Co Captain

[Pilar]

This is a situation that has come up for me from time to time. I am invited to go with an inexperienced boater and 'run' their boat for them. This seems like a good idea on first glance. Run the deck and cockpit, figure out how to fish the boat? Sure that's easy. Run the boat ... emm no.

Looking for your opinions here so bear with me.

I am much less inclined to do this than to take them on my boat. Why, you ask?

The boat operator is responsible for the people he/she takes out. I can do a better job of taking care of my crew on my boat. Especially someone with minimal experience. I know the boat I run every trip better than any other craft. And I know the condition and operation better than any other boat.

On your boat I am a passenger, not a co-captain. I do not take that responsibility and really could not being at a considerable disadvantage over the home turf.

What do you guys think? Where is the right place for the inexperienced to learn?

[Nalu]

John- I guess it depends on what you are comfortable with, and how much time you have. I would have no problem running someones boat as long as I get familiar with the craft, and it is up to my standards. Heck, that's EXACTLY what captains for hire DO.

So, what would be the best for the boat owner? You (Pilar) along, going through each step, and your personal checklist to get comfortable with their boat before you take it across the bar maybe the first day, maybe not. That would certainly be good for them!

Jump in someones boat, hit the throttle, and off across the bar for a day fishing? No thanks. Meet on a Friday afternoon (or Saturday morning), take it out in the bay, go through the safety checklist, understand how it operates, then go later? Sure. Guys would be lucky to have you aboard, but that's really a personal decision. If they would like you to show them the ropes, and you have the time, then treat the boat as it was yours, and do the same things you would do before you headed out for a day of fishing. You're not the type to take a short cut, so if that doesn't work for them, then it probably won't work for you. Yes, you are still the one at the helm, and therefore you are the responsible one.

And in my book co-captain is certainly a nice term, but there is only one Captain. There can only be one person making the decisions when things are dicey, and everyone should know who that is when the boat leaves the dock. If you're riding along as Co-captain, there better be a talk about who's in charge if things start to go south.

[StickFish]

Teach me the inexperienced, in your boat, my gas money. With me learning is by example and then performance. I can't learn to tie a knot just watching you much less cross a bar or ship home on a following sea if I don't also take a turn at the controls, to feel the boat the swell and hear in my ear and the swat on my butt for not doing EXACTLY as I'm told.

Should be an interesting read

:lurk:

[skein]

I think a newbie should go out with an experienced captain first. That way he can go over the safety talk, boat check, current conditions, predicted conditions, what to watch for, and routes in and out. The newbie can watch how a skipper uses his electronics (and the hairs on the back of his neck) and he can also learn how things can play out on the ocean, from changing conditions to a hot, or not so hot, bite.

Then he can transfer that knowledge and experience to his own boat and his own trips.

I made many trips for close-in bottom fish and salmon before I ever ventured to the Rockpile, the Ranch, and beyond. I learned a lot about my boat and my abilities before I put 'em to the real test.

That, to me, was the smart way to do it. And to my mentors -

Skein

[Woody]

Jim nailed it. I would be honored to have you on my boat John, but I really don't I'd learn much watching you run my boat. It's much more valuable to me to watch and learn from you and others running your boats. Take a little from this guy and a little from that guy and develop my own routine on my boat. At that point, some input from an experienced skipper, with me behind the wheel, would be very helpfull.

[Pilar]

Nalu ... I think you said what I was thinking. It would be a long term thing. For me to be as safe in another boat I would have to be very involved in maintenance and checking the boat out in low risk trips before the bar crossing.

I've done this a couple of times but already had a friendship with the owner of the boat and it just came out of that.

Woody .. CPR ..

Great comments.

[Chromaflage]

From a "new skipper" perspective:

First of all, as a skipper who is relatively new to the salt, my boat is my boat and regardless of who is at the helm, I am ultimately responsible for everything that happens and make the ultimate decisions. That's not to say that I won't consult the crew, first mate, co-capt., etc. and take their opinion under advisement.

That said, I have been blessed with an awesome right hand man and best friend. Boatdog has been there since the day I brought the boat home. He has literally spent hours with me on my boat in my driveway and knows the boat almost as well as I do. Because of his knowledge of my boat, navigation skills, safety concsiousness and general boating knowledge, I would consider him to be my co-capt. If something happened to me while under way, I have every confidence that he could skipper the boat for a safe return to port. He also is there to double check me and keep me accountable for operation, safety, navigation, etc.

