made in it that the thread was an unnecessary repeat). I had forwarded an e-mail to her from a member that wanted to know why it had been locked. Above the forward I mentioned to Jen that she could e-mail her reason to the member. I also said I wasn't going to post on the BB that I hadn't locked it, because I didn't think many people would be upset by it. On her own accord Jen made this post to alert members that she locked it, so they wouldn't think I had. She didn't need to do so but did. It's a show of honor and courage in my book! Thank you Jen. As for the censure thing, we have been pretty darn good about letting things go on our BB. Yet at times some things are just very excessively negative (bashing/namecalling) or even outright beyond expressed guidelines for this forum (such as profanity or racism). If those are halted on rare occassion, within reason, it's not such a big deal to get over-reactive about; and is part of why this BB is more civil than most. ...

Lighten up all, and enjoy a good thing. Some extended good fishing will help brighten things around here . - RT

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 02-18-2001).]

[DanS]

If I remember correctly, the posters that were defending F&H News called the Ifish membership a bunch of cackling hens, that would rather bash F&HN than fish. Not an effective way to build support for the paper.
Instead of offering up the positive sides of F&H News, they chose to attack the members of iFish, so what did we all expect would happen?

Sorry, but when a dude with 3 posts calls us a bunch of cackling hens, he should expect return fire. I believe some of the criticisms of F&H News may have been unwarranted, but so was the nature of the posts "defending" F&H News. It could have been done in a less adversarial manner. JMHO

Fish on......

[Steelheader69]

I'll chirp in on this one. Ok, Jen. You stated you are getting a bit "thick skinned", but you want to stay sensitive. You can be both. First, you have a personal life, there's where you keep the love, affection, and emotions. Here, you should keep a wall up, to a point. You can add some personal aspects (since this is your sight for your "enjoyments" as you've said) but keep what people have said with VERY thick skin. I work for a pretty big company (I'm sure there's not many of you that hasn't heard of UPS) and I get a 50/50 love hate thing all day every day. I get the "You guys are great and I'll stick with you to the end", next stop I'll get "You guys suck and I should use FedEx". I take it with a grain of salt and just say "Have a nice day". You can't please everyone, so why try? I learned that 12 years ago when I started working at UPS. You try to please everyone and all it does is burn you out and makes your life/job start to suck (does this sound familiar Jen????) I'll admit I will get mad and stand up for what I feel is right, and you've seen it in my replies. You've stated you run this BB honestly, and you probably do. It's just that alot of people are seeing a conflict of interest between people you like and people you like a little less. You stated that you have friends on the board at F & H news, so you closed the thread. That they may have left this BB because of it. If they're professionals then they're used to this type of feedback and if they left because of it they don't have the maturity to deal with life at all.

Now we come to Chromer's response. I have no idea on the Oregon edition of F & H so I won't comment on it. But the Washington edition is less then a desirable mag. Most pictures they put on the pages are so random it isn't funny (they're either a few years old or have nothing to do with article in question). I had in past (say 15 years ago) sent letters to editor requesting a change or an update of some sort, but received no letter of any kind. I may pickup the occasional map issue of somewhere I'd like to try fishing, but I think maybe 1 issue in last 7 years. I've found too many "rerun" articles, instead of reresearching a river and updating it (I love the "reprinted article" header and last line "check current regs since they may have changed"). Rivers change on nearly a yearly basis, sometimes so dramatically that they are 100% different. Then some of the "editors" of some columns I've read from waiting room racks show either a well overblown catch rate or facts that come from who knows where.

I'll add onto this, bigstew said how they've been around 30 years or so from his recollection. (I'm not saying you're supporting them bigstew, just adding to my point) Does anyone know what one of the biggest, if not biggest circulated magazine is???? The National Enquirer. Hmmmmm, just because something is a hot seller doesn't mean it's all true. Just because it's bought off the racks at high speed doesn't make it's facts more credible. Even if the "facts" are supposedly 2 weeks off, since it's only printed every 2 weeks there should be a little journalistic knowledge that leads to investigation. With this investigation of guides, ODFW or WDFW, and local fisherman/women the column writers should be able to give you a report of what MIGHT happen and then add what had happened in the last 2 weeks. All you see is resort bait shops telling you what has happened and a prospect from them what will be happening. I'd rather have a "weather" type report then the "shoulda been here yesterday" reports.

