Crossover fishermen here? Fly vs. Drift-Float

[gthfish]

It seems most here drift or bait/float fish almost exclusively. There may be some like myself that will use anything available to catch a fish. When talking to fly guys, sometimes just mentioning using a spoon or bait results in silence--end of conversation! Conversely, many bait guys give fly fishermen a cold shoulder. Any others out there that have seen this from both sides? Or is it just me?

[Silver Hilton]

Nope, it's not just you. I swing both ways as well, and have seen the attitudes you describe.

[Ty]

I see this crap all the time. Makes what to puke. I am a very very accomplished fly fisherman and have seen an attitude amoung the flyfisherman around here and it has always been that way.

I am thinkin when the water gets real low I am gonna take my fly rod along though. Cause I know I can catch um with it too.

[Ty]

I see this crap all the time. Makes what to puke. I am a very very accomplished fly fisherman and have seen an attitude amoung the flyfisherman around here and it has always been that way.

I am thinkin when the water gets real low I am gonna take my fly rod along though. Cause I know I can catch um with it too.

[gthfish]

My own post got me to thinking--Maybe the cold shoulder from bait guys is a result of the elitist attitude of the fly guys. Or is it the which came first--the chicken or the egg? I grew up with the fly rod, my dad was a fly exclusive guy. Then I had to bike up to the brush choked creeks to worm fish (or grasshoppers) with my friends during the week with my friends. 'cant we all just get along?' Rodney King

[lilnorthfork]

I love to fish... period. Method is secondary though, until recently, I fished only with a fly rod for the past 15 years. The reason... that is what I had and the places I fished cooperated.
To be honest, I have NEVER encountered this 'attitude' among anglers that is so often spoken of. I wonder how much of it is perpetuated through general discourse when maybe, in reality, it isn't quite so prevelant. Maybe somebody could do some poling here to get some statistical reference. Just my $.02. lnf

[LurkerDave]

I’m also a pretty avid fly fisherman who is now enjoying re-learning conventional gear for salmon and steelhead and I wouldn’t worry about this debate, heck fly fisherman argue amongst themselves over whether indicator nymphing is truely fly fishing (I’ve heard it said “you might as well be using a bobber” ). In jig fishing you can see lots of gradations of the technique between the two rod preferences. As long as you’re out there enjoying and appreciating the outdoors, and our favorite resource, does it matter what rod you use? Nope. Its like Catholics and Episcopalians arguing over who’s religion is the best. :smile:

[Corkie Monster]

I've seen this with a few local flyshops. I walked in there and had excellent services and all smiles. When they found out I was looking for flytying stuff for drift fishing gear, I got the total cold shoulder and was tereated very Rudely. I was even told to leave at one place. So from now on if I need some of this type of stuff I just order online to avoid the bull****. To me all fisherman are equall. It should'nt matter what your preferance is.

CM

[ 02-03-2004, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Corkie Monster ]

[gthfish]

Don't ask--Don't tell?

[tailchaser]

Yes the attitude definitely exists. Not sure why but it does. I switch all the time. I love catching fish on a fly, but I love catching fish any way I can even more. Sometimes one is producing more than the other so I'll go with it. I don't have any quams over it, but it's very real. There's even a post on ifish right now about using scents on fly's (I believe for sturgeon) and someone balked at the idea saying that really wasn't fly fishing. Some people are just snoots about it, so let them think whatever they want, if they give me attitude in a fly shop they won't get a single dollar from me.

tc

[lilnorthfork]

Not trying to start an arguement here Tailchaser, but I see personally defining flyfishing (i.e. scent on fly for sturgeon), or any other method of fishing for that matter, as being very different than proclaiming 'Fly' is superior to 'Drift-Float' or visa-versa. The poster of that comment clearly 'swings'. Maybe I am just trying to defend the general good in humanity (or find it for that matter) but, instead of conjecture, it would be interesting to ONLY see posts of specific experiences relative to this debate. Now being told to leave a flyshop because you want materials for drift fishing is pretty specific. Maybe we should organize a protest at that shop... we could picket in front with flyrods in one hand and casting or spinning in the other. :grin: Again, not meaning to step on any toes, just adding my $.02 to the discussion. lnf

[blacktail]

I do both and will continue to do both. Yes, there are some snobs out there that believe flyfishing is the only legitimate way to fish. Also, as pointed out above, some of these same people argue amongst themselves as to whether using an indicator is okay. Some go so far as to refuse to use anything but dry flies.

