one climber found dead on mt. hood

[stickflicker]

Just got done reading on oregon live that they have found one of the climbers dead in a second snow cave.This is a sad day for the families my there faith help them through this difficult time.

[boutdoorhunter]

[Super Fluke]

Originally Posted by boutdoorhunter

[ryleysmom]

Many prayers for the families of the climbers and the families during such this hard time. lets wish for better for the other two climbers.

[Norski]

A sad day indeed, praying for the other 2.

[Ryan Pultz]

Do we know if it was the one that has been Turing his cell phone on or one of the other two very sad I will pray for everyone affected rp

[Washington Hunter]

Originally Posted by Ryan Pultz

Do we know if it was the one that has been Turing his cell phone on or one of the other two very sad I will pray for everyone affected rp

For some weird reason they won't identify the person who died. All they will say is that he was found near where the cell phone had been used.

[wilsonriverfisher]

This is a awfull ending as frequent mount hood visitor and a avid downhill skier this kind of hits home. Emergency locator beacons are a must this whole thing could have be avoided. Emergency locators should be required for each and every major climb on mount hood IMO cell phones give us to much of sense of security and often dont work when you really need them most.

[Fishingfanatic]

they never release names until the family gives them the OK. I assume its the hiker that had been injured.

[StinkyH]

Originally Posted by wilsonriverfisher

This is a awfull ending as frequent mount hood visitor and a avid downhill skier this kind of hits home. Emergency locator beacons are a must this whole thing could have be avoided. Emergency locators should be required for each and every major climb on mount hood IMO cell phones give us to much of sense of security and often dont work when you really need them most.

Agreed. The loss for the family is terrible.

*********************

Regarding rescues in general...

It's a frustrating situation... folks can climb ill prepared and during harsh weather and can put many others at risk to save them when things go south. If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail. You hit the nail on the head regarding the avalanche beacon.

Regarding rescues on Mt Hood in general, is it true that that folks get billed for rescue efforts? Seems like they should since they should be responsible for their actions and the outcome.

[ampersat]

What bugs me about this is that on almost any other peak in our vicinity, a permit is required. Why is Mt Hood different? Granted, I don't climb and don't know what's involved with the permitting but it seems to me that something different is being done because we don't hear about climbers being lost too often on any other peaks.

It's always tragic when things like this happen, and I pray for everyone involved.

[TroutGirl]

I think the permit system is just a way to limit the impact and keep the experience good. On Mt. St. Helens they permit it. It helps control the number of people up there at any one time. It also is an information point in case someone doesn't come back. They can look down the log and see that someone didn't come back at the time frame and they alert the backcountry rangers.

The other peaks in the area are lower. Mt. Hood has a height and tecnical aspect that appeals to climbers. Its also got easy access to the base trails. I know Three Finger Jack and some of the Sisters are technical climbs, but they are more remote, so they get less traffic. There are pretty regualr problems on Mt. Rainier too. I don't think Hood has any more or less problems than any other peaks.

I really don't want to see us turn to mandatory outback insurance or other such stuff. I'm glad my tax payer dollars are there to rescue people. One day it might be me. I think of it just like the Coast Gaurd is there to help folks on the ocean. Sometimes there is human error that led to the situation, sometime its just plain bad luck, and sometimes a combination of the two. But, we can't know that before sending in the rescue. So we must send the rescue. Yes, sometimes people make bad decisions, wrong conditions, poor equipment. But, I still want us to have some capability to rescue people.

My thoughts and prayers are with the families and the rescuers.

[24 on/ 48 off]

Mandatory FREE personal locator beacons. The feds need to pony up for 20 or so of these things.

Permits required. You must sign in, and sign out. You must also have a required minimum amount of gear.

Anyone caught above the Palmer lift level, without a permit, will be fined BIG time.

The government charges us to park alongside highways, and even to do a day hike in many forests. It's time we understand the costs involved for all of this.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Firedog]

A preety interesting thread here on one of the Climbing boards http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum...page/0/fpart/1

[RichH]

Originally Posted by 24 on/ 48 off

Mandatory FREE personal locator beacons. The feds need to pony up for 20 or so of these things.

Permits required. You must sign in, and sign out. You must also have a required minimum amount of gear.

Anyone caught above the Palmer lift level, without a permit, will be fined BIG time.

The government charges us to park alongside highways, and even to do a day hike in many forests. It's time we understand the costs involved for all of this.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I really don't want to see us turn to mandatory outback insurance or other such stuff. I'm glad my tax payer dollars are there to rescue people. One day it might be me. I think of it just like the Coast Gaurd is there to help folks on the ocean. Sometimes there is human error that led to the situation, sometime its just plain bad luck, and sometimes a combination of the two. But, we can't know that before sending in the rescue. So we must send the rescue. Yes, sometimes people make bad decisions, wrong conditions, poor equipment. But, I still want us to have some capability to rescue people

Yes, we should have the capability to rescue people just like the coast guard but as a minimum a rescue beacon should be required, kind of like a life jacket on a boat. Required equipment that is available if needed.