Ok, now Gone Fishin, it's a bit insane to say "they do some good so give them some positive feedback". Like big corporations that donate thousands of dollars to the wildlife funds but do millions of dollars enviromental damage at same time. It's an invalid arguement. I remember my Grandma used to get one of the old ragmags (I think it was the Weekly World News, but she's been dead over 11 years so can't remember). I remember reading a very good article about child abuse and ways to see if it's happening, but flip the page and they talked about (and shall I say the very much over rerun character over the years) the batboy. Takes any credibility and throw it out the door.

OneLastCast, I'll have to say you've stated all my points. I agree in the "if you're either a friend or sponsor you can have anything done here". It seems that if you're either, then rules are bent. I remember a "no advertising rule" here. If you want to get technical then any post about "rods, reels, manufacturers" would be advertising. Unless you're talking about the company itself doing the advertising. Well, that's been pushed a bit over the line itself. I've seen a post as early as yesterday that would be considered a blatant add (at least my prof. in college had said it's the best advertisement in the world when you're business name is given a positive feedback in the news, in this case it's a post). It just seems that there are two sets of rules. I realize this is your site Jen and you can do as you see fit, but to set rules, then enforce as you please seems a bit odd.

Now Jet, most people who have these sites (since there are millions, if not billions now) it's quite a common thing. These sites are a personal thing, and not a business. When I first saw this sight I thought it was a personal site. But it seems more and more it's turning more business, or shall I say friends that are in the business. No offense to the 2-3 moderators who have "reports" BB of their own on here. Are they advertisers? If not, then they are blatantly having their businesses advertised on here. At bottom of this BB it doesn't specifically say that these businesses listed below are sponsors, so I'm just making a point.

I'll close this reply now. I don't mean to step on peoples toes, I know what it's like being in a fierce competition market. I know what it's like to be in an unfair/uneven playing field. I come here to get away and chit-chat with friends on here. It gets a bit akward when you don't have an actual place to lounge. It feels like you Mom is in the room telling you to "Get your feet off the couch" or "Sit up straight". I've said it once, and I'll say it again, a site is only as successful as the people that come to it. Sites come and go. Some hang on with merely the bare bones of shell of a site. Some have closed down all together (ten years on the web and I've seen alot come and go). I just ask that if you close one post for name bashing, close them all. I've seen way too many that have name calling that aren't touched. You have a wonderful site, with alot of knowledgeable people. It just seems that we're the children being spanked (ok Os, NO, I won't spank you so quit asking me already) and not being treated as adults (though most of us are merely kids at heart as was seen on the floatilla). We're all old enough to be on here (if we're under 18 then mom and dad should be watching what they're doing) and we can edit what we do and don't want to see. If we see a thread that's offensive, how hard is it to hit the "back" button??? It seems that in todays society the complainers/moralists get the attention (the proverbial squeeky wheel gets the greese scenerio). I don't need morals pushed on me, nor do I need disciplinig. I just want to be able to click to a thread and read what is posted. Then I can reply or just click to next post. How hard is that? It seems to me that some are way to easily offended on this board and they all need to grow up. I've yet to read one thing that offends me to the point I'd turn this thing off (even the post that people were ranking and thrashing at me over the cataraft thread deletion). Why do others feel they have to protect the rest of us. Unless the person is quite literally threatening to kill someone, racially slandering someone, or talking about doing illegal acts (say discusting things like child ****, etc) then why delete/edit the thread? We're adults, and can edit ourselves. This isn't a freedom of speech BS comment, it's a real life comment. It's as if this is a forum for pushing personal beliefs instead of fishing.

Oh well, I'm off my bandwagon....

Did I ever tell you the joke about the rabbi, catholic priest, and prostitute stranded on a deserted island???? Maybe I better not.....

------------------
You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[Spooled]

I am 100% for freedom of speech, but it does not apply in this case. I also believe in honoring your word, and if you click on the area to register for this BB, the rules plainly defend Jennie's actions. I have been guilty as much as anyone of posting some things that may have angered some. If they were removed, I might not have liked it, but I agreed to the rules when I joined this board. It seems to me that by clicking on I AGREE on rules to sign up, I have somewhat given up my right to free speech on this board (not anywhere else). I read it and clicked I AGREE, so how can I complain when I break a rule and get censored or in this case a locked thread. Read what you agree to.

[otter]

The horse is dead.

[boater]

i hope they dont recall the dec. 7-- jan. 4th washington edition and take my picture off page 24.

