Sharing a Run with Strangers

[Snagly]

O'City's post on his bad encounter on the river got me thinking. I don't get out on the rivers nearly enough so I'd be interested in hearing others' views on the how they fish when there are strangers on the run.

In BC last fall a couple of times I'd be the only person in a long run. One or two people would show up. A couple of times they tried to step in below me. I said "You're welcome to join me, but if it's all the same to you I'd prefer it if you started at the top. If I catch a fish, I'll go back to the top and that way we can share the run. Is that OK?"

Two of the three times I tried it, it worked fine. (The third time there was previous bad blood so we didn't have much of a conversation. Ten minutes later I hooked a hog and eventually got it to shore. I asked this fellow "Joe" if he'd mind taking a picture with my camera and he said "No. It would be an insult to the fish!" That has to be one of the funniest lines I've heard in a long while. I thanked him, landed and measured it out and watched as he walked away.)

Anyway, does everyone stay planted on "their" spot when fishing a run in OR/ WA, or do people cast and step down?

How close do people fish to one another before someone tells the other guy to spread out (or go elsewhere)?

Related question. What do you do when a drift boat stops on the OTHER side of the run (a very long cast away, but fishable) and two guys start fishing the same water? I consider that encroachment but since the people who did it were fly fishing ineptly I bit my tongue till their guide and they left.

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The worst steelhead season in Oregon is still better than the best steelhead run in Singapore!

[Wog]

Hey Snagly,

Do they even have Steelhead Runs in Singapore?

Personally if someone wades out into the water I am fishing I move upstream. More often than not the imposing fisherman has just pushed the fish in the hole I was fishing upstream and on the bite.

[rob]

It is RUDE to step in below someone! Those who show up last don't get a chance at the fish first. Boats too.

[fishchaser]

I feel that "If you want this sight more than I do than you just darn well get here before I do". I get here @ 3:00 a.m., when will you be there?

[Kwiky]

Funny this thread has come up, because I had something like this happen last time I was out. Scales and I had just anchored at the top of a long stretch of good drift fishing water when another boat came down and anchored below us - close enough to make it very difficult, borderline impossible, to continue fishing. I am a pretty small guy and mild mannered, but I think I suprised Scales by yelling down to these guys "Hey, when we snag up on your anchor rope will you reach down there and undo it for us?" Not particularly brilliant, I know, but all I could think of at the time. They didn't get the message. Since it was early in the day and we already had a big buck in the bottom of the boat, we just up-anchored and put some distance between ourselves and the losers. We all seem to agree that this sort of behavior sucks, but what I'm wondering is, what is the best thing to say or do? I'd sure be interested in hearing about any tactful approaches that have worked in the past.

I think Snagly's first comment is a very good one to say tactfully. I would think that a majority of fishers would respond favorably to that. For one's who don't, I suggest that you ask them if they will enjoy you and your friends, who are going to be informed about this behavior, fishing right next to you all the time from now on out?!? I have asked this to both bankies and boaters that were out of line and stubborn with their wrongful intrusion, and that usually does the trick. If not, I have this thing that people like that just don't belong on our rivers and sometimes I used to let anger put me at risk. I would move an exposed handgun closer to me and then I will just park right smack on their lines until they leave. ... However, this hasn't occured in a long time and I am mellower now so I really don't know what I'd do with a total jerk that won't move from being out of line. I will try to be accomodating as possible after an education and then just try to decide if it's just better to move on. I prefer to fish in peace and relaxation nowdays. While I know these offenses do occur, I haven't had it happen to me much in recent times. - RT

[dummy]

this is what i run into all the time on the bank. i show up at o dark hundred and get my spot fish with glow stuff for an hour or two then i usauly catch one just as other bankies are looking for a place to fish. buy the time i land my fish they set up and cast 10 to 15 feet from me. then i will get another and they move closer. so i say man i should of went to blue creek so i can cast and have some room. they always ignore me. then i move 40' down and catch another then they folow and now they wont real up when i have a fish on. so i move back and warn them that if they follow i am going to kick there butt. the sweatest reward was nailing another while standing on their rock. i usauly dont have any problems with drift boats mostly guys that are not to good on the sticks row over my whole but that i can understand. i only had a boat park in front of me once and i started cucking spoons like a wild man says opps alot. some people think combat fishing is a fack of life i dont when there is 20 miles of open river and 20 guys on it. if you see a guy catching fish you would be better off asking him what he is using then fishing next to him. at least ask if they dont mind.