For me, I fish the way I prefer. I flyfish primarily for trout, and gear/bait fish primarily for steelhead and salmon.

Mike

[bacon_to_fry]

good post.

i fish flies because i like flies. casting them, looking at them, tying them. finding new ways to rig them. argueing with my friends about them. whatever. been that way for years. flies are cool. enough said.

however, there's just times when flies can't do what, for example, a float and jig can, and i've fished flies long enough to be able to admit that. probably opening a bag of pink worms there, but it's a point i think most fly fisherman either get to or spend the bulk of their time trying hard to deny.

i've tried indicator fishing for steelhead, and (while i personally can't understand why anybody'd want to feel anything but the take of a swinging fly) it seems to me, if you're fishing a little creek and trying to roll cast 8 split shot and a two-fly rig into a slot 4 feet deep and 4 feet long, your fly's out of the game before it's had a chance to get down and your cast is either hinging out on you or you're just winging it because of all the weight. sure, if you're making a 40 foot roll cast and hauling the line it might make some semblence of a (less than accurate) fly cast, but jeez, how fun can ducking and hoping be? pretty close to drift fishing, if you ask me. why not try a bobber and jig in this situation instead of torturing yourself? the fly gods won't strike you down. trust me.

don't mean to get all up on a soapbox, but i think a well-thought out understanding of certain techniques, in
particular float fishing a jig in little creeks AND a searching big water with a properly fished swung fly (and swung fly etiquette) is deadly. fun, too. it can open up your sense of discovery on a multitude of river sizes, increase your enjoyment and help you understand the validity of many techniques.

plus you get to buy more cool gear. just my $.02. hope that made sense.

[tailchaser]

Ummmmm, am I the only one that was confused by lilnorthforks post????

"proclaiming 'Fly' is superior to 'Drift-Float' or visa-versa. The poster of that comment clearly 'swings'"

Where in gods name did I mention that one? I'm not sure you weren't reading backwards or something, but you have me confused with someone else.

tc

[lilnorthfork]

Hey Tailchaser, I tend to confuse myself sometimes (happens when your full-time job is raising a coupla toddlers). Let's see if I can make it more confusing. You said:

There's even a post on ifish right now about using scents on fly's (I believe for sturgeon) and someone balked at the idea saying that really wasn't fly fishing. Some people are just snoots about it, so let them think whatever they want

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">I think you were refering to:

At that point, you're using bait/scent on a fly rod. I have bait rods for that.

<font size="2" face="verdana,arial,helvetica">By he "swings", I am referring to the fact that he has bait rods (I assume that means he fishes with them) so must not feel one or the other method is "superior".
Anyhow, others have stated more clearly on this thread the point I wanted to convey... I fish for the adventure, the surprise, and the scenery. Method doesn't have much bearing in this equation. Gotta go change some diapers. :smile:
lnf

[Beaver1]

I once read a book called the River Why.... :grin:

[tailchaser]

HMMMMM...I guess you took it different than I intended, I'm not worried about it since it doesn't seem like you are either. My statement of "I love catching fish on a fly, but I love catching fish any way I can even more" speaks for itself so I'm not going to try and evaluate this one more than it needs to be. cheers.

tc

[rola76]

I drift/bait/plug fish 99% of the time, but when I need a change of pace I'll fly fish. Therefore, I can sorta address both sides, plus my dad and one of my best buddies fly fish.

One thing I've noticed is that there seem to be a lot of people who fly fish because they think it's more "sophisticated." They gear up with Sage and all fancy stuff, so a lot of drift fishers poke fun at them.

But how many of those drifters, such as myself, won't use anything but a Loomis, Rogue, Lamiglas, etc.? Doesn't that make us a bit snobby too?

To each his own, but my own is definitely "non" fly fishing!!

[gthfish]

After fly fishing for 40 plus years(Not exclusively), I discovered that Idaho had a steelhead run, and it was rapidly improving. After a trip or two with corkies and eggs, etc. on a spinning rod, I noticed that the Level wind guys had it goin on, so I bought a level wind, and taught myself the intricacies of the birds nest technique among others. Still havent caught a fish on a float/jig yet.(just made my first order of first cast jigs last night.) Then a year or so ago, I noticed guys with REAL long fly rods and stopped to watch. Watched a young guy land 4 consecutive steelhead while cast/swing/step downstream, then repeat. Pretty soon, I brought my flyrod out(9ft--6w.) , and copied the technique I'd seen. Soon , I was into fish on the fly. Seems I've come full circle--different tools for different jobs and different water!

