waterfowl shells

[baltz526]

i used some heavy steel this weekend. the 3" 1 1/8th oz #2's 12ga load. it has a advertised muzzle velocity of 1550fps. if you got the pattern on a passing snow goose it would just shred them at 50+ yrds. but the low pellet count, compared to steel 1 1/8th oz was noticeable. i was using my 870 with fixed 30" .685 choked barrel and it was throwing a very tight pattern. with the low pellet count #2's is what i would stay with for pass shooting snowgeese and large ducks, for decoying the 4's and a lighter choke. when they get the price down below $20.00 full retail i'll buy these shells for nearly all my waterfowl hunting. they are not worth $15.00 per 25 shells over the available faster steel shells. with a retail price around $14.00 i would only buy these and just stop buying the fast steel shells for waterfowl. another thing i noticed, is the recoil was noticably stiffer than the kent fast steel 1 1/8th oz load and the shotgun barrel would heat up faster. saw a guy shooting very high speed reloads, he had a serious welt on his face from his very potent shells. i found two of his empty cases. they have scorched lightly melted exteriors. some people have no restraint, to do pressure test type loads for hunting i wonder what type of velocity his shells would cronograph 1 1/4 oz at 1800fps 1 3/8th oz at 1950fps. just scary

[Wreckless]

Thanks for the up date on heavy steel. I haven't shot it yet (I'm still chasing Deer with a "smokepole"). I was thinking of buying some for big Geese, but the pellet count thing has me rethinking.......Anyones thoughts?

About those "hot" steel loads What would the chamber pressure be on a load like that!!!!! I would think it's only a matter of time before there will be a CATASTROPHIC weapon failure, AKA explosion. I wouldn't want to be the person pulling the trigger or standing within 50 yds of that gun :shocked:

[QH's Paw]

I shot at least a case of these (heavysteel) last season. I didn't notice any real advantage for the extra bucks. What I did notice is they are not very waterproof. I had 7 "pop no kicks" just last season alone. Before that, I had only experienced one in all my hunting. My advice is only hunt bluebird days with this load.

[baltz526]

just as a piece of trivia: a 12ga remchoke full steel or lead is .690 a modified remchoke is .710 a imp cyl remchoke is .715 and remington says a fixed full .685 is ok for up to #2 steel. for bb and larger a modified choke is required. the heavy steel seemed to pattern better than steel due to the lower pellet count out of the fixed full.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by baltz526

just as a piece of trivia: a 12ga remchoke full steel or lead is .690 a modified remchoke is .710 a imp cyl remchoke is .715 and remington says a fixed full .685 is ok for up to #2 steel. for bb and larger a modified choke is required. the heavy steel seemed to pattern better than steel due to the lower pellet count out of the fixed full.

I'm thinking that it patterned "better" more due to its smaller sized pellets than a lower pellet count.

Smaller pellets are more "fluid" and flow through tighter chokes better than larger sized shot.

This has ALWAYS been the case and is true even shooting Lead shot.

Knowledgeable goose hunters using Lead BBs "back in the day" (of Lead shot) knew this and used Mod. and Imp. Mod. chokes to get "Full" choke patterns with large shot sizes.

[younggun20]

Honestly, I really don't think they are worth the extra money. I havn't shot them a whole lot, because I find it unnecessary. Rather than spending money on shells that will reach out and touch 'em, spend the time and money to learn how to get birds in your face. I shoot the cheapest shells available at the time I go to the sporting goods store, and I knock the crap out of the birds. I shoot 3" #2's and 3's for ducks, and 3"-31/2" BB's for geese, and I kill 'em dead. I have seen guys MANY times shoot 3" #2's and 3's for honkers, and pummel the birds. But these shots are taken at about 20 yards. That's just my two cents.

[billc_sbio]

Hehe 2-3 #2s in a Honker's Head or Neck at 20 yd.s are a whole lot more effective than a single BB in the Butt at 50 yd.s!:grin:

[billc_sbio]

I got a free "demo" box of Hevi-Steel #6s to try out a couple of years ago.

I tried a few of them on some Mallards and was impressed at how nicely they folded the ducks at "normal" (Steel Shot) ranges.

However I'm going to just use those for Pheasants on areas requiring Non-Toxic Shot.

I did buy some more, these in #4, but haven't used them too much yet. When I did, they were very effective. I'd like to see them make them in #5s.

They claim they have the same density as Bismuth, and comparing them that way, they then do sell for a lower price (a box of 25 for about the same price as 10 Bismuth shells) than the higher price spread.

I'm thinking Hevi-Steel #2s would be pretty effective on Geese at close-in, over Decoy ranges.