I'm not sure that I would consider someone just stepping on the boat for a training session a co-capt. In fact, I would welcome another experienced skipper to ride along to provide additional instruction, make suggestions and offer constructive criticisims. I would not simply hand them the keys and say "show me how to run this thing."

Just my still-a-little-green-behind-the-gills .02

CrF

[fyshndad]

I have been on several boats this year due to my boat troubles (fixed now) and I must say that for the most part I was truely a co-captain
only 2 trips out that I wasn't asked to run the boat
I have operated many different sizes and styles of boats over the course of mf my life and I feel pretty confident running almost any boat
but as John and other have said there is a little discontent when running a boat for the 1st time if not familiar with all of the workings

If I have another captain onboard my boat I do not expect him/her to run my boat just because they are a captain but it is comforting to know if I got hurt at least someone would know how to get me in
So I show them how my setup works BEFORE leaving the dock and make sure they are comfortable with taking the helm

Having said that I also must say that it is nice to be able to fish and not worry (too much) about running the boat myself
It also is nice to just get a little break on the way in after a long day of fighting the wheel

[tracker]

More than the fishing, the running of the boat to and from the tuna grounds is what I am there for. That is what turns me on. Smiling bloody faces of the crew at the end of the day is one great reward. I always tell the guys at the beginning of the day that if they see me doing something that concerns them to speak up. I will take no offense and heck, I am deaf and half blind so I might be doing something that concerns me also and not know it!

[Grady252]

This subject is so hard to make a set rule.... It really depends on the experience of the person who owns the boat, and your confidence in them. It also has a great deal to do with the boat itself, size, how seaworthy etc..... I have been asked a quite a few times and have actually done it on three occasions.

I feel honored to help someone get a little more confidence and share some information that may save their life or just make their boating experience better. We were all new once, remember your first big journey to the Chicken ranch??? Or how about your first big journey to no specific GPS spot, just headed out looking for Tuna???? It's a big deal and scary until you have done it a bit.

I took a friend out this year in his own boat for his first ever Tuna trip. He has been out bottom fishing, and salmon fishing, but had never been that far offshore, so the co-captain role was simply a confidence builder with a friend.

I would always rather take someone on my boat, and teach them, but as friends we help each other out. And if the sh-t hits the fan and my life is in danger I will start making decisions regardless. It will not be panic and arguement, it will be real obvious.

[Mark Mc]

Mike said the most critical thing:

but there is only one Captain. There can only be one person making the decisions when things are dicey, and everyone should know who that is when the boat leaves the dock. If you're riding along as Co-captain, there better be a talk about who's in charge if things start to go south.

It's one thing to go along with someone who already has good seamanship skills....and help that person with some "fine tuning" skills (like making a twin screw boat go sideways)....or helping with fishing skills.

But we see this kind of post once in a while.... "Hi there all you salty dogs. I just bought this $80K boat and I would love to have someone go with me over the Columbia Bar the first time."

Just because a guy buys a nice boat, it doesn't make him a "captain", other than in his own mind.

If you go out with a boat owner who doesn't have decent seamanship skills, what ARE you going to do when you can see that you are getting into trouble? Or are about to get into trouble, unless you do XYZ? Are you just going to politely suggest that he does XYZ, or are you going to insist that he does XYZ? What if that decision has to be made within 30 seconds? That is not the time to start discussing who is in charge.

[Pilar]

Mark you nailed it. $80,000 makes you king of the bay.

There should be a test before you buy a seaworthy boat you intend to operate offshore.

[skein]

While we're on the subject, I should probably mention that I went up to Clatsop Community College and burned a week's vacation to take a week-long course on navigation. It consisted of one day in the classroom followed by three days on the Columbia. Talk about learning a lot! Wow.

Then Janis and I took a Coastal Navigation class through the CG Aux at Linn-Benton Community College. Good stuff!

And that was BEFORE I bought my boat.

I still stayed close to shore while I learned the nuances of my boat and electronics. And I still learn something every time I go out. It never gets old, and I never intend to allow myself to get complacent.

