What would you do? Archery elk topic.

riverswild · 11-26-2006, 07:04 PM

Here is a situation that happened over the Holiday weekend and I thought it would make a great discussion for the board. It would be interesting to hear others peoples opinions on the situation as well as what they might have done. Tomorrow I will post the conclusion. I have added a Poll with a couple opinions/options just to see what people think.

Two groups of two archery hunters (Group A & Group B) are hunting the same small unit, but do not know the other group is around. Group A gets into a herd of Elk and A1 hits a small bull and A2 hits a cow. The bull runs off with a good blood trail and the cow runs off with little blood loss. Group A finds the bull and heads back to camp to get the pack boards.

Group B is glassing old cuts and sees a cow bed down across the canyon. They hike down, wade a creek, climb the other side and B1 gets above the bedded cow and starts his stalk. He shoots just over the back of the cow elk and she takes off into the reprod. He parallels the cow, gets another shot and punches it through both lungs. He watches as the cow bolts, wobbles, walks away, wobbles and finally goes down. B1 heads to the downed elk and hollers to B2 to tell him he got it. B2 tells B1 that he saw Group A coming with pack boards.

Once at the cow, B1, noticing a wound in the front shoulder, checks the other side and sure enough, a broad head is poking the hide. He cuts the hide open and pulls out half an arrow with a broad head attached. The arrow went through the front shoulder, through at least one lung and stopped short of creating an exit wound. B2 wants to hike back and get the truck. B1 wants to let Group A know about the cow, but they are a long way away. B1 decides to gut the cow with the help of B2 then they hike up find Group A. When asked what type of arrow/tip setup he is using, A1 says, not me, but I think A2 is using that type gear. When A2 confirms that is his, he says, we didn�t find blood from the cow so we followed the blood trail on the bull.

So whose cow is it? What would you have done?

Rank Amateur · 11-26-2006, 07:10 PM

Group A was not making an attempt to follow the cow, if they were actively searching for it then B should concede the cow to them, but in this case I think group B should be allowed the cow. Flip a coin?

steelhead22 · 11-26-2006, 07:15 PM

Easy. Group B gets the cow, no question. Although, I gotta hand it to B1 for wanting to find Group A and let them know, I don't think he needed to. If I was in Group A, I tell the guys who finished it that it was his cow and thanks for cleaning up our mess.

corrirod · 11-26-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhead22

Easy. Group B gets the cow, no question. Although, I gotta hand it to B1 for wanting to find Group A and let them know, I don't think he needed to. If I was in Group A, I tell the guys who finished it that it was his cow and thanks for cleaning up our mess.

Buckhuntraj · 11-26-2006, 07:21 PM

Yeah group B gets the cow definetely. He put the kill shot in the cow so its his elk. Group A obviously didn't pursue the cow hard. In that situation the Cow would go to group B without question. I've always gone with whoever finishes the animal get it and in this situation the cow obviously had enough gas to jump up after being hit and make a run. If the elk was laying there dying and you walk up and stick it then I would say its group A's Elk. But in this situation group B should get the cow.

jokester · 11-26-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelhead22

Easy. Group B gets the cow, no question. Although, I gotta hand it to B1 for wanting to find Group A and let them know, I don't think he needed to. If I was in Group A, I tell the guys who finished it that it was his cow and thanks for cleaning up our mess.

-jokester

HOGGEMIN · 11-26-2006, 07:45 PM

I would say group B gets the cow and that if group A was honestly tracking blood from her than it would go to Group A. Wich group A was not tracking the cow.

TonTo · 11-26-2006, 10:24 PM

I agree with most here B1's cow,especialy since group A already admitted they weren't following blood on the cow.
I can't help but wonder how this same scenerio would have gone if the animals were reversed with the cow leaving good blood and it would have been the bull that B1 arrow'd.

HntnFsh · 11-26-2006, 11:45 PM

I think group b gets the cow.

It just ticks me off that a hunter does not put serious effort into recovery of an obviously wounded elk.No Matter if its a cow or bull.If they stuck an animal.All efforts should be taken to recover the animal.They say they didnt go after the cow because no blood was found.Did they not see the arrow hit the target?

I think 1 of the guys should start processing the bull.The other(s) do a better search for the cow.

Am I being to presumptious of the situation here?

HntnFsh

Flying Roast Beef · 11-27-2006, 01:59 AM

[quote=HntnFsh;1336544]I think group b gets the cow.

It just ticks me off that a hunter does not put serious effort into recovery of an obviously wounded elk.No Matter if its a cow or bull.If they stuck an animal.All efforts should be taken to recover the animal.They say they didnt go after the cow because no blood was found.Did they not see the arrow hit the target?

I think 1 of the guys should start processing the bull.The other(s) do a better search for the cow.

Am I being to presumptious of the situation here?

HntnFsh[/quot

I agree 100%

Screamin Bulls · 11-27-2006, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Here is a situation that happened over the Holiday weekend and I thought it would make a great discussion for the board.

I believe someone is a poacher in your situation & killed the bull illegally!
Bull elk season ended along time ago, with archery equiptment.

Someone forget to read the synopsis ?!

And the cow would have been mine if i shot her first, if she was bedded when group b shot her then she was gunna die, she was sick from the first shot. Group b spooked the cow and the blood started pumpin again an elk can go a long ways once that happens. Group A was awaiting the blood trail 45 - hour, and in the mean time group b jumped her back up out of her death bed. If i was group a she'd be mine. Specially if my arrows in her chest!......

steelhead22 · 11-27-2006, 07:19 AM

oops

Bucolic buffalo · 11-27-2006, 07:36 AM

The cow belongs to hunter B only because the other group was not trailing the cow and were making no effort to find it. If it is the last one to shoot when an animal falls, even if it has a fatal wound by the first shooter, it is no wonder there are fewer hunters now than a few years ago. In the 'old days' the fatal shot got the animal. If I were following the cow and it was my shot first I would have been more than a bit upset if someone else claimed my animal while I waited on it to die.

oregonoutdoors · 11-27-2006, 08:32 AM

Quote:

I believe someone is a poacher in your situation & killed the bull illegally!
Bull elk season ended along time ago, with archery equiptment.