[Snagly]

No, Wog, there aren't any steelhead in Singapore except for the pictures on my office filing cabinet. However, there's a fair amount of steelhead tackle being used starting about now as I try to hone my form for Alaska in April. So if you see anyone fishing the outgoing tide under the Shears bridge with spin-n-glo's and drift gear, it's me working on my feel.

Dummy, at least you have the satisfaction of continuing to catch fish even when crowded by others. I'm lucky I guess not to fish too often in crowds -- the American River in Sacramento can be unfriendly but I haven't fished it this year. I certainly agree with the view that "He who gets to the hole first gets to fish the hole as long as he wants."

[O'City Fisherman]

You would think that people would have some common sense and ask before doing.

like my son-- no thats hot-- next thing the darn hard headed kid is crying because he burnt himself.

[Wog]

I have never had a good experience with people that commit these selfish acts. Every time this has happened to me and I politely suggest a solution, I get responses such as:
"You don't own this river..."
"I can fish where I want..."
"I'm not standing where the fish are..."

I think RT hit it on the nose. In my younger days I also would come un-gluged over these situations. Now I just move on, its not worth it to me ruin a good day of fishing by getting bent out of shape. This works for me, although it is not by any means the right solution.

[rob]

I usually walk down stream of the guy and start fishing my way down without saying a word. I hate it when people do that. If somebody is there first then let him fish his way down through it.

[SAUKit2em]

It all boils down to psychology. Crazy, I know, that we should have to think about having to analyze individuals while we're supposed to be relaxing on the river. What I'm getting at is the fact that there are people that will low hole you, step in your spot while you have your back turned, anchor up on top of the fish your casting to, etc., etc.. First you should take the "this guy must be clueless" approach by tactfully telling the moron that he has done something that is taboo. If he acknowledges that he did something that was not within the boundaries of good etiquette, then he will most likely respect your wishes and move out of your spot. I can't remember how many times as a teenager that I did something because I was clueless, but by no means malicious. Old timers used to say "hey you dumb kid, I was fishing right there, go upstream or something!". I would apologize and move on because it was not intentional.

The other extreme is the guy that is fully aware of your space and doesn't care. You will ask tactfully and get a #@%$ you as a response. These are the kind of people that either get an ass beating or dish one out as you fight for your spot!

Always take a nice approach and if it doesn't work, then ask yourself if the hole is really worth fighting over. If it is, then Sauk it to 'em!!! If not, move on. Please don't think that I'm some kind of a pansy, I'm as tough as nails, been there, done that, not worth it.

Fight fish not each other.

[Luvtofish]

I have been crowded out of a bank spot quite a few times. I usually am fishing with one or both of my teenagers as well. I choose to move on almost always. I need to be a good example to my boys so when they are adults they won't be the kind of guys that we are talking about, and will respect others. I have felt rage at times at comments made and people pushing in to fish just a few feet from us. There is usually many other spots to choose from on a river or lake, maybe not my "favorite spot" but one that is fishable. I even had a guy trolling a lake say to me when caught my line when just about 30 feet from bank say " gee I didn't think you were out that far, you cast preety good for girl".

[fishhead5]

Why is it the jerks win out. Why do we have to give up our spot and way of fishing and move on. WE make the effort to get there early to get the spot we want, then some jerk comes in and spoils it. I had a post eariler in the year about getting in some jerks face about screwing it up for everyone else. Got the same answers you guys got. Its not your river we can do what we want. I for one am tired of always having give up fishing for the jerks on the river. If no one educates them how else will they learn?

[OR Coast Range]

fishead5,

Guys like this aren't going to ever learn. In fact they are probably just waiting for you to make you move so they've got an excuse to fight back! The only peacefull soluction is to walk away because they aren't going to listen to you.

But sometimes its fun to apply the non-peacefull approach (talk to hey_yall to learn all the cheaps shots!)