Skein

[Grady252]

OK, there's always one in the crowd and this time it is going to be me...... Devils advocate.

You are all talking as if you are the kings and you were never new. I remember not to long ago when people were talking about Pilar and his 19' boat with poly tanks for fuel capacity. Many days when he shouldn't have been out there. Now of course he may disagree.... he always came back home right??? Doesn't mean chances weren't taken. Many of you have gotten excited to go tuna fishing and didn't call it off when you should have. At least the newbie is scared enough not to take some of the chances and risk so much.

Pilar.... I am not picking on you, I hope you don't take offense; it is you who started the thread, andI have seen you out many times in your old boat. I am reading this and the feeling is that everyone seems so arrogant like they were never new, and never made stupid decisions. How many of you were tested before you bought your boats??? I have been running boats for the last 20 years and started in the ocean in 1992 down in Gold beach. I learned by the school of hard knocks, and a little friendly advice from time to time.

I have been out there in conditions I should not have been, because of my stupid confidence. When your all alone on the pond, and the parking lot is empty on your departure and return, then a lot of other smart guys called off the trip and you didn't.

OK.... done with my rant....... help a brotha out.......pass on boating info.... let new people benew.... and quit being so critical. We all learn to walk,bike, drive, boat, and go in the ocean some time.

[id. painter]

My co capt. is my 14 year old son.

He has been learning to take the helm since he was 2.

Every now and again I suprise him with a duty that I normally preform.
" Here , You get to drive back to newport and take it across the bar. "

Every now and again Ill let him be Capt. for the day .
He chooses where we will fish what we will use and when we stop.Drives the boat , runs the radar, VHF and GPS .
I involve him in decisions about conditions.
"Is this getting too rough ",,,,,, "how about now"

I stand by and watch the decisions ,,, for the most part he does very well.
But every once in a while I see him make decisions ,I would not judge as
prudent.

Thats when I step in and inform him of why I would have made a different choice.

I do trust that he could get us home if thing went bad and I couldnt contribute .

My son is a tecno wizard and he helps me with eletronic function often.

He will be a fine capt. someday .... and actually makes a pretty darn good co -capt.
id. p.

id. p.

[Chromaflage]

idP and son! -

My 17 year old is also learning. I really wish that I had gotten a salty boat way before this year. He is really developing a passion for boating and seamanship. I can't wait to get him out again. He'll make a fine co-co-capt. one day.

CrF

[fyshndad]

Originally Posted by Grady252

I am reading this and the feeling is that everyone seems so arrogant like they were never new, and never made stupid decisions. How many of you were tested before you bought your boats??? I have been running boats for the last 20 years and started in the ocean in 1992 down in Gold beach. I learned by the school of hard knocks, and a little friendly advice from time to time.

I have been out there in conditions I should not have been, because of my stupid confidence. When your all alone on the pond, and the parking lot is empty on your departure and return, then a lot of other smart guys called off the trip and you didn't.

.

I will admit to being in the same school
I have made many poor decissions, I have been out 47 miles and not heed the windwall coming from the north and making a 7 hour journey to get back in

I have had a crewman switch my gas tank to one that was empty and ended up on the rocks at Depoe bay (thank God it was a calm day and no real damage occured)
And I have been out 50 plus miles all alone and came in with no fish and a sense that I took too big of a risk after not seeing another boat all day

In the end all these things contribute to my experience
Haveing made a few mistakes and surviving them I learned not to be so cocky

But with the help and kindness of the DOGS I no longer have to rely on my own experience, I have you all to ask questions of and draw from your experiences as well

Thanks DOGS!!!!

[Pilar]

Hey no offense taken. Looking back on the stuff I did on the other boat it was not always pretty. They call it monday morning quarterback.

I am not worried about the 99% who know enough to be cautious. There are many awesome examples of this principle that are key members of this community. I won't single anyone out but I have a few in mind. Go about it like they did and you will not go wrong.

You are making some good points here. But how about a little perspective. 'Puffin' and I have discussed this many times. And it goes like this.

Jon made many near shore trips in a panga and other boats over a period of 15 years before ever trying the 30 miles out stuff. He had some experience in other words. You get experience by making trips in your boat and others.

