Herring VS Prawns for Willamette Springers?

[Fishhead]

I have tried both and have had better luck with prawns. How about your luck and how you put them up? ie...color, scent,presentaion?----Fishhead Vic

Vic, it's been a loose rule of thumb that a good medium sized herring plugcut seems to work a tiny bit better than good prawns properly cured and action trolled in the lower Willamette. Then from about the Sellwood Bridge area on up to O.C. the prawns work a little better. I sugggest you use the search feature on Prawn Curing and Rigging by RT. I cure my Marcy brand cooked whole prawns (uncured frozen quanity purchased from seafood stores) by soaking them for a couple hours in redish egg juice drained from the chem-cure process, then pad them off and keep them air sealed frozen by the dozen in small jars or zip locks. Then I hook them up a customized way with a 2" thin wire thru them lengthwise to give them a slight curve, and on double hook rigs so as to give them a roll similar to a smaller whole herring. This combo is just killer when trolling, or even backbouncing, for springers. If used with a slighter curve (almost straight) this works real well when backtrolling the currents for summer steelhead and springers in the Clack, and fall 'Nooks in the coastal rivers - when there is a run of course . If you find it using the search feature go ahead and copy/post it in this thread if you'd like. - RT

[lippee]

Depend's on where your fishin.???

[Trout,myster]

Fishhead-

Check my post a few pages ago on springer fishing. I got some good replies and they were helpful enough I printed out the whole mess. I think I have the fishing down, it's the catching I'm having problems with and after reading everyone's helpful replies, I won't launch my boat without prawns aboard. What few salmon I've caught trolling, the herring lead so far but may just be my luck and how I've been fishing them.

------------------
Troutmyster

[FishinMission]

Hey...Don't rule out "hardware", either. When I have "newbies" in my boat, especially in March...I'll set them up with a hammered brass spinner with green beads. The treble hook usually ensures the fish coming into the boat, and also insures against a missed hookset. Something else that surprised me 2 years ago, was this... I wasn't seeing any fish on my fishfinder, but knew they should be there. We started fishing about 4 feet down from the surface, and had seven hookups that day, and more on the next few days until the river closed. So remember...just because you don't see fish on your fishfinder, they still could be there, right under the surface. Try fishing shallow sometimes too! Also...I'll argue in favor of small WHOLE herring over "cut plug" anyday, as long as the whole one is baited properly. I fish the Milwaukie area almost exclusively...If you see the "Fishin' Mission" boat...say "Hi".....

[WheresMyBobber]

I don't even bother with herring on the Willamette any more. I know people who do well with herring, but for me, prawns are the way to go.

I cure my prawns almost the same as RT, but I use Pautzke's egg juice with rock salt. This gives them the nice pink color I like, as well as good scent. If you like a deeper pink or red color, you can add food coloring. (very small amounts is all it takes)

When trolling straight prawns, I use a regular two hook mooching rig with the top hook being a slider. The bottom hook goes in the belly and out through the chest, and the top hook goes in 2/3 of the way up the tail, and comes out around the base of the tail. With this setup, you can adjust the bend of the prawn by cinching up the sliding hook to get the roll you want in the current you're in. I rig them so I get a nice slow roll similar to a cut plugged herring. Sometimes I'll use a prawn spinner when trolling the deeper water in the Lake Oswego area or when anchored in a hogline.

When backbouncing or backtrolling, I use a shortened spinner wire similar to RT, inserted from the tail end through the body, but not extending past the head of the prawn. Personally I've had better luck backbouncing or backtrolling when there is very little roll to the prawn, so I only use the wire to keep the prawn straight or slightly bent. I know that other anglers prefer the prawn to have more action, but this works for me. When backtrolling with a diver, most of the time I'll use a bead and spin and glow or plastic clevis and small spinner blade above the tail of the prawn.

Again, like RT I also use prawns while backtrolling the Clack or Sandy, especially if the water is off color (I had the most violent take down I've ever seen while backtrolling a prawn for springers on the Sandy). I've even caught fall chinook while using prawns under a bobber.

[Hammer Bob]

Do any of you have any luck using the headless prawns sold in the grocery store? If so how do you rig them for backbouncing?

[WheresMyBobber]

Hammer Bob

You know, I've thought about trying those many times but haven't actually done it, in part because of the cost. My gut feeling is they would work, but you'd have to make sure they were kept fresh, or cure them somehow.