[sliverpicker]

I feel emergency locators should be mandatory for anyone attempting to climb the mountain. $5 is mighty cheap insurance IMHO

Here's a pic of a Chinook hovering over the top of the mountain earlier this morning.

[El-Kabong]

anyone who ever goes out into the woods should be required to have an MLU. same for anyone who goes fishing, and anyone who goes onto a boat or drives a car or walks outside.

in fact everyone should be required to be in constant contact with authorities whenever they do anything.

also, given the information that has been reported so far, a MLU would not have made any difference. they left good information as to where they were going and what they had for gear. the problem became the weather, in fact the cell phone signal had been traced. so the search teams knew where to go but they could not get there.

EK

[Cornbread]

50 or 60 bucks per week to rent one from PLB Rentals:
http://www.plbrentals.com/default.asp

Pretty cheap considering the alternative.

[RichH]

Originally Posted by El-Kabong

anyone who ever goes out into the woods should be required to have an MLU. same for anyone who goes fishing, and anyone who goes onto a boat or drives a car or walks outside.

in fact everyone should be required to be in constant contact with authorities whenever they do anything.

also, given the information that has been reported so far, a MLU would not have made any difference. they left good information as to where they were going and what they had for gear. the problem became the weather, in fact the cell phone signal had been traced. so the search teams knew where to go but they could not get there.

EK

If the things were such a waste of time (MLU) then why haven't they found the other 2?

[El-Kabong]

because they left it with the injured climber. (the MLU being the cell phone that told the searchers where the injured man was).

regardless, if you bother to read the time line of what happened, knowing the location of the team was not he problem. the weather was.

[RichH]

And if the other 2 were carrying them then there would not be people risking life and limb up there now searching, they would be able to go directly to where they are. And yes, it was a problem because the team did not stay together.

[Firedog]

Would have to guess that most teams that climb and take a MLU only take one. SO if your partner is injured and you are leaving him on the Mtn. while you go for help it would make sense to leave it with him. Granted these guys didn't have that particular item but it wouldn't have made a difference in this case. weather was the determining factor, they had a real good idea of aprox. where he was and when the weather cleared enough they got in there and found him. Was a huge set of bad luck with the way the weather came in and one of them getting hurt.

[Bartman]

Originally Posted by El-Kabong

anyone who ever goes out into the woods should be required to have an MLU. same for anyone who goes fishing, and anyone who goes onto a boat or drives a car or walks outside.
EK

I'm sorry,but that is just silly, your talking apples and oranges. this is a VERY high risk activity, that is in no way comparitable to the other activities you have compared it to. to tell you the truth, I find it very hard to understand why an avid climber wouldnt own a peice of epuipment that doesnt cost much more than the specialty clothes and shoes they wear,that not only could possibly save their life,but also limit the danger of those trying to find them.

[The Chub]

In before the lock!

God bless their souls

[El-Kabong]

Originally Posted by Bartman

I'm sorry,but that is just silly, your talking apples and oranges. this is a VERY high risk activity, that is in no way comparitable to the other activities you have compared it to. to tell you the truth, I find it very hard to understand why an avid climber wouldnt own a peice of epuipment that doesnt cost much more than the specialty close and shoes they wear,that not only could possibly save their life,but also limit the danger of those trying to find them.

you should look at the stats on number of climbers killed vs the number of boaters killed and you might have a different opinion.

rant all you want about would have, should have, could have. the hard facts of climbing, boating, driving, taking a shower... are that people die in the process, yet people keep doing it. In my heart I know that Kelly James died doing something he felt capable of, and something he loved doing. I hope when my time comes the same thing can be said about me.

My heart goes out to the James family. To the other families I really hope that they find your missing ones.

EK

[flapbreaker]

Honest question here, Does anyone know what the weather was forecasted to do the day they started out? I'm just currious if there was sudden unexpected weather conditions or did they know it was going to get tough up there? I know that when I plan ocean trips I'm studying the swell and wind wave forecast. Sometimes it's wrong but not THAT wrong.

[Super Fluke]

The time is ticking away for the other climbers.

[adobe wall]

I've got mixed feelings about charging folks for a rescue. The volunteer organizations get their funding via donations. What seems to have most folks concerned is the use of taxpayer dollars.

I don't like having people go into harms way to come get me but when all is said and done, that's one thing I don't mind supporting via tax dollars. The guard units and Air Force rescue personnel, in many ways this is no more expensive than their regular training missions.