Someone forget to read the synopsis ?!

That is the first thing that I thought. Am I missing something here?

It was good that group B found and finished the job, but since group A shot it first, in the vitals, it is their animal to decide. Not following a bad blood trail immediatly is the smart thing to do. Obviously the cow would die within a couple of hours or be unable to move much after that time. Props to group B for contacting Group A and doing the right thing. If I was the cow shooter in group A I would might give them the cow.f

Washington Hunter · 11-27-2006, 08:54 AM

riverswild is in Washington, not Oregon, and late archery season here is Nov 22 to Dec 15, and many units are open for either sex. So, there is NO "poaching" involved here. BTW, I voted for the elk belonging to hunter "B." That is, only if group "A" never had any intention of following up on the trail, which is what it sounded like to me.

steelhead22 · 11-27-2006, 09:24 AM

oregonoutdoors makes a good point. Not knowing the situation prior to finishing the cow, Group B "may" not necessarily be entitled to that cow. I mean, if I was in Group A and I KNEW that I hadn't made a real clean shot on that cow, I would've given it at least a few hours or more to bed down and expire before looking for it (aside from an effort to catch the blood trail). This may have been the case and Group B would've never known that prior to finishing the cow and speaking with the other group. If I was in Group A in this situation and had shot the cow first, I would hope that the hunters in Group B would do exactly what these guys did and find us. I'd thank them for potentially shortening my track and finishing the cow and give them a quarter for the field dressing and arrow but I'd expect to be the one tagging it. Chalk it up to "bad luck" if you're in Group B and hit the trail lookin' for another one.....I think?

Bucolic buffalo · 11-27-2006, 10:39 AM

It did work out to the advantage of everyone. Fresh meat for both parties.

Washington Hunter · 11-27-2006, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucolic buffalo

It did work out to the advantage of everyone. Fresh meat for both parties.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't believe Group B was given any meat.

hawg boss · 11-27-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucolic buffalo

The cow belongs to hunter B only because the other group was not trailing the cow and were making no effort to find it. If it is the last one to shoot when an animal falls, even if it has a fatal wound by the first shooter, it is no wonder there are fewer hunters now than a few years ago. In the 'old days' the fatal shot got the animal. If I were following the cow and it was my shot first I would have been more than a bit upset if someone else claimed my animal while I waited on it to die.

He did say that group A was returning with pack boards to look for the cow. He also said that group A got a lung also.

I am confident with the info posted that the cow would have never goten up before death if no one disturbed it. It is very likely that group a would have found the cow if they were any kind of hunters???? If I was group b I would definatly tell group a that I finished their cow for them.

in 'em · 11-27-2006, 12:54 PM

yep, I agree with hawg boss. I wouldn't feel right tagging an animal that I simply "finished off". If group A had hit it in a non vital area, heck yes I'd claim it, but if group A hit a lung, it's their cow.

riverswild · 11-27-2006, 05:02 PM

Great input guys.

Sorry for not stating that they are hunting in Washington, 3pt or better bulls or cows. Group A had given up on the cow and were working on the bull.

So here is how it ended.

B1 says, (after looking over A2's gear) you have a dead cow down in that drainage and it�s gutted. By the way, can we get a ride to our truck?

Did I mention that this is the first year of archery for B1? He already killed a bear and a Deer with his bow this year and wanted an Elk real bad. As for getting any meat, at the time it was told to me B1 only got the heart as he took it with him to talk with Group A. A2 said he could have it as they don't eat heart.

burnsfactor · 11-27-2006, 05:43 PM

Man, the B guys are honest guys. If I'm the A guys I give that cow to the B guys. I can't believe they weren't looking for it. Like said above, one guy takes care of the bull and everyone else finds that cow.

riverswild · 11-28-2006, 03:17 PM

Another little update.

Apparently A1 mentioned to A2 that he should give Group B some meat, A2 hummed & hawed and said, Yea, I will get your info from you. Then Group A drove off without the info.

Myles · 11-28-2006, 04:39 PM

Because of the conflicting opinions and attitudes I would have just gutted it and kept it. Kill shot gets the animal, always! Especially if someone shoots an animal and doesn't go after it. If they came over looking for it we might discuss it but if they weren't interested enough before that then they shouldn't be out shooting animals.
Myles

glowball · 11-28-2006, 04:56 PM

I would love to buy group b a beer!!!!!!!

QH's Paw · 11-28-2006, 05:06 PM

Well, like they say, there is usually two sides(actually sometimes more) to every story. Since this is obviously "B's" side, I'd really like to hear the other version.

I personally have killed my share of animals and don't need to put a tag on someone elses animal regardless of "kill shot" legality.
"B" did the right thing and doesn't need to look back or second guess. He'll get his, and I mean that in a good way. Good on Ya "B"!

riverswild · 11-28-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QH's Paw

Well, like they say, there is usually two sides(actually sometimes more) to every story. Since this is obviously "B's" side, I'd really like to hear the other version.

I personally have killed my share of animals and don't need to put a tag on someone elses animal regardless of "kill shot" legality.
"B" did the right thing and doesn't need to look back or second guess. He'll get his, and I mean that in a good way. Good on Ya "B"!

You are right, and in this case there are probably 4-5 sides to the story. "B" feels he did the right thing with no regrets and that is what counts. "Hopefully he will get his" soon as he is still in the hills and the snow is piling up.