[Banknit]

Oh yes! this attitude definitely exists. It's turning (Or has turned) into a eccentric sport for the upper class. You may not get snubbed at first for being a hardware fisherman but surely you will when they find you out not to be a doctor,dentist or lawyer.(This is exaggeration of course but you probably get my gist!)Seems like the common folk flyfisher has become a minority and I'd say it really got popular with the eccentric's after the movie "A River Runs Through It" came out. Thanks a lot Brad!

[Wreckless]

The "eliteism"(is that a word?) does happen. Some of those guys spend more on cigars and hats than I have on raingear :tongue: .
Having said that I ran into a guy up at Hosmer (aka mud lake) a few years back, that was "the ultimate elite fly fisherman"....DRY FLIES ONLY!! :shocked: I was putting in my beat up Grumman canoe, alone, and invited him to join me. WOW could that guy catch fish and what a great guy!!! I learned a bunch that day. We shook hands and went our seperate ways that evening. I think it's the person, not the gear.

[PTS]

Sorry to get in so late on this interesting thread. IMO, the poster just above me got it right. "It's the person, not the gear". I have put in over 50 years of both fly and gear fishing for all kinds of fish. A friendly attitude and giving other fishermen their space is all it takes too get along. Unfortunately, there are always a few bad apples with either a gear rod or fly rod in their hand that can create a problem.

Gear fishermen often don't understand how a fly fisherman wants to work through the water. Fly fishermen have to understand that they have to work around gear guys who want to stand in one place most of the day (not that all gear fishermen do that). The only time there are problems is when there is a lack of communication.

On another point. This is the first year in 50 that I have put my drift rod aside and stuck to flyfishing only for winter steelhead. I think it is just more of a challenge, and I enjoy that. In many places it would be easier to make a presentation by drift fishing. In fact there are some of my favorite spots where only an underhand flip of the wrist with a drift rod can get into the water. Still, I can find enough flyfishable water to satisfy me. I have only landed 13 winter stellhead this season by flyfishing, but that has been enough to provide many a fine dinner.

On a different point, I am disapointed to see so many people using bobbers. I put in the time necessary to be pretty darned skilled as a drift fisherman. In those days, I saw virtually no bobbers used. IMO, using a bobber and bait or jig is just so easy to catch fish it is hardly a challenge. It is very effective, but I would like to see people learn drift fishing skills and learn how to detect that subtle take. Of course, I have used a bobber and jig myself when it was a new technique. My old fishing partner, Jim Bradbury, was very influential in making it such a popular method.

As I've said many times before fly fishing is by far my favorite way of fishing! It's not that I catch a bunch of fish this way it's just that fly fishing gives me the maximum amout of fishing enjoyment.
I've encountered very little of the elitist atttides some of you have described here but no doubt it does indeed exist.Those guys are in the minority though and they do not take away from my enjoyment of the sort.
There is also elitism among the conventional gear guys too. Whether it be because of types of boats, gear or whatever it's still there so to say this is just a fly fishers problem is not entirely accurate.
Just my $.02

[ 02-04-2004, 03:53 AM: Message edited by: Stew ]

[blacktail]

PTS,

Don't make the assumption that everyone that fishes a float or "bobber" does not have the skills neeeded to drift fish or any other method for that matter.

I personally use a float a large percentage of the time whether it be using a jig, bait or something else. I don't do this because I can't drift fish. I do it because it is very effective and I don't get snagged up and have to re-tie so often as when drift fishing. This means more time actually fishing and less time re-tying.

Mike

[Grantspastor]

I do both and like both methods a lot. There are times when flies are absolutely deadly for Steelhead...and there are are times when drift fishing, plugs, or jigs are deadly. I just like to catch fish!

[greenbuttskunk]

Yep,
I'm Bifishual.
Love to toss a fly whenever I can, but realize there are species of fish and circumstances that
require the use of gear. I enjoy all of it.
GBS

[24 on/ 48 off]

Come May, June and July, you will never see anything but a flyrod in my hand while fishing.

