Fisherman's Choice, Diesel v. Gasoline?

[Master Baiter]

I am thinking about getting a new rig for my fishing adventures. My current driving habits are mostly freeway, I keep my foot out of the gas, I pull a drift boat but hope to get a camper and jet boat in the future. After much debate, I think I have convinced myself to go with a 3/4 ton diesel rig. However, I have no experience with owning a diesel.

Could any of you fellow Ifisher's that have made the transition (or have always owned) give me some facts from your experience? Such as:

1) Type and cost differences in maintaining a diesel vs. gasoline? I've heard the engine oils and capacity differ?

2) Gas mileage and fuel cost differences over the last year and lately? Are the prices coming back down below reg. unleaded again?

And any other useful facts that I should know when looking. My budget has me constrained to the used market circa 1995-1997 models.

Thanks in Advance!

Thomas

[WaterDog]

Diesels do not cost that much more to maintain, repairs however are more $$$$. I’ve have my Powerstroke for over a year and will NEVER go back. I get 18mpg average and more power than I know what to do with.

Diesels are not for everyone so think long and hard before you make a decision. You gotta love the smell of diesel, the clatter, and think the turbo whine is music to you ear’s.

In my mind your only choice is dodge and ford. Chev’s new engine is not proven yet. There are several web sites like www.ford-diesel.com that are good resources. I cant remember the dodge site.

Email me for more info if you like. Good Luck!

[Master Baiter]

Thanks WaterDog, I do like the pur and whine of the diesel and can live with the smell, hopefully the wife can too. That is not an issue though, this time it is my turn to get what I want!

From my research thus far I must agree that Dodge and Ford are the choices. I really like the Crew cab and all the room with it. The dodge is the best looking (in that era) truck of all in my opinion and but I am a little concerned about the AT problems that I have read about. The Chevy aside from being new tech also has the same typical CHEVY complaints, cheap chassis and interior parts!

I may follow up with some Ford specific questions later, thanks for the invite!

Thomas

[SLEDDER]

MB, I currently own a dodge (1999) cummins. The automatic tranny has given me no problems yet (40,000 miles) My next truck will probably be a standard tranny, because of the extra maintenance required for the auto. I get 18mpg, 14mpg pulling a 21" sled over the hills. Mileage would be better with a standard tranny. If you happen to purchase a dodge I would recommend a 1998 or newer. It would have the 24 valve engine. More power, cleaner burning, less maintenance, better fuel economy. I won't go back to gas. The cummins overhaul schedule far exceeds the gas. Average 400,000 then rebuid motor, of course the rest of the truck would probably look better in a junk yard.

[DK]

even though i am a dodge cummins owner and love it don't under estamate the chevrolet it has been proven, and has a good track record look at all the delievery trucks with isuzzu diesels in them, once you haved owned a diesel you won't go back

[Master Baiter]

Hey Sledder thanks for the info, the 24V sounds nice! If I get a dodge I will probably shoot for the Manual just to be safe. I found a review site and there were about 25 to 30 complaints about AT going between 30k and 60k (mostly 1500's), sometimes again shortly after replacement. Do you know if they use the same AT in the 2500? What extra maintenance were you refering to with the AT?

Yeah DK I will give some props to Isuzu for its diesel engines but I am more concerned about the drive train being untested. Also, I own a chevy now and I have always complained that the interior is sooo cheap and the folks at Edmunds.com had the same comment confirming my opinion.

Thanks for the comments Sledder and DK!

Tight Lines ---------?