[Hammer Bob]

In my experience talking to the "intruder" does little good...they know what they are doing. What I have started doing if I don't want to leave an area is to just begin fishing my way down or up until I am about 3-4 feet from the "intruder". If he (never had a she be an intruder) says anything I just wish him a good day and tell him that this will make conversation easier so we don't have to yell at each other. They usually move out of the area pretty quickly. Of course this does take away from your fishing time so unless you want to risk ruining your day moving is often the only answer!

[This message has been edited by Hammer Bob (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Phish_on]

This is an interesting topic. My experience is that there are different cultural requirements in each location, and you sort of need to know how much space you have to give someone. For example, if I am fishing off the bank on the Clackamas in Gladstone I kind of have to expect that everyone and his brother's dog is going to be there, and I pretty much have the rights to the one rock I am standing on - but it is expected that everyone will pay attention to the "rhythm" of the people on either side and make an effort to cast in turn so as not to become entangled.

On the other hand, if I am fly-fishing on the _____ and I've walked a mile into the middle of nowhere, each hole belongs to the person who is there and folks tend to move around quite a bit and it is UNTHINKABLE to even approach where someone is fishing.

If you know the culture, you occasionally have to educate someone who doesn't. If you don't know the culture, you should be open to learning it. Then there are those who will wade right into the water you are casting to. What the #$&% is up with those guys anyway??

Depending on the situation I would either move on immediately or say "hey, you're standing right where I am going to cast - what's up with that?" or "hey, it's a big river, what inspired you to fish right next to me?" -- fishing is a social event for some folks I guess, I'd rather not have to see or talk to anybody (but I try to be friendly when it happens ) so you can count on me to always give other folks plenty of room.

I avoid competitive fishing. There are very few things I would be willing to engage in a physical confrontation for, a fishing hole is not even close.

*** One particularly sunny weekend day I was fishing on the Wilson with a few hundred other people. Someone actually said to me "this is my brother's dog." ***

[fishbait]

I'm as competative as the next guy, but I think I have seen pretty much everything with regards to rude/stuped/ignorant behaviour on the river. I no longer have harsh words or try to get physical, usually I just ignore it when people crowd me. If anything, I'll make a few ill timed casts and just take them out a few times. I feel that usually it's just not worth it to get my undies in a bundle. There are always more holes and other fish to catch. This last year bobber fishing the lower trask, a sled came down and anchoredbelow us out away from the bank kinda in our drift. we were up against the bank. As we had taken fish just under his boat the day before my buddie in the kindest most friendly voice asked if he would consider moving to the bank. They han not even made their first cast yet, he also offer them to come as close to us as he wanted. HE did move to the bank, but did not stay long. A few weeks later I spoke to this guy at one of the ramps and he asked where my loud mouth friend was. It seems that you just cant win. This world is full of all differant types of people all of which have equal rights to be wherever and do whatever they so choose. I just try to catch a few fish and let the rest run off my back. To me, its just not worth the aggrivation.

[Snagly]

One happy story after so much real life frustration. The fish were stacked (I mean STACKED) in one hole a full 7 MILES from the put-in. Most of the people who wanted to hit the lower river were camping out and trying to hit the water at daybreak. Not Slick and I, though. We set our alarms before some of the boys at the bar had their lights out. It wasn't so much as a short sleep as a night time nap. Anyway, we put in and it's cold and blacker than a witch's hat. We (actually, Slick) rowed for almost two hours. It's almost sunrise and we were within 50 yards of THE spot when a jet boat comes roaring up the river. He's got four dudes with him and pulls up on the spot. Oh, were we bummed. We drift down and start jawing with the guide, whom we know. We start BSing about all the fish we saw upstream (Oh, yeah? With a flashlight maybe) and the great looking hole up river about a half mile. We did everything but beg this guy to let us at least join him on the spot. After five minutes of more BS, he says "Well, you guys look like you need a rest. This is an OK spot. We'll try up river for a bit."

I hooked up on my first three casts -- first and only time I've ever done that. Slick was only two-for-five, so he felt like a leper at the family picnic. It was a 10-fish hole by the time we upped the pick.