--spud-- :smile:

[blacktail]

GBS,

This was supposed to be a thread about "cross-fishers", not cross dressers. :grin:

Mike

[Banknit]

Hello again all! I just want to state for the record that I am not bashing flyfishing whatsoever. I love to flyfish too I was merely agreeing that a definate trend toward flyfishing has occurred in the last 20 years or so. A trend that appealed to a wider variety of people. Some of those people just seem to be very protective of the sport they love so dearly. It's not so aweful different than a sports fan defending his favorite team or a Ford or Chevy (or BMW/Lexus)lover being proud of their favorite make and model. Some people just take it a bit to serious at times I believe. But then again, who am I to say. The only thing I have trouble with is when the eccentric person that thinks he/she is better than me actually expresses this through their actions. Other than that I love to meet new people on the bank and exchange thoughts, opinions, tactics and experiences. That's what it's all about. Then of coarse it's nice to get into a ball of fish now and again too! So, fish on and get along!

[IFISH4U]

Isnt it great just to have the time to fish, it wouldnt matter to me how, I just smile when Im on the river, fishing is great. Its all good and so are most fisherman.

[lilnorthfork]

Great bunch of Ifishers here!
Unfortunately Bankknit, I can't relate to your encounters with the flyfishing elitist doctors and lawyers. My flyfishing has been with the likes of Stew and Greenbutt (who I thought was in Maine... where are the icefishing reports?). :grin:
The fact of the matter is, there are a lot of maroons out there and, for some odd reason, flyfishing has a way of attracting them. Thankfully, none of them ply this board. I still think it would be fun to see a poll that somehow puts some numbers to some of this discussion. Any ideas?
lnf

[seasel]

I also use whatever method I will enjoy the most: fly, spin, baitcast, hardware, plug, bait, yarn or some combination of these. Time of year, species pursued, and water conditions help me decide what to use.

One thing that frustrates me though, is when someone ties up a prime piece of water and fishes with a method that just isn't working. I've watched guys work a plug through a slot, either driftboating or side planing, and they hit nothing, so they go up and try it again... and again... and again. When they finally leave, someone else runs something else through the same water and hits fish.

More than any other type of gear, I've seen someone with a flyrod tie up a prime spot seemingly only to practice casting. Often, to reach what they consider to be the "right" water, they will wade out so far that they either spook the fish in the run, or they cast beyond the fish. When they finally leave, another method produces fish.

I have tried to politely inform these folks that something other than what they're doing might work better, but I've never found them receptive. They're going to catch a fish, by gosh, and no one will tell them how to do it or get them to move.

I sometimes think that if a flyfisherman wants to fish the near bank, he'll walk back to his car, drive to a bridge, cross the river and drive to spot directly across from where he was just standing. He'll wade halfway across, and only THEN will he fish along the bank he was just standing on.

I know not every flyfisheman fishes like this, and I know that folks using other gear can fish like this, but I see it most often from someone holding a flyrod.

No matter what you use, be aware that others came to the river to fish. No one came to the river just for the opportunity to stay our of your way or to watch you fish.

Seasel

[fishnpray]

Wow-

Some threads get going quick. I can't seem to catch anything besides the occassional trout on a fly, so I resort to other methods for other species, but God Himself knows that I'd love to hook into anything else. Guess I need to practice up. Elitism is an unfortunate problem in any sport. Heh, we have it among us gear-men even. What it comes down to is that it has to be about fun.

-Luis :grin:

[Navigator]

I fish both ways. Each method has its challenges. All have their simularities. (It is all about presentation - stupid!). I took up plunking for the challenge - no kidding, I think plunking is a lot more difficult than flyfishing.

[Mark Vickers]

I've heard many rumours of animosity between the two groups, but frankly, I've never experienced it.

I too go both ways. I actually enjoy fly fishing more, but I'm a lot more successful with regular gear. (If I only had a good fly fishing mentor...)

Maybe I've not witnessed the friction between flyfishers and gear fishers because I've not paid any attention to it. Or maybe because I'm not very good in either discipline that no one is willing to give me grief. :blush:

[FishfulThinking]

I'm of the "use what works" school, and have fished with everything from live bait to dry flies. What really matters is YOUR attitude. I just try to greet my fellow fishers in as friendly a manner as possible, regardless of our respective tackle, and 9 times out of 10 get a friendly response. Of course I have occasionally enjoyed outfishing with my flyrod the occasional beer drinking lawnchair jockey who had decided to razz me on my fly set up.... :grin:

[LurkerDave]

I know I basically started gear fishing again after years of nothing but fly fishing (primarily for trout) because I really didn't feel I was learning the way I should have by spending days thrashing the water for winter fish with very little positive reinforcement. Summer fish are different but winters are tough on a fly under a lot of conditions. I've now got a better understanding and some confidence that I'll probably start carrying my flyrod along to work the water first before I start up with the float fishing. But mostly I'm just enjoying salmon and steelhead fishing no matter how I do it. There are snobs in every walk of life and I know I was considered a fly fishing purist once upon a time. As long as you try to be as ethical about your preferred method anything anyone says is just personal preference and opinion.