[Jeffhead]

I have a 95 Powerstroke 3/4 ton, extended cab, 2WD. With a 9.5 ft camper and 18 ft sled on the back it's like there not even there, more power than ya know what to do with!!! 18 MPG without and 14.5 MPG with. Standard tranny, don't think I'd like the auto, more maintenance and much more expensive to rebuild I'm sure. I have 125,000 on mine and have had to replace the batteries, starter, vacuum pump, glow plugs, clutch master cylinder and the water pump. They were all pretty pricey but when the motor will last 300 thousand or so I think that it is worth it. I would not go back to gas. My Dad has the Triton V-10 in his new motor home and he really likes that motor, lot's of power in it too. Diesel up here is running about $1.60 or so a gallon, I'm suprised that the truckers haven't driven it back down some. The Fords have a 14 quart oil sump and I change oil every 3 -5 thousand depending on what kind of driving I have been doing. Oil change w/filter runs about $35. If I had to do it again I'd still pick the diesel but would most likely go with the 4WD, really haven't needed it, but it would be nice to have.
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff

[SLEDDER]

MB. The transmission is definatly different from a 1500 to a 2500. The tranny behind the cummins is I believe different than what they put behind the 360 in the 2500. The bands need to be adjusted every 30,000 and then you have the oil change. You are looking at 140.00 every 30,000 miles for a complete flush and band adjustment. The price will vary from dealer to dealer, so I would call around. Try looking into Turbodieselregister.com and go to the BB discussion board. It is for dodge,cummins only. Me personally would rather be Cummin than Strokin!

[Master Baiter]

Jeff,

Sounds like the items that you had to replace are typical at 125K! From some limited sampling, fuel price round these parts is $1.99 in town and as low as $1.50 at the truck stops. It seems that when I am traveling, diesel averages cheaper than gas particularly in logging country, yeah I know Shocking . The 4WD is a definite must for me. Do you think the gas mileage is much different between 2WD and 4WD?

Thanks for the very detailed info!

[WaterDog]

I would agree the manual tranny is better. Less maintenance and it does hold up better unless you really feel the need to race everything from the stop light.

Just remember the Powerstroke is 444 cubic inches, cummins is 360. There is no substitute for cubic inches! Bigger is better!

I know this is going to turn into a brand war. It did last time. Let the flames begin!!!!

[SLEDDER]

WD, No flames here. They are both good rigs. I am watching the Chevy before I commit 40K.

[DK]

ford and dodge are both good trucks its all personal preferance the drive train in the chevrolet (tranny) will out last both ford and dodge by far, dodge made a big mistake by not going with detroit allison when they had the chance

[Master Baiter]

Whoooooa folks, lets try and keep the flames on low heat! Good, relatively unbiased facts will serve the greatest good. I like both so I don't need to be sold on a brand! Each one has its strengths and also weaknesses, just like the North River thread concluded about sleds. For instance, more CU could give more HP but at the cost of fuel consumption, more mouths to feed. Some may not need to pull their house off the foundation or get to the grocery store in 60 seconds flat but would like better economy, trade-offs are important.

Hey Sledder, I like that site looks like a wealth of Info. Do you know why the 2nd Generation forum does not allow engine/DT discussions?

[This message has been edited by Master Baiter (edited 02-01-2001).]

[SLEDDER]

MB. The second generation is the 1994-2001. The engine/DT. discussion is in blue right under the first listing. It is broken up into 12 valve and then 24 valve. You'll see what I am trying to tell you, if you go back to the site.

[Jeffhead]

Not whinin' about the bolt on parts and stuff that I had to replace, just lettin ya know what I have had to deal with so far. Might want to ask about what has been replaced on the one's you look at. The total of the items I mentioned was about $2000. The glow plugs would have been a warrenty item if I would have caught them before 100,000 miles, I bought the truck used and the Ford warrenty goes with the truck. Unfortunetly I rolled over 100,000 in the summer and didn't figure out I was having problems until 104,000 in November. I don't think that there is any difference between the 2 and 4WD as far as gas milage goes. I have friends that also have stroke's w/4WD and thier milage is the same.
Hey Sledder, nice play on words, got the smile maker workin'!!!
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff

[WaterDog]

I know sledder, just messing with you! I have never been impressed with GM. I’ll stick to the rigs that have proven themselves. If circumstances would have been a little different, I would have gotten a dodge instead of ford. BTW mines a 97 4x4 regular cab.

Both are great rigs.

[Master Baiter]

Jeff, I was in no way implying that you were whining . On the contrary I thought you had faired well, but WOW $2000 for those items is definetly a good chunk . Luckily I have connections at CSK Auto for commercial pricing and 25% discount for parts.