Of course that river was full of fish and first water, and the guide probably didn't want four anglers standing shoulder to shoulder in the boat. He wanted them on the bank spread out on the run. But I still don't know many human beings out at 5:30 a.m. who would be on a spot first and then take pity on two guys who'd rowed half the night.

Needless to say, I'm a big fan of this fellow and in subsequent years have used him quite a bit. Hard to find people like that around and I certainly want to keep them in business.

Before I went to BC for the first time, I was told on another board to "Cast and step down or else risk being stoned". That was good advice, as is an exchange of pleasantries if you show up on a long pool and someone's midway down. If you tell the fellow (not ask) that you're going to give him plenty of space and step in at the top you've got at least a 50-50 chance of opening up a dialog. (I wouldn't do this on a short run but most of these BC holes hold 3-4 anglers comfortably. If you work out the groundrules -- catch a fish, go to the top otherwise keep your place -- then everyone gets into fish or has a fair crack at them.)

Sorry to read that there are so many knuckleheads fishing these days. I was 23 once and probably would have fought over a hole . . . well, maybe not since my last fight ended up with me in surgery (punched in the face with a knife: not nice) and the other guy in court. But take it from me Hey Yall, it's no fun thinking you're in a fist fight only to discover you left your knife at home. 'nuf said.

[Centerpin]

Snagly,

If guys step in below you just force them out the tail. Move right down above them and keep casting and crowding them downstream. Eventually they will have to move upstream or run out of water. When they move upstream just walk up on the inside beside them striking a conversation about how nice this run is. When you get to the spot you wanted to fish just say good luck and step into the water downstream of him. If that doesnt work just swing the line in real tight and clear your line right under his nose.

Note: I wouldn't try this with any of the locals if you expect to be driving home.


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Support BC Steelhead Recovery... check out http://www.bcfff.bc.ca/

My Photos... http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/RallyRd/centerpin/

[buzzerbaby]

I agree, I usually either skip the hole or start above someone. a question though, this past winter a friend and I watched a guy fishing in one spot for quite a while, not wanting to pass up the lower end we asked if he didn't mind us fishing below him, he said that was fine so we moved 50 feet or so below him and asked him if we were far enough below him and he said "catch a fish", before I even unhooked my rig from my keeper my friend casted and hooked a fish as soon as his rig hit the water. we landed the fish and went downstream feeling a little guilty. should we have felt guilty or just passed this hole up until later?

[Oly30]

After reading this thread, I thought I would share a brief anecdote.

Many years ago some of my co-workers took pity on me and my utter lack of success in catching a steelhead and took me under their wing. First step, they let me borrow a quality drift rod and a casting reel.

The summers were running strong on the Skykomish and we staked out our spot well before sunrise. Right at dawn a guy comes and stands on the rock behind us and starts fishing. Well, my co-worker has a few words with the guy and things are starting to get tense between the two. Meanwhile, I'm casting away and having huge problems learning how to cast the new levelwind. Just as things are really heating up with my buddy and the stranger, I make a really aggressive cast and hook the guy in the ear. I'm thinking that I just am having more trouble casting and give the rod a good swing in frustration, and the guy starts screaming. I turn around and see my corkie, yarn and sandshrimp remains hanging from the side of the guy's head. Upon closer inspection the #1 hook had completely passed through the fleshy part of his ear. At this point my buddy is on the ground laughing and all I can manage is a meek "sorry." Well after a little stream-side surgery the guy moved on and left us alone. (And about two hours later I caught my first steelhead.)

[Nuttinbutnet]

Last Saturday we wre the first boat into the big hole below Eagle Creek. We had a takedown on a hotshot at the head of the hole. It was a quick release fish, so we pulled to the bank to drift fish this hole. We were joined by a couple of bankies and we all shared the hole and the fish. What really bothered me were the other boat coming behind us. for the most part, boats would pull all the way to the bank and pass at our feet. We thanked them for their courtesy. Two or three boats came down and would not even make an attempt to go around the hole. All it takes is a little courtesy and a small amount of rowing to keep everyone happy. The worst guy was a white aluminum driftboat with a big WILDHAWG on the side? He didn't even bother to row quickly out of the way, but was content to just drift over the hole.