[Chesapeake]

I used a couple of boxes of hevy steel #2 last year. I couldnt tell any difference in the blind but it sure felt different at the counter.

This year I'm back to Kent #2 for ducks, BB and BBB for geese, with a few boxes of heavy shot B thrown in for stuborn geese.

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by Chesapeake

I used a couple of boxes of hevy steel #2 last year. I couldnt tell any difference in the blind but it sure felt different at the counter.

This year I'm back to Kent #2 for ducks, BB and BBB for geese, with a few boxes of heavy shot B thrown in for stuborn geese.

Yeah, I'm with you on that! (But try some H-S #4s on Ducks)

Especially after picking up cases of Kent Fasteel shells at those "blow out" sales at the end of the season!

But, for those special hunts where I just HAVE to make every shot count (and it won't be too many shots), I'll grab some Hevi-Steel to take along.

[baltz526]

i cut open a kent 1 1/8th oz #2 steel shell and a heavy steel 1 1/8th oz #2 shell. here is what i found: the kent had 138 pellets of .150" polished #2's with 38gr of a large flake powder and a patented white plastic wad. on the heavy steel i found 136 pellets 50% of the pellets measured .130" or #4's in average and 50% measured .150" in average it had 39.5 gr of a very fine flake powder and a heavy walled white plastic wad. the heavy steel should be called a duplex load, imho with 50% #4's and 50% #2's it would be a good marketing tool. it was more like comparing two types of apples with the mis-shapen heavy steel pellets compared to the polished steel from kent. the heavy steel is using a case marked the same as a estate shell

[billc_sbio]

baltz,

INTERESTING what you find there!

I knew that Hevi-SHOT has misshapen pellets (many of the larger Hevi-Shot pellets are "doubles" and look like little flying barbells).

It's amazing to me that they're able to get them to pattern nearly as well and effectively as they do...

BUT Hevi-Steel, unlike Hevi-Shot is NOT as dense as Lead and it can't count on its increased Sectional Density to overcome the "flyer" syndrome that even Lead shot experiences.

It's interesting that it has mixed size pellets, as with the Remington "Duplex" loadings of a number of years ago, they only proved effective IF the larger shot was place on TOP of the smaller shot.

The practice was that the larger, heavier, shot allowed the smaller shot to "Draft" behind it, giving the smaller pellets less air resistance to have to overcome.

[baltz526]

a benifit of duplex loads is how they pass through the choke, with less airspace between pellets, due to how the fit together, you get a more consistant pattern with less stress applied to everything. with lead shot you get less deformity in pellets also.

[Teton]

I've experimented with Heavy Steel and Hevi Shot over the past few years, but don't anymore. As Younggun writes, I focus more now on getting the birds in range for a kill shot. Now, all I buy is 3-inch #2 shot loads. The confidence that comes from consistency is worth the extra price of a denser load, I believe. I shoot an extended Briley waterfowl choke (IM), focusing on head shots (if your lead on a head shot is a little behind, no worries, you've just patterned the whole bird), which produces far more foldups, and fewer wounded sailing birds shot in the rear.

[Eric Strand]

More important than what type of load you are using is consitency in shell velocity and shooting the same loads on a consistent basis. A good choke tube will also go a long ways in your shooting and clean kills rather than cripples. I have used a Briley choke in the past but just switched to a Wad Wizard and i can't believe how dense the shot string is. Hevi Steel is a great load in my opinion.

" Shoot em with their feet down "
Eric Strand

[baltz526]

some of us accuracy challenged pass shooters, want every affordable advantage available. and the gun i have been using mainly, 12ga remington wingmaster 30" full choke was designed for pass shooting waterfowl with magnum shells. i have several shotguns to use, and if i aquire the magnum 1100 i'm trying to find, i'll be shooting these shells in a 32" remington .690 full choke barrel i have, basicly a tight improved modified, or light full choke. my main reason for these choices are to reduce cripples. using modified remchokes that measure .710" to pass shoot has caused to many cripples for me. i would rather just miss the bird completely with a very tight pattern. the .690 choke will also allow me to shoot steel bb's. sometimes when you hit the shell store in lapine, they only have bb's left on the shelf on sale

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by baltz526

sometimes when you hit the shell store in lapine, they only have bb's left on the shelf on sale

My Bi-Mart USUALLY has BBs left over!

[waterfowlin101]

If it ain't broke...no need to fix it.

Steel works fine for me.

Jon

[adobe wall]

after some late summer posts on this board about what shotshells folks were using, I was pretty surprised that the fast steel loads had such a following. I'd always shot the heaviest load of #3 or #2 steel shot I could get my hands on out of the 1100.