Thomas

[SLEDDER]

MB. Hook us up!! 25% off parts, that's quite a deal. You could buy a 6.3 liter chevy and still keep it on the road! Or was that a 6.2 liter, hard to keep track of all the gems!

[Wyndknot]

I have a 98 dodge 4x4 auto w/3.54 diff and the cummins. It has 40k + so it should be
almost broken in. I get 14mpg around town
and a best of 21mpg on the highway. towing
my 6k trailer I get 17 mpg @ 65mph.
You can add 2mpg with 4x2 or subtract 2mpg
with the 4.10 rear gear on the 4x4. It has
been a good rig so far. Your milage may vary.
My best advice would be check out your prospective ride carefully, and do not take
it to a dealer for maintenace unless you
absolutly have to. The trans maintenace that
was mentioned above cost me $50.00 at a local
trans shop.

[Master Baiter]

Thanks for the comparative spec's Wyndknot!

[Joe]

MB, My preference is a beat up old four banger with a few hundred thousand miles on it. Well, not really but its all I can afford after buying an aluminum jet boat.

[Fishplay]

Hello MB:
I have a 96 F350 crewcab 4x4 with the automatic. Its got 54,000 on it and I havn't had any tranny trouble yet. As far as millage is concerned I average 14 to 15 mpg. pulling my 19ft Maxweld (heavy boat) and it doesn't change when I add the 10.5ft camper. I can't give you any spec's. on unloaded freeway miles because I've never burnt a tank of fuel without either the boat or camper loaded. The newer fords are not available with 410 rearends so it's just as well your looking at used. My buddy had to buy gear sets for his 1999 and it was spendy. As for smell...only the people behind you have to deal with that! Whatever choice you make I wish you the best of luck.

------------------
FISH!........GET IN THE BOAT!!!!!

[DK]

Master Bater get the one that does what you want it to do like in some of the other posts they both have there down falls, being a cummins owner get the manual trans as the trany is dodges weak link as for ford don't know enough about them, i know ford makes a quality truck, with the dodge you won't be buying glow plugs

[Fish mojo]

I decided when I plucked down my hard earned cash to go with a 99(new then)Silverado 3/4 ton extended cab with the new 300HP 6 Litre V8 4X4 and automatic. I have a 8 foot slide in camper (2000lbs) and a 19' aluminum I/O. Plenty of power, 14mpg in town, 10 mpg pulling my toys. Going with the diesel(chev didn't have it then, so Ford) would have cost $4000 more up front. I calculated the break even point for fuel savings was at 150,000 miles. My rig costs 10 bucks to change the oil. My point- look at the big picture before you think diesel. PS-check out the new GM interiors, they are not anything like the pre 99 ones. Plush and comfy. Try sitting in the back seat of any other ext cab and you will see the difference. I'd buy one again in a "heartbeat". Sorry, re-read the original post - Thought he was buying new.

[This message has been edited by Fish mojo (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Trout,myster]

Here's my opinion:

I own a Dodge 2400 4x4 which I traded in a Ford F250 4x4 on. It's the Cummins 12V, last one I think they had. At the time, the mechanic warned me the 24V were having "electronics problems", and the 12V was in the color I wanted anyway.

The diesels are a preference thing as Ford makes a pretty damn good rig. Newer ones I don't personally like, they tried to copy Dodge and didn't do too well, but that's my taste. Ford has a huge history of transmisson problems with both auto and manual, but I understand if you go with the F350 Heavy Duty and a manual 6-speed, the problems don't exist. Owners of those would be a good resource.

I chose the auto because I was tired of shifting. I have 27K on my truck so it's not even broken in yet for a diesel, but I've had no problems so far. I average 17-19 mpg back and forth to work (3 miles of county gravel road each way) and have no rattles or problems after two years. I live on top of a mountain (Bald Peak near Newberg) and pull 3-4 tons of hay at a time up the hill each year, several times. Again, plenty of power and no problems. My boat is probably in the 2800 lb range and last summer, my buddy and I went to Paulina Lake with the boat and my 9 1/2 foot camper on which weighs around 2900 lbs loaded. My mpg from Oak Ridge to Paulina and back to La Pine was 18.5 mpg! We were both amazed!