As for how to hook them up for backbouncing, it would take some experimenting, but I'd start with a single siwash, threaded completely through the meat, and fish it tail down. You could also use a spinner shaft in the prawn to get the angle and action you want. If that doesn't work or look right, you could use a mooching rig. This is in contrast to how I rig sand shrimp and whole prawns (head down) but I think without a head, tail first would make a better presentation.

You never know what will work until you try it, and sometimes using something different makes the difference.

I have used the large raw jumbo prawn tails (expensive) for floatfishing bait for tidewater chinooks with success. Try it that way both woth the shell on and then off with some pink yarn. Use it right away or you'll have to freeze or cure them. ... I haven't tried these for backbouncing yet but I'd think they should work well. ... Here is a bit of a secret that many of you won't believe, but I guarantee it's true if you know how to rig them right: trolling cured whole pink prawns with a small tail curve with the tail downstream and the head upstream, often will outfish the common head downstream rigup. You can get better action, the tail filia flutter in the current, and the head stays on much longer too. - RT

I located my posts on custom prawn curing and rigging for springers, from last spring. (slightly revised). ....

While the coastal native steelhead season is underway the Columbia & Willamette River springer seasons will be starting soon (with the coastal runs a couple months away or so). - Properly cured prawns are perhaps the most affective overall bait on the lower Willamette from the Oregon City area on down (of course if you can get the ********* to leave your eggs/shrimp alone long enough they're right in there and herring are excellant as well). That area is where red prawns are most often used. They work great in the Columbia too. However, they have a much broader affective use range than most fishermen are aware. They are excellant in both coastal tidewater and above for springers, fall chinook, and steelhead; and the tails are also great for the steelies. They are great backtrolled with a custom hookup in large rivers such as the Clackamas, Cowlitz, & Skagit (rigup to follow). - Curing: Order a large box of uncured Marcy brand frozen cooked whole prawns (available at some seafood stores or bait dealers). I cure these 2 ways, as I do sardine filets. 1st; if you have enough juice left over from curing fall chinook eggs, simply soak the frozen prawns in it for a couple hours. If you have a good redish egg cure this is absolutely the deadliest! Refreeze them in ziplocks or small jars. ... 2nd way; cure them in a brine made with a gallon of distilled water combined with 1/2 cup Pro-Glo Red (or Orange or combo) coloring powder (not cure), 1/2 cup sodium sulfite, 1 cup non-iodized salt, and 3 T. MSG. This is a little weaker brine than for eggs, because they have already been cooked in water lightly salted. Soak them for an hour to several hours. Shorter soaks with just a pinkish color is good for clear water on Willamette and Columbia tributaries and the coastal rivers. Longer soaks with a bright red color is good for the colored Willamette and Columbia; but the lighter pinks ones will work out there too. Drain & pad them with paper towells before freezing. - Guides Choice or CCB brand cured prawns are good alternatives. Try the prawns as is or try the usual array of WD40, injected bait oils, or sprinkled nitrates for variants. ....

The most common rig-up for backtrolling, backbouncing, or anchored fishing with prawns in large river currents (such as Willamette @ O.C.) is to use a prawn threader, available at tackle shops, to thread a long 20 lb., 4/0 hook/leader thru the entire prawn body head first; thus fished head downstream. This is also effective for slower water forward trolling; as are stock spinnerwire prawn rigs. However, I have a custom hookup that is more effective for most other conditions, other than backbouncing, with the head facing upstream (better action & the hood stays on)!. Buy or tie up double hook long leader rigs with a 4/0 lower hook & a 2/0 sliding upper hook tied on with dacron backing line. To rig: cut the lower half off all legs hanging under the front part of the prawn; leave all the filia (sp?) fully attached under the tail section. Take a 2" piece of thin wire or toothpick & nick a small notch on top of the head about 1/4th" back from the eyes. Then insert this wire into the first tailsection joint forward of the back fantail joint, straight forward into the prawn while holding it almost straight, very little bend and the fantail will curve downward a little. Then, with the hooks about 1 & a half to 2" apart, feed a loop of leader thru the upper hook eye; a bit challenging, so you may have to loosen the dacron a bit and retighten it. Curl the lower hook into the lower underside of the tail section. Curl the upper hookpoint right into the center of the face and out the underside near the front legs, leaving the hook eye and leader loop just barely sticking out the front of the face. After taking up the slack between hooks put the leader loop over the beak/head and very gently deslack snug it into the notch you nicked on top, to hold the head to the upper hook. This is the key for best action. You will usually have an excellant forward rolling action for trolling. To fine tune, pull the line between the 2 hooks closer for slightly more bend before looping, to slow troll in slacker currents. For more colored water use a spinner blade or 00 dodger at mid-leader as you would with herring. For backtrolling faster water with Jet Planer divers, such as on the Clackamas R. or rained raised coastal rivers, leave the hooks a bit further apart with a straighter body and just a slight curve of the back 2 tail sections. This still rolls faster in these stronger river currents but often outfishes backtolled sandshrimp! ... Prawns are also excellant variants for tidewater chinook fishing. Use either the single hook prawn threader hookup (above) or hook it folded, as they come in the package, by feeding the hook thru from the outer mid-bend, then curlhook thru the underside. It works! Also, try trolling the above custom hookup for upper T-Bay springers, as an alternative to herring or spinners. - Steve (RT)