I recently "came out of the gear chucking closet" the other day at Kaufmann's and those guys didn't seem to care. They keep feeding my fishing addiction and taking my money. And like was mentioned above, so much cool gear!

That said, it still sticks in my craw a bit that I've resorted to using Power bait in any form, but those nice fish help me forget. :smile:

[Blue Tip Spinner]

i'm with fishfulthinking. i enjoy all aspects of fly fishing (swinging, indicator nymphing, and dry flies) and bait fishing. some ways are more effective in certain places, but either way, i'm out there to "feel the wiggle" of a fish on the end of my line. whether it be bait or fly, i don't care. i'm on the river to enjoy the air and scenery along with making the odds of catching a fish more in my favor. people that are "snobby" about their way of fishing are just closed minded. their way is the best way in their opinion. that is their problem, not mine. i don't let them bother me, i just let them watch me catch fish.

[TillamookChinook]

I agree strongly with both sides. I fish both gear and flies and usually don't catch fish with either. It used to be that the fish I didn't catch with gear were bigger than the fish I didn't catch with flies, but I have been not catching salmon and steelhead on flies for several years now and I find it is more fun to not catch big fish on flies than on gear.

I guess that makes me an elitist.

And I still haven't caught a winter steelhead on a fly under 17 lbs.

TC

[SilverFly]

You are not alone, I also go “both ways” (fishing that is!) In fact I sometimes blend techniques like drifting flies with casting gear (works great for springers.) I can’t really say I’ve run into a lot of attitude either way. I usually carry a flyrod, and in general, I have to give credit to the gear crowd for being friendly and sharing information. Sometimes when salmon fishing I get questions and comments like “that’s got to be a blast on a flyrod!”, - it is! On the flip side, fly-fishermen are pretty scarce when I am using gear so I can’t really give a valid opinion that way. I do think that your question is rooted in a sense of “superiority” associated with fly-fishing. As far as one method being “superior” to another, the only thing fly-fishing truly has over other techniques is from a conservation standpoint in that it has a lower release mortality. Everything else is a matter of aesthetics and personal preference.

From an aesthetic perspective fly-fishing has many appealing aspects and is my favorite method. I think the main beauty is in it’s simplicity. Having caught fish many ways I can say that it is a lot more fun with no sinkers, swivels, and other stuff on the line. It’s also satisfying to catch a nice steelhead on a fly you tied yourself. I think the main thing with fly-fishermen is the attitude that it’s not JUST about catching fish but the enjoyment of the process as whole.

As a result, it is possible that some fly-fishermen develop the opinion that there really is no “process” or “sophistication” to other fishing techniques. Almost as if using gear or bait removed challenge from the sport. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Interesting that Navigator mentions plunking. My Dad taught me to fly fish and yet speaks about his brother, who was a plunker, as though he we’re some kind of legendary figure on his home river. If there actually are any fly-fishermen who feel this way, I would strongly suggest that they do some "cultural research” and seek out some genuine “old timer” gear fishermen. While these guys may not know aquatic entomology, I think the fly-fishermen would find they are walking libraries of fishing knowledge, river information, and local history, with their own unique sense of aesthetics regarding their sport.

Perceptions are a weird thing. It’s easy to jump to conclusions about someone else’s attitudes based on what “group” they belong to or how they react to you. It may be that a fly fisherman does not respond to discussions on use of bait or lures because they simply don’t have any experience with those methods and it doesn’t mean anything to them. And, the same may be true for the gear guys not relating to fly-fishing because it is outside their frame of experience. One thing common to both groups (and everyone) is that nobody wants to appear stupid discussing things they are not familiar with, - especially with people they are not familiar with. Of course, sometimes people do give the “cold shoulder” but I try to give the benefit of the doubt. I may even be guilty of this myself by not wanting to stop and talk (probably in a hurry to get home before my kitchen pass expires!) but if I happened to have a flyrod in hand, I suppose I could be perceived as a “snob.”

The only area where “superiority” actually matters is in attitude. Personally, I don’t care how someone fishes so long as they are doing it legally and they are respectful to others around them.

[ 02-04-2004, 04:22 AM: Message edited by: SilverFly ]