[Spooled]

Steelheader69. My post was not directed to you or anyone else in particular, just a general statement of how I saw things. Sorry if you felt it was directed at you, it was'nt. I agree with you that the rules don't always apply equally, but that is why the moderators must use their judgement. I don't always agree with everything they say or do, but I respect that they are trying to do a job. It's is like driving in my opinion. If you got a ticket everytime you did'nt use your signal or went 2mph over the limit, nothing would get done. Sure, these are rules, but we don't bother to enforce them. Now 20 mph over and it is enforced. Just the officer's discretion which to enforce. Obviously Jennie felt this to be an enforcible offense. Just her discretion.

By the way, count me as one who likes UPS.

[WiggleWart]

Steelheader69: I have been reading this Bulletin Board for a long time now, and gained many valuable tips on fishing, and products that people have tried and liked, but have never felt compelled to make a post until now.
You come in here and criticize EVERYTHING that anyone has to say. It appears to me that YOU are the one doing the spanking here.. telling others that they should grow up, behave, and live life to YOUR expectations. Isn't everyone allowed to enjoy life, and be who they are?
From what I have seen.. Jennie, the Moderator of this Bulletin Board, is doing a great job here, and is as fair as she can be. I'm sure it can't be an easy task trying to please everybody, all of the time, yet still she takes the flak when she does what she thinks is best.
You said quote: "I just want to be able to click to a thread and read what is posted. Then I can reply or just click to next post. How hard is that?" Why don't you do just that instead of letting your butt grip your underwear, and get all hot and angry?? I know if I don't like something I read, then "I" have that exact option! Its a choice we all have, isn't it?? Nobody is trying to disipline or push their morals onto you.. You have the choice to click the X in the corner, or to simply change to a different thread.
You sound like a VERY angry,and troubled individual. If you have any kind of problems in your personal life, don't take them out on the good people here, seek help! Have you tried fishing?? Meditation? As for working for UPS, hmmmm.. maybe you should think about a job change..and soon! Maybe THAT is what is making you so damned angry and unhappy. It seems that way from what I have read what you say about your job!
I'm sure I speak for many here when I say if you don't like the way this bulletin board is being run pay the money, and start one of your own.. then YOU can censor it just the way you like
As a suggestion, you could always go to www.haveabitch.com and vent your thoughts there

You either control your attitude, or it controls you..

Wart


[This message has been edited by WiggleWart (edited 02-18-2001).]

[SureSet]

Please quit and close THIS thread! It's all been said.

SureSet

[This message has been edited by SureSet (edited 02-18-2001).]

[mudsucker]

I'LL SECOND THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Spooled, that was a good anology about the inevitabilities of inconsistent enforcement of rules anywhere in society. They are more goals than concrete walls. ... OK. 'Nuf said! No lock needed. Right? ..... Next subject: fishing >----------------->

BTW, the next person that posts here is a rotten egg.

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 02-18-2001).]

[RW]

RT, I guess I am the rotten egg. If you don't have the guts to close the thread, don't use threats!!!!! When there is nothing left to say, that will let the thread slip by. RW

[Steelheader69]

Spooled, I have read the agreement. As I've said it's not a freedom of speech thing. It's the fact that what is edited/closed for one person isn't done for the next. Basically, you haven't agreed to the "rules" at hand, you've agreed to the rules set as we go. Rules are meant for everyone, even site administrator. If rules aren't kept in place for everyone, then you'll have alot of ruffled feathers.

There are alot of things that flagrantly offend me. To some of you they are "the only fact" in life and feel it's a perfectly ok thing to post. For myself and my beliefs it's a crock and offensive to my knowledge. Yet I do not email Jen about them. I just click to another post. What is offensive to one isn't offensive to another. I won't bowbeat this anymore. I won't be able to get my point across, since most that defend certain actions won't listen to reason. It's usually a "That's the way it is so I believe it" scenerio.

Oh well.....

------------------
You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[Salmonator]

Hey 69, lighten up and go fishing. Or, go open your own website and run it the way YOU want if you feel that strongly about free speech! It's no where near as big a deal as everyone's making it out to be... Joe

[Steelheader69]

Ok Joe, as I said in my last post that this WASN'T a free speech thing at all. Please READ what I wrote. Second of all, I'm lightened up quite a bit, I think it's quite funny. About starting my own site, I'd love to, but having to pay for lawyers and my ex's misdoings has a majority of my funds tied up, so I have to wait. My whole point was basically if you're going to enforce rules for one post, enforce for all. It's highly hypocritical the way things have been going lately.

