Autopilot help!

Bendman · 12-19-2006, 09:04 AM

Does anyone out there know anything about the Raymarine S1000 SmartPilot Hydraulic Autopilot System? I'm hoping to install an autopilot system this winter so I would like some input. Anything someone could add about autopilots would be appreciated.

Pete

flapbreaker · 12-19-2006, 10:33 AM

I've heard pretty good things about it for the price. You might take a look over on www.thehulltruth.com I know there has been quite a bit of discussion on them since their release.

tracker · 12-19-2006, 11:34 AM

Mine worked really well for two years, then.................... I am going to try and get the TR1 Galdiator now. Much more costly but for what it does and how it is made I dont think you can go wrong. You are going to hear a bunch about how bad the "ray" is.

flapbreaker · 12-19-2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracker

Mine worked really well for two years, then.................... I am going to try and get the TR1 Galdiator now. Much more costly but for what it does and how it is made I dont think you can go wrong. You are going to hear a bunch about how bad the "ray" is.

Tracker, did you have the s1000 or a different model?

tracker · 12-19-2006, 12:43 PM

Yes that is exactly what I have. It has a rudder sensor that I am sure is a big part of the problem. Near impossible to attach it like it should be without it hitting on something when the motor is raised. Also the computer is losing itself from time to time causing the boat to do what we call "crazy Ivans". Kind of scarry when the boat deciededs to take off to port when you are not expecting it. I think the computer needs to be replaced and I have an extended warranty that would cover it but I do not think it is worth my trouble!

Onokai · 12-19-2006, 01:08 PM

qoute- Raymarine S1000 SmartPilot
Smartpilot -thats a good one-do a search on autopilots in salty dogs its all been said before and I will add that if you can still get your $ back do so. After fighting for over 1 year with a raymarine i finally got an auto that works and it was not a name with Ray in it. stick with brands like Furuno or Simard or tr gold. I know of more folks than I can count on one hand who gave up on that junk called smartpilot as the units all gave up the ghost or never worked from day one like mine.Sorry for your woes brother. Mark

fishtales · 12-19-2006, 02:06 PM

The Gladiator is hands down the most reliable and effective auto-pilot your money can buy. In addition to performance and reliability there is local support right at south beach. For my two cents buy at home and be happy. In my humble opinion. PM if you want more reasons.

KeyWest · 12-19-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onokai

qoute- Raymarine S1000 SmartPilot
Smartpilot -thats a good one-do a search on autopilots in salty dogs its all been said before and I will add that if you can still get your $ back do so. After fighting for over 1 year with a raymarine i finally got an auto that works and it was not a name with Ray in it. stick with brands like Furuno or Simard or tr gold. I know of more folks than I can count on one hand who gave up on that junk called smartpilot as the units all gave up the goast or never worked from day one like mine.Sorry for your woes brother. Mark

Nalu · 12-19-2006, 02:27 PM

If you're serious about an auto pilot, don't start by looking at the price. Look at what you want it to do.

Once you start using an AP, you'll find that it becomes one of the most essential pieces of equipment on your boat. It will be used on EVERY trip, and probably a good 75% or more of the time that you're on the water.

A good AP does more than just keep your boat straight. It eliminates distance travelled by integrating into the GPS and using "logic" to compensate for wind and current.

A good auto pilot is far superior to any skipper at the helm when it comes to reacting to beam or quartering seas....all while you hold on to the throttles with one hand and a cup of coffee in the other. It lessens the fatigue on your body on rough days as you are not constantly fighting the wheel. A GOOD AP will not go caddy whompas when the boat is tossing around.

A good autopilot lets you integrate manuevers such as expanding circles, clover leafs, williamson turns, squares, as well as whatever routes you can program in your GPS. Easily plotting a point when on fish, then directing your AP to work the area is great.

A good AP takes a lot of trepidation out of travelling in the fog, or after dark. Instead of task loading, and constantly checking if you're going your desired heading, you can spend more time looking in front of the boat, and at your instruments for verification.

I trust my AP fully. I have crossed the bar in Garibaldi in some of the thickest fog imaginable, and run all the way to the harbor without ever touching the helm. (I did have the AP remote in my hand) It is a rarity that I ever touch the helm when coming into Depoe until just before I hit the hole. The AP in the fog makes it easy to not get distracted and head towards North Reef or Flat Rock to the South.

Personal preference, but a good AP disengages as soon as you grab the helm, not only when you hit a button. This feature has saved me a number of times before I had an encounter with crab pots or floatsam such as logs.

A good AP is more than just a luxury. If you're travelling long distances on a regular basis, it's an investment that shouldn't just be looked at with restpect to who is the cheapest.

I cannot knock other units as I have not used them, but I can certainly praise the TR-1 Gladiator. The unit, as well as the service from the company, has been top notch.

cptdarel · 12-19-2006, 02:53 PM

In our commercial harbor we use and trust "ComNav" easy to use and couples with plotter a trustworthy unit, the sensor is built in the head unit so no sensor at the rear of cable, my 2cts. I belive installed was about $1400.00 and worth it, commercial Salmon fishing by yourself, you can't steer and pull fish at the same time.

http://www.comnavmarine.com/

bajadan2000 · 12-19-2006, 02:59 PM

Nalu is giving you very good advice. Wish I had his advice before I bought. I started with price and got what I paid for, A Raymarine autopilot.