My curve was alot steeper. Started 30 years or more ago riding boats. Just riding and fishing, sometimes driving. Charters, friends .. whenever and however I could get out. I was bit and bit hard. It all counts as experience. I leaned heavily on my friends experience when I tried ocean fishing on our coast. But even so I made many bar crossings here in Oregon and near shore salmon and bottom fish trips before I ever went over the horizon. I ran rivers and fished the poison water. Jon convinced me that I had a boat and enough experience to try the more challenging things.

Until that happened I never even considered it. We had no Ifish, no internet, no cell phones. Often we were the only boats around. No one answered hails on the radio. Does this make me better than anyone else? Would I do that now? Hell no!!!

Now it's different. Alot of people are boating. And reading ifish. And seeing the posts about halibut and TUNA! and whatever. We make it look easy. There are tools now that were science fiction not too many years ago. Some people are inexperienced enough to believe that they can go from zero to 50 miles offshore in a few months. And it scares the hell out of me and a few others to realize that this is happening.

All I can do is share what I do offshore. And give that first ride to the curious. Maybe they'll fall in love with the salt chuck like so many I know have done. Maybe they'll realize that there is more to this than buying a boat.

Whenever possible I do this introduction. And I try to answer questions if anyone asks me. I am not an expert and will never pretend that I am not learning everytime I launch my boat and go out to sea.

I have watched many make these first steps. Some are utterly clueless and some of those guys are not on this website anymore. Most are humbled by the sea and treat it with respect. I made many mistakes, looking back now. But that is my way. I learn by doing it badly it every conceivable way. It works for me but not for everyone.

Respect and knowing your limits will keep you alive.

The test thing was probably a little harsh. Sorry.

One thing is for sure. Being a part of this community will accelerate your learning.

Co-captain in my opinion is not a place to be on a boat that is not yours unless you are willing to take some time. It is not a casual thing. "Hey ride with me so I can be all good for 50 miles offshore". Or even better "Can I follow you out?"

My response to this is always the same. 'Come ride with me, you can just be a fisherman for the day, learn without having any distractions'.
And most that take that ride realize that there is more to offshore boating than they knew. And maybe that will let them survive the first few years on the journey while they get some experience.

[Grady252]

Good discussion, and I agree with your basic statements about gaining experience. I was just reading and felt the tone towards new boaters was a little harsh, like the knowledgeable salty dogs were top dog......

The advances in electronics and mapping has certainly made it a lot easier, but there is no replacement for experience. We do make it look and sound easy, because to us it is.

Pilar, thanks for the good discussion thread and not taking it personal!!

[El Shaddai]

Interesting thread...typically I keep my opinion to myself...the points are valid...we have all made mistakes and we all need to keep learning...reminding people about safety may seem arrogant to some but the sad reality is that the majority of folks on the water (fresh and salt) are not qualified to deal with a situation if it arises...

The guys who flipped their boat Saturday were my family and friends...they were safety inspected at the dock before leaving...that sticker only means you have the minimal required gear on board...not the necessary gear, requisite skills, sound judgment and vast experience to address highly fluid and perilous situations...

I have also taken CG AUX classes...some good stuff but what I remember the most is this statement from a retired 35 year CG Vet...."it is not a matter of if something will happen it's only a question of what / when will something happen...are you ready?"

IMHO the bottom line is this...obviously, training is very important...that said, you should not be a skipper until you fully understand that the safety of your crew is your primary and ultimately your sole responsibility...that a sticker doesn't make you seaworthy...a bigger boat doesn't make you seaworthy...if you aren't ready to knock on your best friends door and tell his wife he was killed or injured in a tragic accident and take full responsibility then you aren't ready to be a skipper...

Pilar...sorry for the minor (sort of related) hijack but I am on the river every day searching for a friend and then I see this post...lots of guys read this and never respond...they need to know the truth...thanks for the vine!

[Bait O' Eggs]

If you havent been there when you shouldnt be there, you will never know when you shouldnt go


The trick is to find your limit and get home, dont go again when its beyond your limit. We all have different limits due to equipment, and experience. Find your limit and dont exceed it.