Why the Dodge? Well, I drove both and looked under the hoods of both. The Ford had "snort", no getting around it. But...it was brand new and smoked like hell! There is no room in the engine compartment left to stick your hand in. The Dodge had no smoke, I liked the in-line 6 Cummins (and the reputation), and after the first test drive with the auto, I told them I wanted "this one". It's a Quad-cab with 4 doors, turns a LOT sharper than my old Ford did, is quiet, and maintenance costs are reasonable.

If you're towing, just tap the button and drop it out of overdrive. Torque converters don't like constant locking and unlocking. Out of overdrive,I still cruise at 60 with no problems. Treat your truck (Dodge or Ford) as you want it to treat you. On open highway empty in OD, I pull about 21-22 mpg. I'm plenty satisfied with that figure and I haven't added anything except a K & N airfilter, which I highly recommend. If the turbo has excessive whine, have the dealer check it as there's probably a clamp touching something else causign the whine. Otherwise, you know it's there but it's not excessive.

The Chevs look nice and have some poop, but I have an Izuzu diesel in my tractor. Wait till you go to buy parts for it! Japanese motor and Japanese inflation!! Besides, it smokes terrible (could be the age) and rattles like a coffee can full of nuts & bolts. Probably not what GM put in their trucks, but it convinces me not to go there.

What would I buy again? Another Dodge in a heartbeat. Would probably go with the manual transmission, just because I think they have the edge on the auto. I haven't researched the transmission so I don't know who it's made by, but I've been told it's actually an Allison. Beats me, but mine works, gets good milage, and I'm sold. Suggest you drive them all and pick what you're happy with. Plug it in at night when temps drop below 50 degrees and you'll never be sorry.

------------------
Troutmyster

[WaterDog]

Here are some numbers and comments on my 97 f-250:

Oil change cost $34. $6/gal of oil(rotella t)4 gallons, $10 for filter( Motorcraft fl-1999) at Wally world.

Fuel is $1.67/gal and I can pump it myself.

Fuel filter $11.79 at DIS online.

Fuel range between 570 to 760 miles depending on load.

Glow plugs $8-$12 each. Takes about 4 hrs to install if you do it yourself(others experience). $100 if you are still under warranty. Get it done before warranty runs out.

Glow plug relay $20-$30 at napa and do it yourself (easy). Plug it in every night and it will last longer.

Can be modified to produce 1000+ lb-ft of torque and 500+ hp(Cummins and ford).

Engine life 300k-400k. Longer depending on driving conditions.

Initial cost is $4k-$5k more, resale is $4k-$5k more. Break even may be at 150k but engine is just broke in and gasser is worn out. I don't plan on getting a new truck for at least 15 years.

Diesel sounds better. ooooooohhhhhhhh TURBO

Chev's isuzu has aluminum heads. Can it handle the high compression? I'll stick with good 'ol heavy cast iron. The only thing aluminum I want is my boat. Wouldn't mind the Allison 1000 tranny though.

Manual tranny with 4.10's rule. Talk about grunt! Will walk out any boat ramp w/o having to press accelerator.

What did I miss?

[Fish mojo]

After 3-400K miles, you may have an engine, but the rest of you vehicle is worn out. Also, sounds like alot of maintenance cost. GM gas engines go 100K miles before tune up. Oil changes 10 bucks. I'm up to 28,000 miles and nothing for maintenance. Plug it in at night? No thanks!! 1.67 for diesel? and you have to pump it?? I paid 1.39 for gas and someone does it for me. Not to be bashing- peace brothers - just stating facts from the other side.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Waterdog is obviously a ford fan and so am I. A couple other things which you should be aware of from my observations follow.