If we're going to spend taxpayer dollars to keep those helicopters airborne a certain number of hours a year, I'd just as soon some of that time be spent helping in rescues.

I reckon it's all in how you look at it. We can all second guess those climbers from the comfort of our homes. I'm glad no rescue personnel have been seriously injured going after them.

jmho, aw

[Bartman]

I am in no way supporting a rescue "fine", but I do believe that in mountain climbing, where time is of the essence if you become stranded,and you wiil be putting countless other people at risk to look for you, that it couldnt hurt to require climbers to carry a 5$ a day item that could just save your life, and just as important,if not more ( because you chose to take the risk) reduce the risk to people trying to find you.

I am very sorry for the families loss, and pray that the other climbers will be found.

[ampersat]

According to what I've heard from the media:
- these guys were experienced climbers
- none of them lived locally
- a beacon device is relatively inexpensive compared to some of the other gear climbers use

That they were experienced climbers means to me that they knew the risks they were taking in packing light for the trip. It's not like going in a boat where you're just taking up a little more space; you have to carry it all on your back. They took a calculated risk, one that many of us might have made were we in their shoes. It's one that may have cost the one climber, and possibly all of them, their lives. It's not for us to second guess. You make your choices in this life and I make mine.

That none of the party were from around here it means to me that they may have underestimated the weather factor in their choice to climb. When one of their party came up injured, it slowed their progress. And they became trapped on the mountain. The weather has been absolutely awful up there in the meantime, some of the most punishing conditions a human can face (sub-freezing temperatures and winds in excess of 80mph).

In the end, the rescue personnel have acted safely and prudently and none of them have been hurt so far. In the end, having beacons probably wouldn't have mattered in whether or not they get home alive although it likely would have shortened the timeline on the rescue efforts. And in the end, they challenged the world and themselves. I respect and pray for them and I respect and pray for those who search for them and pray for their success.

[Hook-Line-N-Sinker]

As I understand, and please correct me if I am wrong, the climbers actually had a great weather window to complete their trip. Only due to the injury of one of the climbers were they held up long enough to not be able to get off of the mountain safely before the series of storms hit.

I too agree that beacons should be worn as there are many trecherous areas on the mountain. Do climbers currently have to check-in before they head up the mountain and turn-in itineraries (sp?) before they start up the mountain?

I hope for the best but every day that passes becomes more and more heartaching. My thoughts and prayers are with the families as well as with the other two men who are still up there somewhere. Hopefully they will be home soon!

[Firedog]

There are two threads on the cascade climbers board about this event. A lot of very good info along with some posts from rescuers who have been involved with the rescue attempts this week. Acording to the posts Jerry Cooke was also a memeber of the board. These are people who are educated to this type of climbing and have knowledege of the routes and skills it would have taken to complete this climb. I learened a lot just by reading the threads here http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/forum...stlist/Board/7 I know noting about Mtn climbing and wont pretend that I do. I know that accidents happen in all phases of life and these three men experienced one that apears to have taken all three of thier lives. My family prays for these men and thier familys and will continue to do so.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by Bartman

I'm sorry,but that is just silly, why an avid climber wouldnt own a peice of epuipment that doesnt cost much more than the specialty close and shoes they wear,that not only could possibly save their life,but also limit the danger of those trying to find them.

Please note the MLU's were developed prior to the widespread use of cellphones. They are very old and rather ineffective technology.

Cellphones (and now SatPhones) are a much better device than MLU's. Cell signals can be triangulated to provide position.

There are many shortcomings to the Mt.Hood MLU's.

1. There's like one receiver tuned to the frequency.
2. Like anything else the batteries wear out.
3. Typically, only one person per party carries it....while everyone can carry a cellphone.
4. You have to be able to activate it....it's not transponding until an emergency.

5. It doesn't matter WHAT DEVICE you have when the weather clamps down like it has, and relief parties cannot reach the upper slopes.

People talk like the MLU's are some kinda magic cure-all. They're not.

As for danger to rescuers, while accidents have happened like the Reserve's helicopter crash on the Hogs Back a few years back, the risk to rescuers is nominal. Most of these guys are climbers themselves...it's their way of giving back. Furthermore, at least for the Air Guard these searches provide excellent training before they get sent to places where people may be SHOOTING at them.

[ehunter]

What good would a beacon have been if they could not get to him anyway because of the weather?

What happend to his other gear all I have heard they found was his body they did not say any thing about his pack sleeping bags and stoves all things that would have helped to keep him alive?

[24 on/ 48 off]

What good would a beacon have been if they could not get to him anyway because of the weather?

It narrows down your search field from hundreds of square miles to about 10 feet.

--spud--

[flapbreaker]

I don't know about MLU's but you can buy personal locator beacon's that transmit your exact GPS coordinates.