Then to the fishing aspect, I go quite often, yet I can't go when I want. I have two very young kids that I am a single parent of, and it's hard to take them when the weather is as cold as it has been. I don't like constantly making them be with a sitter to fish or make my girlfriend stay at home with my kids while I go fishing. I realize you meant that in a funny way, but some of us don't have the opportunities to go like we'd like. That's why some come here to talk about fishing and have fun that you'd have if you were on the river.

As I said, I'm sure I'll get slammed, so bring it on. Not many responses I can't come back on.

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

Huh? I thought I was gettin downright nasty tough by 'threatening' to call people a rotten egg if they didn't stop this over-reactive thread. And you can see how effective if was RW. You were the only one with the 'guts' to risk being a rotten egg to sound off some more.

[bait boy]

I want to be a rotten egg too.... hey I made this thing go to 2 pages...
Rick




[This message has been edited by rickh75 (edited 02-19-2001).]

[Salmonator]

no matter how you want to come back on it, it's still "much ado about nothing". If Jennie put all posts in a barrel and reached in and deleted the first 10 she pulled out who cares. I can take my computer and go home lol. I understand about the getting out and fishing with young kids thing. That was my stongest argument while shopping for a sled with a hard-top. It's not good if you're out fishing while the kids are spending less than quality time at the sitters often... Joe

[Timber Man]

DELETE DELETE DELETE!!!!!!Don't close it just delete it.$#^%#^@$ ^^%@#^%^#&* &^^@*(*@(# see them cus words?DELETE...TM

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"Just say HELL no to sovereign nation!!!!!"
SRBC Boyz

Hmmm. The rotten egg trick didn't work. Fine. Now I am really mad . No more Mr. Nice Guy. I am going to get mean! OK, you guys are hanging by a 'thread' here. Hee hee ... Hey, I can't do this tonight. I'm just not mad. I am in a silly good mood (just check out the other later posts to see). .....

Hey, that's it!!!!! Everyone try lightening up and having a silly good time on here - within reason of course. Cut the overly serious stuff and get after a good time on here, while sharing valuable info at the same time. Why didn't we think of this before? Yes! - Now I'm going to go eat 2 more big bowls of friggin ice cream and have a heart attack. But I'll be back . - RTease

[Steelheader69]

Hey wigglewart, reading along time and only being registered since Feb of this year??? So what you're telling me is you're good to take info, but not give feedback until now? A good BB is give and take, if you've been coming here along time you've only been taking and no giving. Nice to know you decide to give only when you want to throw stones at someone. I've posted numerous times (actually more then it shows, since it only gives you one credit per thread, multiple posts on one thread count as one) Ok, I'm not sure about all the posts you've think you've read by me, but you're pretty confused. Please actually read and understand what I write instead of just doing a quick read and missing my point. I'm to the point I don't really care anymore. This is such a one dimensional forum (in sense you can't see someone's emotions) that most people who can't understand a statements meaning will really overexpound on it. Plus, if you've read my replies to any of my posts you'd know why I haven't started my own site. I wouldn't be competing with Jen's anyhow. Her's is an oregon/sw wa page. I fish the OlyPen/puget sound in WA so they'd be totally different. My opinions are basically that what is fair for one is fair for the other. Now as for my job. I love my job. I get paid more in wages and benefits then 65% of the population. I get "disgruntled" at Xmas time, and all UPS drivers do. It's hard to be away from your family 12+ hours a day. Besides that, I love my job, and love life. Right now, I'm fighting a disibility. But it's not UPS's fault, it's a homeowners fault.

So, wigglewart, before you judge me, walk a mile in my shoes.

Jen, please just delete, don't close, this whole thread. Let's let by gones be bygones......I don't care anymore. I'll just post and go my own way. You do what you want......

Jerry

By the way Wiggle Wart, before you go and start judging someones "attitude", look at your own. Your post showed as much anger as anyones, in fact you preface it by adding an angry face. Anyone who truly knows me on here (there's only a few, and Os is one) knows I'm a very friendly guy and will go out of my way for a friend. But I do believe in fairness, that's only reason I was posting on this thread. It sounds more like you have a problem, and I can tell you are quick to make statements, but keep your aninimity by keeping your email private. So don't throw stones if you're not prepared to have them thrown back. I made all my statements on here with a very conscious mind, and spoke my mind. Isn't that what this board is for? I didn't once until this post say something bad about Jen or anyone else, I just asked for fairness for everyone. I know all about running a board, did it years ago before it was common like it is now. I know the problems they curtail. All I asked was questions, I didn't once tell anyone to leave board or become a deviant (though you may have tried to read it as so).
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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[This message has been edited by Steelheader69 (edited 02-19-2001).]