I bought the Ford (1999 crew cab) for several reasons the Ford fans already mentions above. I really liked the size of the crew cab, In 1999 Ford raised the cab height 3 inches, seems real roomy. I went to a dodge dealer and looked at the Quad cab and when I put the child seats in the back for the test drive there was absolutely no room between the front seat and the kids car seat. I had to either cut the kids legs off or not take them. I am rather short legged and had the front seat all the way ahead. That alone ruled out the Dodge quad cab. Never even took the test drive because the family didnt fit.

I like the Powerstroke over the Cummins but it is a personal choice, the biggest thing is the additional cubic inches.

One of my biggest complaints about my buddies 1998 dodge is the seat belts. They come out of the back of the seat and not off the cab. He cannot put a seat cover on his seats without burying the seat belts. During hunting season when he has his seat covers on we are illegal on the road. Maybe there is something custom out there he hasnt found it yet. I have no reason to look.

My brother has a 1995 Ford with 175,000 miles, His automatic tranny went out last week. It is $2500 for a new one installed. Ouch!!. He hauls a 100 gallon fuel tank and about 1000 pounds of tools at all times. He is a logger and almost all his miles are on logging roads, with little to no highway miles. Pretty tough driving.

I think the dodges get a little bit better mileage, due to the smaller engine size. They both have more than enough power out of the factory to do anything I would ever want to do. No reason to tweek either of them.

I would buy another powerstroke in a heart beat. 30K miles and not a problem, but that should be of all new pickups.

[Rippenlips]

MB, the auto show is this weekend. They have them all. Even a new Power Wagon that I would love to have. I like the Dodge but if I could get a Ford for a steal I would buy it. The 5 spd in the Dodge is a New Venture 4500, excellent trans. The Chevy auto's are 4L60e, like the older turbo 350 but with a 30% overdrive and the 4L80e which is the Turbo 400 with overdrive, both pretty good. It took a couple of years for them to get the bugs out.(mid 80's) The new Duramax has the Allison 6 speed auto. I would never buy a first or even second year new designed vehicle, they need to work the bugs out. The 94 Dodge was the first generation and I can't remember the Fords. Hope this helps.

[Salmonator]

I've spent a few miles in the back seat of my '99 2500 quad-cab and have no complaints about room given the fact that it's a quad not crew. On many occasions I have two adults in the back seat. I always bring the seat as far foward as possible to keep them comfy but they always say I can bring it back some...

[Spooled]

Hi MB. I agree with mojo on this one. Gasoline. I work for Chevrolet, so I am partial to GM. Sorry you feel the interiors are cheap. Wait until you try a Dodge. Fords are better, but their seats suck. All 3 build good trucks as far as the work they will they are capable of.

My expertise is in parts, and I will tell you that almost any diesel part will cost more than it's gasoline counterpart. There are many reasons, the main being that diesel's compression ratio and design require much more precise tolerances, thus higher manufacturing costs. There is no guarantee that a diesel will last any longer than a gasoline engine, it is just what most people think. In theory they are correct, in real life it depends on many factors.

As for transmissions. GM/Turbohydramatic are known throughout the world as the standard bearer. The highest towing capacity in our line (Chevrolet / GMC) is ALWAYS achieved with an automatic. I can't speak for Ford or Dodge on this. The new Allison 6 speed automatic being the top of the line. Manual transmission parts are very expensive if the break.

I have driven the new Duramax Diesel we offer and can say it will send the others back to the drawing board. As for the reliabilty of this engine, time will tell. Isuzu, which builts this engine, is the largest diesel builder in the world, so I would'nt bet against it.

I drive a 2000 Silverado with the 5300 (327) engine and love it. It easily tows my drift boat( so could a Corrola though). I have 24,000 miles on it and the only problem was a clunk when starting out sometimes. This was common to a lot of the 4WD models, and is fixed by using a upgraded fluid in the transfer case. A bulletin addresses this issue and will be performed under warranty.

It is kinda funny to me, that people actually put mileage so high on their list when buying a truck. It will take a long time to recoup the extra cost of the diesel option costs you at buy in. Sure some day it may even out, but most people don't keep their truck that long. Gasoline is quieter, cheaper right now and does not exhibit the cold weather liability that diesel does.