Edit: Marty M., if you still have a copy of the drawing I asked you to make of this custom prawn hookup would you mind posting it here? Thanks much.



[This message has been edited by RT (edited 01-25-2001).]

[fishchaser]

Hey Fishin Mission

I wanted to thank you for showing us how to fish the Willamette for Silvers this last fall. You don't know who we are but we watched you fish Meldrum pretty much every day. Sometimes early. On weekdays you were there in the afternoons.

We watched what you were doing and noticeing how many fish you were hooking into. We started fishing your way (& I don't mean w/plugs either) and we hooked 10 fish this year between my partner and me and everyone we took out.
Thanks again

I found it Marty.



RT

[Ramstrong]

Good to see you cruising the old BB RT. That prawn rigging made my springer season last year. I was doing about as well as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest until you posted that bad boy. Just a little side bar, we caught more summer run's than springers last year at the sand bar using those prawns. Hey now that I've got a vaccum sealer and can process large amounts of bait, anyone want to have a prawn curing party? Get some beers, a butt load of prawns, and save some money. by pooling resources, we could try several curing recipies. Just an idea. For proof posotive that RT knows his prawns, check out my photo section on my web page. All of those summer runs and springers last year (save one) fell to the old prawns.

------------------
-Ryan
www.xprt.net/~ryandsar
ramstrong@hotmail.com

[Fishhead]

RT and the rest of you guys I have another question about the springers. Does the time of the run dictate when you use herring or prawns? I see more guys using herring early in the run and prawns in the later part. Do you guys see this too? Does location effect where you use these types of bait? Just wondering........Fishhead Vic

Vic, I used to think that herring would outfish the prawns down in the lower Willamette and Slough early or not, but not anymore. I do as well or better with the above prawn methods down low. However, early in the run in the very lower Columbia up to the Rainier stretch of the Columbia, I think that herring might outfish prawns a little bit because of the flashing smelt that are usually plentiful down there. But prawns work just fine down there too. The school of thought on the real early February Willamette fish was that herring in the lower river and sandshrimp on the few stacked up at O.C. was best. But I think that prawns in both areas and real good eggs at O.C. (when the river's flow keeps the ********* more over to the sides anyway) are as good early on. It just plain comes down to being lucky enough to get good bait, properly presented, in front of a 'biter'. Sounds pretty simple, but often it's not easy to find biters. Put in your time and do it right . - RT

[SLEDDER]

To the front page!

[Kinebra]

test

[scooby]

I was at Pike Place Market(Seafood Market)today for lunch and was looking around. They had what they called " cooked Shrimp" for about 5 bucks per pound with a 30-40 count per pound. they looked just like the prawn in RT's tech picture. The only other prawns they had were the really big tiger or jumbo prawns that are greyish in color.

My question: Is this basically the prawns you are using/referring too,are the words prawn and shrimp basically the same in the seafood markets?
I have never used prawns for bait and was thinking of picking some up.

Any help would be appreciated

scooby

Scooby, prawns and shrimp are considered different and thus identified as such in most seafood markets. The larger tiger prawn and jumbo prawns are good for using the tail section to floatfish in tidewater for Kings, but for trolling or backtrolling for springers you want the cooked 4" +/- whole prawns in the shell for curing up to fish with. In frozen boxes they come doubled over. They need to be thawed, cured, and almost straightened with a 2" wire, or prawn spinner, for trolling. Marcy brand has been the best of those in most cases. Read above on how to cure and rig them. They work great! - RT

[scooby]

Thanks RT. That is what I was thinking but the resemblence threw me.

scooby

[Ramstrong]

Bringing up to top for Lipripper.
-Ryan