I co-captained a new salty last year. After 3 river trips trying to shake out the bugs in his boat, getting to know the boat, we made a 3 arch rocks bottom fishing trip, then moved up to halibut a bit farther offshore. Pretty accelerated for a new boater, but after that he captained on his own and we kept each other in sight for a couple trips as I was in my boat, as he spread his wings and flew on his own. Its scary for the new boater, and if it isnt, he shouldnt be doing it.

[id. painter]

Great discussion.

I made a post just a little while ago about the sea conditions I fished in this summer .I decided that would be my limit ...

I am learning ,,,
I Dont claim to be a master and am always willing to learn more.

After fishing 60 + miles out on a marginal weather day for my boat , Im adding another safty device.
PLB with built in GPS.

Rocket ware will be along as well.


I learn as Pilar stated ,,,, By doing it and many times its the wrong way first ....Woner how I made it this long ...
id. p.

[5 Salt]

Originally Posted by El Shaddai

...we have all made mistakes and we all need to keep learning...reminding people about safety may seem arrogant to some but the sad reality is that the majority of folks on the water (fresh and salt) are not qualified to deal with a situation if it arises...

IMHO the bottom line is this...obviously, training is very important...that said, you should not be a skipper until you fully understand that the safety of your crew is your primary and ultimately your sole responsibility...that a sticker doesn't make you seaworthy...a bigger boat doesn't make you seaworthy...if you aren't ready to knock on your best friends door and tell his wife he was killed or injured in a tragic accident and take full responsibility then you aren't ready to be a skipper...

That's it exactly...

Pilar and many of us are no doubt pretty qualified to run most craft with limited amount of time spend "in type". As well El Shaddia and Nalu’s discussion of experience plays a key roll on accessing once ability to jump on another's hull and perform to standard of Captain.

Wx, fuel management, loading planning, piloting, broken Nav equip procedures, broken mechanic procedures, injured crew response/procedures, quick access to all safety equipment, seamanship...all are to be mastered like that of the Emergency Procedures Checklist on a commercial airliner. If not, you are not qualified to act as captain on yours or another's craft...period.

I agree with Pilar - change one part of the safety chain/equation, i.e. different boat type, and you need to be re-certified...in effect...that you are capable of performing at 100% to all of the above skill requirements. Experience can overcome a lack of familiarity with a new hull, different Nav equipment, and other changes in the operating environment but to be at 100% in the deepest of dire emergencies you need more than a day's time in the new type/new equipment.

For me, I am still spooling up on my own hull and, I have yet to accumulate enough mileage to overcome potential pitfalls associated with someone else’s boat. I am thankful to be just smart enough to realize that point.

[Moldy45]

Originally Posted by Nalu

And in my book co-captain is certainly a nice term, but there is only one Captain. There can only be one person making the decisions when things are dicey, and everyone should know who that is when the boat leaves the dock. If you're riding along as Co-captain, there better be a talk about who's in charge if things start to go south.

This is a very so very true and I make it perfectly clear on my boat that when there comfort level is higher than mine,I will have allready been headed for the barn.The captin knows his boat and the way it will handle better than anyone.

I too have made the mistake as a young man piloting my boat out of depoe in the fog back when a compass and flasher was the best you could get. I wanted to not even go out but was convinced by a older family member that all we need to do is follow a charter,that decision was poor and could have cost our lives,musta hada

[Chrome Bumper]

The Chief Mate is the head of the deck department on a merchant vessel, second-in-command after the ship's Master (the Captain). Outside of the United States he is often referred to as First Mate, Chief Officer or "First Officer". His primary responsibilities are the vessel's cargo operations, its stability, and supervising the deck crew. He is responsible for the safety and security of the ship as well as the welfare of the crew on board as well as maintenance of the ship's hull, cargo gears, accommodations, the life saving appliances and the firefighting appliances. He also trains the crew and cadets on various aspects like safety, firefighting, search and rescue and various other contingencies.