My neighbor has a Dodge / Cummins and it is a nice truck and he loves it. I am just glad he does'nt stay out partying all night, because you can't hear yourself think when he pulls in his driveway.

This probably won't sway you, as you seemed to rule out gas already, but your posts asked gas or diesel. Enjoy whatever you end up with, thats the main thing.

[Salmonator]

As was mentioned before, the purchase price is a few thousand more and the sell price is a few thousand more. Not sure where the loss is even if you only keep it for a few years. My last truck was a nice quiet '95 chevy Z-71, 350 auto. I used to have to shift down to second to make it up Klien hill out of Newport @8mpg with my 6k pound boat. Now I take it at 70 in third @14mpg with the same boat. Not that I need to do 70 up Klien hill but it's amazing how your foot likes to gravitate to the floorboard just because you can

[Salmonator]

Don't be afraid of that little 360 diesel. It's extremely overbuilt (and detuned due to the not so overbuilt tranny). With a few plug in and bolt on mods you can push 800lbs of torque no prob. As I mentioned in the other thread, a guy on the turbodieselregister has a 600hp 1250lbs torque cummins, runs 13's and is his daily driver. I did go through a tranny at 22K but it had more to do with the fact that I slightly "bombed" the motor and didn't know how to tow with a lockup converter. I also get 14mpg towing 22' sled over the passes (summer fuel) and around 20-22 empty highway. Joe

[Master Baiter]

I wish I could oblige all my fishin bretheren with my limited good fortune, but only employees and family of are eligible . My dad and brother are employed by CSK (Checker-Schucker-Kragen)

Although anyone with say a guide business or something can get a commercial account established. Get one guide buddy and a group of friends to keep the purchases up!

Don't worry Joe, the size of the cummins diesel is no deterent for me. It is a damn good motor and well proven. If the Dodge offered a crew cab I would be sold completely.

Thomas

[This message has been edited by Master Baiter (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Bait O' Eggs]

One more thought on Diesels. A year ago I went to the steens mountains. Drove clear to the top (about 10,000 feet) and wasnt sure if I was getting off. At that elevation diesels dont like to run real well. I think they need to be re-ported or something at low oxygen locations. Mine was running better than my brothers. He could only keep it running a minute or so at a time. Just flat kept dying, missing, sputtering, chokeing.... wasnt a pretty picture. Finally got them both off the hill where they could breathe

[Master Baiter]

GWH, I know what you mean, I already have tired 4.3L 6 cyl that is in need of some R&R. My goal is to buy the truck outright then finance a sled a little down the road. Got to get the horse before the Cart !

Spooled and Mojo, I have not ruled out gas completely but I am fairly sold on the diesel concept. Gas mileage is the biggest concern for me with the prices of all fuel being so volatile and uncertain these days. When you get into a truck that size, the gas motors get awfully thirsty . It also seems that they hold value a little better.?

WD makes a good point that the diesel is just broke in when the gasser is worn out. I put alot of miles on a vehicle (350/wk just to work and back plus many long distance fishing adventures/yr). When I get into the remote areas, diesel is usually cheaper than gas and I am used to pumping it myself. Is all diesel self serve in OR?

Trout, I here what you are saying about shifting, gets to be chore sometimes especially over years. The only reason I might shy away from AT is the reliability issue.

As previously stated by BOE, the Crew Cab seems like a really good idea! I have one rugrat and another in the oven so space is going to be at a real premium shortly. Cutting off junior's legs may not go over well with the wife either, but i'll ask! j/kOC. BTW Salmonator, my buddy has QC and I have spent some time the back too. I think for short trips under an hour NBD but a 5+ hr well......

BOE, thanks for the heads up about the elevation issue. Sounds like a nervous situation . Hopefully if do end up with a diesel, I will not encounter that situation often. I typically roam the coastal range .

Well thanks everyone for the facts, opinions, and advice this will all be of great help in my pursuit of MY almost ultimate machine! I say almost because the ultimate would be brand spanking new. The bottom line is that I will end up the deal that comes along that just can't be refused since I am at the whim of the used market. Trade-offs will be evaluated and sacrifices will be made !