I am not going to bash the Ray. unit, because it took me a year to figure out how to properly install, operate, and understand the auto pilots limitations.

First, the lower priced units like Raymarine will not work well with a GPS for slow trolling. The unit will not adjust fast enough to hold course. This becomes an even bigger problem as the weather conditions get on the sporty side..

So if you want to do intricate manuevers, get a better unit.

I now use a compass for guidance. Even there it took trial and error to find a good position on the boat so the compass functioned properly. I have a fluxgate type compass mounted on the bulkhead behind the steering wheel, near the center of the boat.

I understand that a better compass is a gyro type, however, they can cost as much as the auto pilot unit.

You get what you pay for..

I am now happy with my Raymarine autopilot. However, I am only using it to go straight from point A to point B.

flapbreaker · 12-19-2006, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tracker

Yes that is exactly what I have. It has a rudder sensor that I am sure is a big part of the problem. Near impossible to attach it like it should be without it hitting on something when the motor is raised. Also the computer is losing itself from time to time causing the boat to do what we call "crazy Ivans". Kind of scarry when the boat deciededs to take off to port when you are not expecting it. I think the computer needs to be replaced and I have an extended warranty that would cover it but I do not think it is worth my trouble!

Ok, just to clarify. The original post called the s1000 a smartpilot which is not correct. Raymarine does not label this as a smart pilot. Also the S1000 does not require a rudder feedback device and is a different product from their smartpilot systems. I only point this out because he was asking about their s1000 system but is getting feedback on everything they make.

All my electronics are Raymarine and I have had zero problems. I don't have their autopilot system. I do have a TR-1 for my kicker and it does work as advertised. Most people can't justify 4k for their gladiator. I have followed the progress on their s1000 system and it has received mostly positive reviews.

Mark Mc · 12-19-2006, 04:50 PM

I have Benmar "Course Setter 21" in the garage. It's only 20 years old. It only does one thing....steer straight ahead. But it does it well. Designed for a helm with a shaft at the back (i.e. not hydraulic). Many a salmon has died with it's help.

For sale only to those on this thread

KeyWest · 12-19-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onokai

qoute- Raymarine S1000 SmartPilot
Smartpilot -thats a good one-do a search on autopilots in salty dogs its all been said before and I will add that if you can still get your $ back do so. After fighting for over 1 year with a raymarine i finally got an auto that works and it was not a name with Ray in it. stick with brands like Furuno or Simard or tr gold. I know of more folks than I can count on one hand who gave up on that junk called smartpilot as the units all gave up the ghost or never worked from day one like mine.Sorry for your woes brother. Mark

Mark,
I finally found a Raymarine product that is reliable, inexpensive, easy to use, and well worth the price (Englund Marine is giving them away):

OK - I will stop...

Onokai · 12-19-2006, 08:40 PM

That a good one Dean-but it does look like it could snap on a tough cap.
Mark

hot wire · 12-20-2006, 06:53 AM

There has actually been very few issues with the S1000. Now that Raymarine went to a rudderless feedback sytem. Ray's definetly had problems with their older autopilots. Most of which had alot to do with their rudder ref. unit. Most people felt their electronics were fine. From a tech friend of mine at Raymarine, he was always dissapointed with that external rudder ref. unit. But now that they've figured out a very reliable and easy program for the "rudderless" system, most people are very happy---he said. The newer S1000 also does things like cloverleaf, figure 8's, expanding squares...anyway, I'll be getiing mine put on b/f Hallibut season 07. Don't give up hope with Raymarine, they've been geeing more and more awards for their equipment!

Tom

Bendman · 12-20-2006, 08:12 AM

Thanks everyone for their input. Flapbreaker, That website proved to be very helpful with a plethora of info on the S1000. All in all most everyone that has this unit is happy with it. The biggest complaint that I found about it is it's inability to track very well at speeds lower that 3 knots. BUT! That is on the older models. The newer models will track good down to 1.5 knots.

Nalu, I went into this AP thing not thinking about price. I had 4 grand in my head. Hence the procrastination on getting it. I stumbled on the S1000 because I have the Raymarine C80 Radar/chartplotter unit and thought it better to stick to the same brand if possible. That way I'm dealing with one place if I have problems.

It sounds like a lot of people had problems with the older unit not only due to its inability to track at low speeds but most people were not setting it up properly and/or they had some issues with the brain. All in all it sounds like they have most all the bugs worked out. I'm not sure if I'm going to go with it or. I'm the type of person that believes that you have to spend a lot to get a lot. But I have to say that the more i read what people had to say about it the more I liked it.

Thanks again!

Pete

Nalu · 12-20-2006, 08:33 AM

Bendman- Sorry if that sounded like I thought you were just looking at price. Just to be clear, it was a general statement for everyone reading, not trying to indicate that was the case for the S1000. I do know that when I looked, price was a big factor to me.