Captain is the traditional customary title and form of address given to the person in charge of a vessel at sea regardless of military rank. On most legal documents in the merchant shipping industry, he or she is correctly referred to as the ship's Master. A nautical "captain" may be a civilian or a naval commissioned officer of any rank. See skipper (boating). As the commander of a vessel under way, a nautical captain has enormous legal powers, including the right to use deadly force to suppress piracy and mutiny.
The captain of a ship at sea is in absolute command of that vessel even if higher-ranking persons are aboard. If higher-ranking persons give orders to the nautical captain, such persons are very careful to say what they want done rather than specifying how the orders are to be carried out, because even higher rank does not give them the right to interfere in how a captain runs the ship.

skipper is a person who has command of a boat or ship. It is more or less equivalent to "captain". At sea, the skipper has absolute command over the crew. The skipper may, or may not, be the owner of the boat.
The word is derived from the Dutch word schipper; schip is Dutch for "ship". In Dutch sch- is pronounced [sx] (not [ʃ] as in German), and English-speakers rendered this as [sk].
The word "skipper" is used more than "captain" for some types of craft, for example trawlers.
In U.S. Navy slang, it is a term used in reference to the Commanding officer of any Ship, Unit, Platoon, or Detachment regardless of rank. It is generally only applied to someone who has earned the speaker's respect.

A harbour pilot guides ships through the narrow, shallow and dangerous coastal waters between a harbour and the open sea.
A highly coveted and potentially dangerous position, a pilot is a master mariner with many years of experience in the harbor that they are licensed to operate in.

Marine Engineers are the officers of a ship that operate and maintain the propulsion and other systems onboard the vessel. Marine Engineering staff also deal with the "Hotel" facilities onboard, notably the sewage, lighting, air conditioning and water systems. They deal with bulk fuel transfers, and require training in firefighting and first aid, as well as in dealing with the ship's boats and other nautical tasks- especially with cargo loading/discharging gear and safety systems, though the specific cargo discharge function remains the responsibility of deck officers and deck workers.

The term "Co-captain" corrupts the chain of command required for safe marine operations. Best have your roles straight before casting off.

[Something Good]

An interesting question I haven't really thought about before. I'm afraid I would decline unless it were someone that I knew or came highly recommended by someone I trusted.

The situation has only come up once for me and was sprung on me at the dock upon arrival but it was in my recently sold boat which I was familiar with and confident in it's condition. The new owner held a captain's licence but was not completely familiar with the Tillamook bar so I felt I was in good hands with the co captain as well.

[Pilar]

The word captain or skipper is a misnomer for most of us. The responsibility is there as illuminated by El Shaddai. But for the most part trailer sailors have not been formally trained or tested and have not in any way earned the title 'Captain'.

That title which only a few of us actually have is something you have to earn. Guys like Nalu, Cap't Kujo and Mike Stowe among others for example.

To get a 6 pack license, you need 360 (8) hour days of operating experience, 90 of which must be logged in the last three years. There are tests to pass and training in first aid, cpr and other topics.

Add up your days last year and see if you even got 30 (8) hour days.

A pretty big hump when you think about it like that.

Having said all that ... it is pretty clear on a small boat who is shouldering the responsibility for the safety of all on board or it should be in any case.

Keep talking about this guys and gals .. we are all learning here.


One more thought. A warm body behind the wheel will do in most situations. But when it all goes to hell it goes quickly. Experience will keep the guy driving the boat calm and making clear headed decisions. A lack of experience will lead to panic which leads to bad decisions and bad outcomes.

You can't even believe how fast things can go bad. If you do this long enough you will find out.

[Popeye]

I think the best way to help someone get started is to take them out on your boat. Let them observe, give them some hands on, explain some of the altercations that you have been in (and how you reacted...good or bad), because they are both good learning tools, and lay out some scenarios that you haven't encountered, but have thought about and how you might deal with them.

That, in essence, gives you the ability to show how well you have learned your craft, and how much they need to know and learn about theirs.

Never forget!....There ARE NO EXPERTS ON THE OCEAN!

[Bob5292]

Thanks for posting those definitions Bumper. I think I am going to have this printed on a plaque and mounted to the center console of all my boats. Then I can just point at it when needed.

Quote:
Captain is the traditional customary title and form of address given to the person in charge of a vessel at sea regardless of military rank. On most legal documents in the merchant shipping industry, he or she is correctly referred to as the ship's Master. A nautical "captain" may be a civilian or a naval commissioned officer of any rank. See skipper (boating). As the commander of a vessel under way, a nautical captain has enormous legal powers, including the right to use deadly force to suppress piracy and mutiny.
The captain of a ship at sea is in absolute command of that vessel even if higher-ranking persons are aboard. If higher-ranking persons give orders to the nautical captain, such persons are very careful to say what they want done rather than specifying how the orders are to be carried out, because even higher rank does not give them the right to interfere in how a captain runs the ship.