Switched shotguns last year and the Benelli SBE opened up a whole new shooting match. I bought a few boxes of 1 1/2 ounce high speed (1550 fps) Federal #4 steel shot thinking it would be some good medicine for teal with an open choke.

Let me tell you, those high speed loads (and lots of pellets, too) would just flatten birds at 40 yards.

I usually load one in the chamber followed by a pair of Bismuth 4's that I paid fifty cents each for this summer when one of y'all posted about the GI Joe's closeout.

regards
aw

[baltz526]

a couple more observations on the two shells i cut open, both had high quality hulls, good looking wads of completly different construction and the kent fast steels assembly was just a bit higher quality,due i think to the uniform size of the shot being matched to the exact wad volume required, creating a more uniform crimp.

[baltz526]

just could not stand it, so i got out the dial calipers and measured the heavy steel pellets, here is the actual count. 10 bb's-- 20 #1's-- 20 #2's-- 86 #4's now i know one shell will not give a very good average, but it is interesting that shells marked #2's have so few #2's in them. and the #4 sized pellets are the most uniform in size and shape. mostly round. if they can make shells with #4 sized shot only, they would be great, but with my one shell test the other sized pellets are not very uniform.

[ElkMaster78]

I shot 2 boxes last year, the only thing I noticed was more unburned powder in my face. Love my Kent's

[billc_sbio]

Originally Posted by baltz526

just could not stand it, so i got out the dial calipers and measured the heavy steel pellets, here is the actual count. 10 bb's-- 20 #1's-- 20 #2's-- 86 #4's now i know one shell will not give a very good average, but it is interesting that shells marked #2's have so few #2's in them. and the #4 sized pellets are the most uniform in size and shape. mostly round. if they can make shells with #4 sized shot only, they would be great, but with my one shell test the other sized pellets are not very uniform.

Hmm...I'll have to tear into one of my #4s and see what's in there?

I wonder IF you somehow got a box of shells that was somewhere in their transition, when they were changing from one shot size to another on their loading machines?

It's really tough to imagine quality control so POOR that they just have "any old size" pellets in there...take what you get!

I'll check on this and get back to everybody (unless somebody beats me to it) here.

[Wreckless]

I'm curious also......

For now it's Fast Steel!!!

[baltz526]

i have both the red hull #2's and the green hulls. the shell i cut was a red hull. i'll cut a green

[billc_sbio]

Mine are Green hull (Star Crimped) #4s.

My older #6s are Roll Crimped Green Hulls.

[baltz526]

the green shell had 37.5gr of the same fine flake powder, with a heavy orange plastic wad. a lot harder to remove and must be a better seal. then it had 25gr of large plastic buffer/filler and 488.5gr of pellets. the pellet count is 108 with 10 bb 45 #2's 53 #4's with a more uniform pellet. the red shell had no buffer/filler and the pellets weigh 549 gr. when you compare the two shells, they are completely different. the original red hull shells are crude compared to the new run of green shells.

[baltz526]

an 1 1/8th oz load weighs 492.19 grains. a 1 1/4oz load weighs 546.88 grains.

[billc_sbio]

I opened up one of my Hevi-Steel #4s.

What I saw didn't really give me that warm, fuzzy feeling that I like to see in premium shotshells.

I didn't weigh out the charge or count the pellets (I'd just gotten off work and was busy preparing for yesterday's hunt), but I did take a pretty good look at the contents, including measuring some of the pellets with calipers.

I had a really nice hull with great crimp, properly seated shiny primer, everything there looked fine.

There was an interesting Steel Shot style Clear/White Shotcup there that had "Pat. Pending" moulded into the base. I didn't recognize it as any Shotcup I was familiar with.

Then the SHOT. Well it was nominally #4 BUT there were other pellets in there that probably ranged from #2-1/2 to #5s!

I think the reason for this is that because most of them aren't round!

When baltz mentioned that they were "misshapen" he wasn't kidding. They're more like rough surfaced dark little eggs...some are little barbels!

I doubt this usage of multiple sizes is really intentional. I think that it's because of the shape of the shot and how they probably sort their sizes.

I'm not exactly sure what process they make this shot with but it probably comes out in several different sizes and then the shot is "graded" or segregated by size much the same way as crushed rock is...using various sizes of screens or grates that pass smaller sizes while holding back larger sizes.

Using screens to size something will often let the SMALLEST size to pass, which in the case of an egg shaped object can measure considerably larger on its longer axis.

So that's the down side.

The upside is, so far, the Hevi-Steel shells that I've used have worked VERY effectively.

(But some of those higher quality Steel Shells, selling for a lot less, are looking better and better all the time!:grin: )