As I said, I have not used others such as the S1000 so I cannot say pro or con. I too have heard of the horrors in the past, but have also heard that the current stuff may be decent. When I purchased my AP everyone else had rudder feedback sensors which I knew were problematic through my research.

What I can say is that having Nautamatic located just a few steps away from the ramp in South Beach is pretty awesome. They have treated me right, and knowing they are always there to help is great. Worth the difference in cost? I don't know about that, but time and again the Gladiator is rated as the overall best AP out there.

If my boat was smaller, and without twins, I would have to look real close at the S1000. At 1/4 the cost, if it performs at all decent it would be hard to pass up.

Bendman · 12-20-2006, 09:16 AM

Nalu no sorry needed. I knew exactly what you meant. It's something that a guy is going to use a lot so why scrimp. There is definitely a LOT to be said about having Nautamatic's (sp?) at my home port.

Nalu · 12-20-2006, 09:59 AM

I do know that one of the reasons that the Gladiator costs more is that it comes with a fluxgate compass with gyro. I've had others on my boat that have commented that their AP's wouldn't track anywhere close to my boat with 6-8 foot stern quartering seas with wind chop. The worse the weather, the more I'm glad of the AP.

Pilar · 12-20-2006, 11:42 AM

AP is on my longterm wish list. And I have all Raymarine so that would be my first choice for the same reasons as Bendman. Knock on wood ... no problems yet. Easy to use and reliable.

But .. reading this thread has been educational. Good info thanks guys.

Fluxgate compass is far superior to allowing your GPS to figure your heading. As you slow down the drift on the calculation is pretty bad. So far I only use mine to keep the radar display upright and to steer by.

Does the full blown AP from Nautimatic do both trolling engine and main?

Nalu · 12-20-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilar

Does the full blown AP from Nautimatic do both trolling engine and main?

No, but.....sort of...kind of. Though Nautamatic doesn't claim it will work, with my kicker tied to the mains with an EZ-Steer, I have no problems using the kicker with the AP. I have talked with others, and they have said the same. I can comfortably troll for salmon at slow speeds, though when it gets sporty the damping isn't as good as with the big motors. Since the pump is so big, you can also hear it run more with just the kicker on.

I rate it as very good, but not great with the kicker tied in. Problem is, you have to tune the unit damping wise for either the mains at high to medium slow speed, or the kicker at slow to very slow speeds, not both.

hot wire · 12-20-2006, 06:19 PM

Nalu-

I have thought long and hard about doing that too. I just figured that an autopilot for slower trolling needs to be more sensitive. The AP for the ocean, well, if it can hold a heading fairly close, or clover-leaf around a school....that's good enough for me. Anything to free me up while out in the big blue. This year I put the TR1 Gold on my Honda 15. Man, that thing performs just about as good as the introduction of sliced bread! I am in love. I'm too darn picky when it comes to performance. I am a Raymarine fan too. I have the new Radar, GPS, C80, and DSM250. I also went with a standalone DS600X on the stern bulkhead to watch while fishing. (I just set them to the two diff freq's.) So for me, I can see just a cool $850 for the main motor. The $2500 for the kicker was the right move. I couldn't get anyone at TR1 to tell me that the Gladiator would perform near as well as a TR1 Gold on the kicker---with an EZ steer attached.

Seems that half of my season is Chinook in the Columbia, the other Ocean for Hallis, Lings and someday...Tuna!

Hope this thread helps poeple thinking about doing the same thing..

Bendman · 12-20-2006, 08:05 PM

Last year Spoonplugger and I were out tuna fishing on his sweet 23' ACB....(enter dream of floating on pillows)

Anyhoo, We were some 75+ miles off shore and got to looking at our fuel. We were into our 1/3-1/3-1/3 mark by a little bit. Captain Jerry fires up "the kicker" that draws from it's own separate fuel cell and then fires up his TR1 hooked to his kicker.

We rode back in for several miles on the little motor...(still catching tuna mind you at slower speeds). Once we were back well within our fuel range we fired the main back up but left the kicker on. With the main motor running and the kicker supplementing /steering we were able to troll at higher speeds with the TR1 running the show. It worked sweet! Just a thought for the river/ocean guys

out there tuna fishing.

Pilar · 12-20-2006, 08:07 PM

Thanks Nalu, makes sense. I spend an inordinate amount of time tuning control systems and so I can relate to what you are saying.

I would tune for wide open since the gain is higher and the consequences of a loss of control more serious.

Hoghunter · 12-21-2006, 06:59 AM

TR-1 Gold and Gladiator all the way. Hands down best autopilots ever put on the market in my opinion.

I owned, Simrad and Furuno's before and they were good but don't compare to the Nautamatic products.

When I bought my new Grady two years ago I put both of them on and use them constantly. Absolutely love them.

Nalu, you got it right about the AP steering with a following sea or head sea. I get where I'm going faster and use less fuel with the AP steering than if I steer myself.