Tight Lines, Pray for Rain!

MB the hard way!

[DK]

one other good thing about a diesel that a gas motor won't handle, try pulling your sled in 95 degree weather loaded with gear air condition on pulling a grade and see if you can even make the grade without overheating the motor, ok you did it once didn't boil over but got hot, now do this a few more times over the summer and see how long your gas motor lasts diesels were made to work hard real hard to hurt them

[Trout,myster]

Master Baiter-
Yep, the shifting thing is a choice of laziness. However, I've so far been pleased with the performance of the Dodge auto 4-speed. And I really like manuevering around with my boat while having my coffee in my hand. I agree, the reliablilty issue is always there with an auto, don't matter who makes it. I've pulled the maximum 11K lbs or more with mine more than once and it doesn't complain. I did, however, spring for the full extended warranty since I'd never owned a diesel. Lets me sleep nights.

The altitude thing I hadn't heard of. Mine ran fine at Paulina Lake which I think is pushing the 7K mark on the altimeter. Still had as much power at the crater as it did in La Pine. Weird, worth snooping around on that issue.



------------------
Troutmyster

[Fish mojo]

I'll have to dispute the claim DK made about gas motors not handling the hot temps. My GM 6 litre has factory engine oil and tranny coolers with factory dash mounted temp gauges for each(do you have an automatic transmission temp gauge-or even a warning light?). Last summer had the whole rig-camper, boat, family and gear- Eastern Oregon-HOT Days and big hills. Never even thought about having a problem. Oh, yeah, the A/C was running full blast the entire time keepin us cool.

[This message has been edited by Fish mojo (edited 02-04-2001).]

[DK]

the only reason i made that statement was because better than 1/2 the gas motors don't have all the heavy duty coolers oil coolers tranny coolers where as a diesel right off the lot will tow heavy loads with out any add on, (yes it has a tranny guage and a automatic lock out when (if) the tranny gets hot another good guage to have (diesel) is a piameter that will tell the true story on how your diesel is running

[Osprey]

Being a Ford Guy,I've got friends who own both,that cummins is sweet for it's size it almost keeps up with the Stroker,better mileage with the Dodge,it's the rest of the truck that bothers me.
My neighbor just bought a new 2001 F-350 Lariat crewcab, dually with the powerstroke and off road package,OOOOO baby Nice rig

I still like my 78 shorty 4x4....Hey it's paid for My.02....Os

[Tanner]

Friends don't let friends buy GM. I drive a 96 Suburban with the vortec v-8. Computer problems, Interior fall apart problems. Heater problems. Going on 3rd heater core and it has less than 100K miles. It will be replaced with a Ford F-350 Crew Cab Diesel in the next couple of months.

------------------
Work is for people who have an expensive fishing habit to support.

[DK]

mb no, nothing to do with how there driven, dodge has lots of problems with there auto trans, shifting problems and related, there is a site www.turbodieselregister.com/ lots of info on the dodges. i'm sure ford has one out there somewhere also. dodge is best with the manuel, or take the auto in and have it built, shift kit torque converter and some of the beefer goodies they seem to work alot better and last alot longer

[WaterDog]

www.ford-diesel.com

[Master Baiter]

WOW, my first two page post!

Ran in too my cousin this weekend, he owns a 98 Dodge Cummins w/ AT and has 75K. He was claiming 20 mi/gal no matter what he was doing, in town, freeway, or pulling his ski boat. He had to replace his tranny already though! I wonder though if alot of the tranny issues are from new diesel owner trying to drive their rigs like a gas rig. Trying to accelerate too fast maybe? All that torque delivered too fast has got to be hard on something?

Well it looks like I may take a look at the new market a little, the dealers are offering some screaming finance options and they are hurting for business. If I can manage a new one, I won't have to worry about someone elses ignorance prior to me obtaining it and I will have the factory warranty too. But who knows, I will just have to call in all my markers and spend some time in the market place.

Thanks once again for all the good feedback everyone! Keep it coming if this horse can take some more beating !

Thomas



[This message has been edited by Master Baiter (edited 02-05-2001).]