[El-Kabong]

as noted those things are only good if you CAN ACTIVATE THEM. from the latest reports the missing two climbers did not get that chance. they didn't have time to take 2 ice axes. given what they appeared to be planning, there is NO WAY they would have opted to leave those behind.

[ehunter]

Originally Posted by 24 on/ 48 off

It narrows down your search field from hundreds of square miles to about 10 feet.

--spud--

Ok that makes sense, what about the gear they had does it seem strange that they did not leave more the injured climber??

Also how old were the tracks they found I thought that there was a lot of new snow on Hood. Does that mean that they may have been trying to find their way down after a couple of days of waitng?? I have read the first snow cave was big enough for 3 people???

thanks just have questions?

[El-Kabong]

from what I have read the "2nd" snow cave was not really a cave at all, but a sheltered position where they climbers established a belay station. think wind break more then cave.

from the reports it sounds like they had descended from the summit to get out of the approaching storm. during that descent JK was injured. (my speculation here, but a dislocated shoulder has been specified as his arm injury now) anyway, they dug a snow cave where Jk was found. later the other two started out to get down. they traversed to a spot where they thought they could set up a secure belay station and that was the "2nd cave"
I don't think the footprints could be that old. the weather would "erase" them pretty quickly. that area is VERY steep so there would not be a lot of snow accumulating up there. more like an icy crust.

[ehunter]

I am confused i thought they had bivey sacks food for a couple of days ect. Have they not found any of that stuff?? I read that after the sherriff reviewed the photos they didn't think they had much for the way in survival???

[24 on/ 48 off]

Originally Posted by El-Kabong

as noted those things are only good if you CAN ACTIVATE THEM. from the latest reports the missing two climbers did not get that chance. they didn't have time to take 2 ice axes. given what they appeared to be planning, there is NO WAY they would have opted to leave those behind.

I agree with this. If in fact the other two climbers were leaving him behind to go get help, then it would have been perfect timing to activate the locator. That way, IF the other two climbers would have reached help, they simply could have had the rescuers follow the beacon back to Mr. James.

--spud--

[FinFansea]

Originally Posted by garyk

Furthermore, at least for the Air Guard these searches provide excellent training before they get sent to places where people may be SHOOTING at them.

Army Guard, the Blackhawk's and Chinook's are part of the Army National Guard. The Air Guard (Oregon) lost their Pavehawks long ago, they currently have Fix-wing aircraft only. Also, aircrew's have to be fully mission qualified/trained before launching on even the smallest of search. We don't train in the middle of a real-life mission at 11,300+ feet.

I'm not ripping on you Gary, I just want to clear up the Air Guard issue.

[garyk]

No problem. You can understand my confusion due to this 2002 Mt. Hood rescue (hard to believe it's nearly five years past) and others. I thought the 939th was the only unit involved in the current effort:


"The Air Force Reserve Pave Hawk helicopter was attempting to rescue the remainingfourfallen climbers when, as it hovered near a mountain ridge, slowly twirled out of control and crashed onto the snow-covered slope.
The rotor blades broke apart and the chopper rolled over several times....

The rescuers are from the U.S. Air Force Reserve's 939th Rescue Wing based in Portland, a unit that often participates in Mount Hood rescues."

[FinFansea]

Hey they got that one right. Usually everyone assumes that we (1042nd Medical Company) rolled down the mountain that day. Sunday CNN, FOX, etc. reported that we have had trouble up there before.....wrong answer. We saved their $#%^! that day.

[Bartman]

Originally Posted by flapbreaker

I don't know about MLU's but you can buy personal locator beacon's that transmit your exact GPS coordinates.

I assumed thats what an MLU was, if not, I would have the better locater.
as far as a locater not helping these guys, I think we all know that, but it did shine light on the fact that there are no requirements for having one, also it may not have saved them, but it sure would make recovery of the deceased a little easier and get the searchers out of harms way a little quicker.

[garyk]

Originally Posted by FinFansea

Hey they got that one right. Usually everyone assumes that we (1042nd Medical Company) rolled down the mountain that day. Sunday CNN, FOX, etc. reported that we have had trouble up there before.....wrong answer. We saved their $#%^! that day.

Copy that.

BTW and FWIW, I was up on the Hogs Back in the first days the route was reopened after that PaveHawk mishap. I knew there would be downtime as our team roped up at that point as is the norm, and waited for climbers ahead of us to clear the bergshrund. Had planned on using those minutes to clean up whatever wreckage fragments I could stash & carry out.

I was very surprised to see that slope where the chopter rested was swept absolutely clean by avalanches....all that was left was the natural avalanche ice/chunk debris. Absolutely no clue left of what had happened there a few days early.

I led the final pitches that day. The hard ice above the bergshrund really focused my attention to not have a replay of what had happened there.