[Trick]

We all have our opinions about everyone and their actions. My opinion is that Jennie did what she thought was best. We talk about walking a mile in someones shoes. It can't be done, so walk the best walk you can in your own shoes and try not to judge someone elses actions so critically. Like 69, I chose to have children and it has cut my time on the water 95%. I love this sight, because like I've said before, it allows me to live through all of you when I can't dedicate the time I used too. For that I'm extremly grateful and I don't want to see this sight go away. This is my drug right now and I need a daily fix of Ifish.

99.8% of this sight is awesome, don't let a couple of issues you don't agree with become the death of Ifish. Take it for what it's worth and if enough people turn off on the BB then it will die a slow death on it's own. If you love this BB like I do, then learn to roll with the punches.


my .02 again. That ought to bring me up to a $1.22 if my calculations are correct???

Hey 69...

Hard to believe that you or anyone can get so reved up over a little fishin!!!!

Have a nice day!!

BWB

[This message has been edited by Bildgewaterbill (edited 02-20-2001).]

[DF]

ya know what?
I go fishing to get away from people who like to get mad and say bad things about people.. its just dumb...must go fisssshhhhhinnnnggggg
RT and Jennie Do a great job here I love this site.
THANKS GUYS!


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A bad day fishing is better than a good day at work

[lippee]

Jesus Christ enough is enough, You guy's need to get on with what's important on this BB fishing and information new's. Let's all get along. Lippee

[Steelheader69]

Hey Jen, just delete this post. It seems these people either can't read or won't actually take in what is written and decipher it.

Ok, Bildgewater. I'm FAR from angy on these posts. It does bother me to see ignorance on the part of people. I'm far from a stupid person, or an angry person. I do own guns, but I prefer to shoot game animals then people with them. I don't have a drug or alcohol problem, so I don't need betty ford. I don't even find that funny (in fact I'd say that's offensive so should be deleted ). But seriously, it's posts like these last two that bother me. I can guarantee my posts were either 1. read half hazardly or 2. were read by uneducated people. (I'd like to think that most people on here have some intelligence). I'm not better then anyone else. My problem is I was taught that you stand up for what you believe is right. I did, and I had already said I'd only post on here and I still have more people slamming on me. I need no counseling, no drug rehabs or such. In fact, I laugh my ass off. I figure you guys have to be kidding, since no one can be that incompetent. I love to fish, I go as much as I can. I love life, I love my girlfriend, and most of all I love my kids. I come on here to eat up that extra time I have that I have every now and then. I came to the point I've tied up enough jigs, flies, and made enough spoons to last me the next 10 years. So I use my extra free time and no sleep time to come on here. Not once did I EVER say this was a bad site, I just wanted it to be fair all the way around. I wouldn't come back here if I didn't enjoy the people here. But seems my biggest critics are so knew I doubt they have read anything but the few posts in last couple weeks. So be it. I will defend myself here. It's not anger, it's called pride. If I was angry, Jen would be editing my posts left and right because of the foul language.

SOOOOOOO JENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN. Please delete this post.................PRETTY PLEASE. With whipped cream on top and chocolate syrup and a cherry. Or how about some salmon cream cheese on a bagel????????

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[dawhunt]

Come on guys enough is enough,there's got to be some fish somewhere lets go look !!!!

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Bob Dawson

In a lighthearted way I tried to get people to stop posting to this over-reactive and diminishing return thread. If you would like to see it go away then stop posting to it! Then it will be off the first page in practically no time; out of site and out of mind. Simple.

RT

[smilesforu]

Ok let me get this right..If I don't post it will stop. But what if I post and Jen deletes it..Is that the same as not posting at all . This is a real dilema for me on what to do. Would somebody please sensor me..hehe

BTW How many jellybeans can you put in your mouth at one time? RT hows that for silly

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Marty M
Steelheader.net

Marty! That's not very nice getting on here and asking to be sensored. You should be censored for naughty stuff like that! And judging by your above post I'd say you could pretty much put the whole jar of beans in your mouth at once.

[This message has been edited by RT (edited 02-20-2001).]

[Crusty]

I love my grand children.

Me: Who spilled the milk?

Nate: Taylor did it.

Taylor: Did not!

Nate: Did too!

Taylor: Did not, it was Nate.

Nate: Liar, liar.

I'd like to thank you all for reminding me of them.

Crusty

Crusty....You are priceless!!!

BWB