Bob

[fishboys]

"The guys who flipped their boat Saturday were my family and friends...they were safety inspected at the dock before leaving...that sticker only means you have the minimal required gear on board...not the necessary gear, requisite skills, sound judgment and vast experience to address highly fluid and perilous situations...

if you aren't ready to knock on your best friends door and tell his wife he was killed or injured in a tragic accident and take full responsibility then you aren't ready to be a skipper"


That stuff hits home hard, Even if you are not the the Captian, Imagain having to tell the Captians wife the words we all dread. El Shaddai I feel for you Brother. I hope you and yours find peace with this situation

[Grady252]

[quote=El Shaddai;1339156]Interesting thread...typically I keep my opinion to myself...the points are valid...we have all made mistakes and we all need to keep learning...reminding people about safety may seem arrogant to some but the sad reality is that the majority of folks on the water (fresh and salt) are not qualified to deal with a situation if it arises...

El Shaddai,
I am really sorry for your loss and stress in these times. Perhaps emotions made you read something into what I was saying that was not there about the arrogance. If you read what I said, it was more about the tone of people who were seeming to be arrogant and making statements like you should have to take a test before you can buy a boat...... and a $80,000.00 boat makes you king of the bay.....etc.... I think the arrogance was the pot calling the kettle black and that is what I was referring to.....

I know many experienced captains of commercial and charter boats who watch some of the salty dogs and say it is only a matter of time until so and so kills someone. I have moored my boat and fished out of Depoe bay for about 10 years and I can't tell you how many time I have heard this type of statement.

I think safety is key #1, and I think as good stewards of safety and so called salty dogs, I would have no problem being a teacher on someones boat to help prevent tragedy. I think riding wingman with a newer boater is a great idea rather than send them out there alone.

I don't want to split hairs about the definition of captain, second mate, etc.... we are not military (anymore) We are all sportsman who should have each other's back! And if the stuff hits the fan the most knowledgable will step forward.

[PhoebusGroup]

Wow, this is a powerful thread.

While I would never burden a guest to be 'co-captain,' I do strive to entice skilled fishers to be guests on my Jeanne-Marie. I operate the boat, think out loud (as I am wont to do), and listen. And, invariably, I learn something new from others.

As others have mentioned, observing experienced captains is also an important thing to do. I crossed the CR bar for over 10 years while watching carefully and asking questions. Captains Jim Bernards and Mark Charlton were my mentors. And both deserve the moniker Captain.

When it comes to deadly scenarios, my concern is not calling on a family to tell them I lost a friend. I think the greater risk is me being disabled and either I am lost (e.g., man overboard) and the crew is saved or, worse, all are lost.

And so, as has been discussed before on other threads, I have a safety training rant before we leave the dock. I want my guests to know how to call for help. I want to avoid difficult seas and challenges such as fog or darkness. I want to keep my guests safe as possible if I were to just fall over dead.

* * *

Meanwhile, I also don't want to terrorize my guests. Can you imagine getting on an airplane and having the safety rant say, "Put on your seatbelt (think flotation on a boat) and if we lose power on takeoff, your body will be torn apart beyond recognition, but you will die quickly." Argh.

I don't have a clever ending to this post.

Over and out,

David King
The good ship Jeanne-Marie

[FASTWATER]

I have been on the water since I was 2 years old ,come from a family of commercial fishermen! I have owned and run boats from both coast and now am 50, I still end up every now and then on a boat that has new salty dog skippers fresh to tuna fishing for example and see mistakes being made that are not right but I just do what any mate would do and that is make suggestions that are neccesary to correct the problem! Would I voluntaraly go out and Captain someone elses boat to show them the ropes? No way as we are discussing right now that is just to much responsibility period! If we are out fishing and the skipper needs a break no problem it is standard procedure standing watches when I grew up and running the boat in while the captain takes a snooze but I would not leave the dock with the intention of doing the co-captain idea personnelly!!!PEACE