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Old 10-30-2006, 07:46 PM   #1
Broknt
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Default new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

in the past we had 28 days of campng in gifford pinchot national forest. then it went to 21 days. now its 14 days and being inforced hard by the forest service. so guys becareful we asked them what the fine would be and he said what ever he felt like. it could be a simple fine or he could snd us to court for a very long time. so now here is my problem with this. the people that are familiar with this national forest knows there a abundance of most likely non legal residents that home of this area when the snow melts off and dont leave until the snow falls. they destroy the national forest leaving huge piles of trash and rubage behing when they leave they are known for poaching deer and forest grouse and even calf elk. but have yet to be caught doing. they make there camps way back off the main roads where the forest service cant catch them. they are destroying our natural resourses. the reason these folks are up there are to pick bear grass, hucleberries, mushrooms, and cut brows for christmas time. they spend all spring summer and fall up there doing these things to make a profit. i think it is wrong for people to beable to go up and destroy a beautiful natural place like this to benefit in wages. now for the hunters we a getting dinged for there lack of respect for our natural resources. in the area i hunt i have been there for over 20 years and knoe 90 percent of the guys that hunt it. we all pick up there pickers trash and clean up there camps. plus clean up the places where we camp before setting up camp and leave the camp area in prestine shape when we leave. but yet we are theones being punished and only allowed to stay for 14 days. because of a group of people that dont respect our natural resources and never leave the forest for 3/4s of the year. the reason these people are able to stay up there for this long is because the forest service law inforcement is to scared to go in and kick them out cause these people are armed and dangerous. we have have had forest servive emplyees tell us this. they told us to becareful snooping around there camps cause when you seee 10 in camp there are 5 outside of camp that are armed and watching. now i want to know something if we ran our hunting camps like that we would have been delt with a long long time ago yet these folks are allowed to continue on destroying our natural resources. we are in the process of finding a way to remove these folks from our national forests and clean the forest up to the wat it use to be 15 years ago. also we are trying to establish a permit system for hunters to purchase. part of the permit system would be inspection of the camps to make sure they are left clean when the hunters leave. also you would have to set the amount of days you are there and if there past that without purchasing another permit you would get fined. so to all you that use this national forest let me know what you think of this and if you would like join us in the fight to clean up the gifford pinchot national forest.



thad tyler

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Old 10-30-2006, 08:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

14 days is what the normal maximum time allowed has been in most areas for years. we have no drawing seasons for big game rifle hunts over 12 days in most areas.
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Old 10-30-2006, 08:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

actually baltz the law enforcement gentlemen for the forest service said to us that mounthood national forest and gifford pinchot where the only ones that he knows of that have a 14 day stay time. also in washington counting hour 3 week deer season and 9 day elk season we have to the chance to hunt one area for 30 days straight. i know oregon doesnt haveseasons set like that. but we do.


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Old 10-30-2006, 09:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

the law enforcement person was wrong, in effect. most national forest nation wide and blm lands are all 14 days. some more popular areas are 7 days. here in oregon we can hunt 5 weeks for deer and elk in the cascade general season, add bear season and we are into 5 months.if you want to check my facts, here is a link. http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/map/...t.shtml#Oregon
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Old 10-30-2006, 11:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

I'm no english major, as I barely passed that when got my BS degree at OSU due to my grammar and punctuation requirements (?). But you should work on yours! I got your point, but that's because I'm as daft as you are, even after college. My point is, that it so hard to read your post, it is hard to understand your point.
I get it, sort of, but you don't have to say so much.

Heres' my take on what you said.

You like camping there.
Scumbags camp there too and mess the place up, and you get dinged for their mess. And you're upset.

You can do something better that whine about it here. Sorry, that's harsh, but true. Talk to the folks responsible for the management of the area. Demand some better management, or say you will go higher up to complain. Trust me, the branches get smaller the higher up you go! Get it? You will fall back on one who will get the job done....I hope.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

i think the reduction in days allowed to camp, is just a tool that is being used to reduce the legal barriors for law enforcement, to evict these illegal camps. a good thing, in the big picture. this same tactic has been successful for years in high use public land areas.
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:11 AM   #7
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

Its been so long since I posted, 2004 I think it said, but I just wanted to thank Thad for sharing his concerns. I hope you follow up on them so that those of us who use our resources properly will continue to be able to do so.

By the way, I was able to follow you written thoughts fine. I guess they don't teach reading comprehension or manners at OSU.

Mike Senatra
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Old 10-31-2006, 05:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

I think you meant "than" instead of "that" Mr. Snakebite.
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Old 10-31-2006, 07:19 AM   #9
bajadan2000
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

Since I spend a lot of time up in the Gifford Pinchot NF I share your concerns.

Biggest issue I have in my area is the gargage everywhere. There is a lot household garbage thrown over road banks. Way to much garbage is left by the bear grass cutters and they are reaching further and further into the back country leaving their mark. Howerver, from the location of some of the garpage it is clear some hunters are not very neat after eating. I pack out as much as I can every trip, however, it looks like we are losing this battle so far.

The stay limit has been 14 days for as long as I can remember. They have been cutting the hunters slack on the 14 day limit. Some hunters are building permanent structures and this is against NF reg. So even a few hunters have broken the rules, mainly on the north end of the NF.

Not sure about this idea of a permit system for hunters. My first reaction is noway, however, will keep an open mind and listen to what you have to say..

For now, as hunters, policing ourselves and presenting the best image possible to the folks running the GPNF is in our best interest.
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

ok here ill put it simpler for mister snake bite.



1. there are people up in the gifford pinchot national forest that are using commercial permits to **** our forest of all there products hauling out van load after van load of bear grass mushrooms huckle berries and fir brows.


2. these people that are doing this are trashing our national forest. poaching the wildlife and dstroying its natural beauty.

3. these people do not understand english or do they want to. they dont care about anything about the national forest except what they are picking at that time to make a dollar.


3. these people are so out of control that the law enforcement for the forest service wont go into there camp to remove them or give them a ticket for the laws they are breaking.

4. people that care for the national forest and wildlife that live in it are taking a hit for there behavior. these people that are taken a hit witch i knowof about 75 of that go up sveral times out of the year and pick up the trash that the pickers are leaving and fixing stuff that they have destroyed. including my family and me.

5. our tax dollars go to maintain these national forests and make sure they are there for future generations to come. with these people that areup there destroying it, it is wasting our money to keep this place nice andbeautiful for years to come.

6. yes there are hunters that are out there that destroy our forest just the same. i feel that these people are not hunters or conservationist there are just as rude and foul as the pickers and should not be allowed to use this natural resource. also they should not hold the title as hunters.

6. i am not on here whining and complaining i am doing something about it. talking to the forest service about what could be done. how we can do it and when we can do it. i made this post to bring to light the problem we have in our national forest.


7. i am also working on making so that people that care about thenational forest and enjoy the sport of hunting would be allowed to keep up the tradition of hunting in these national forest for generations to come. by making a permit system that would make it possible. when a outfitter uses these national forest. they are allowed to be in there a minth before achery season. being august first and dont leave until the end of muzzle loaderin the middle of november. while they are there the forest servicestops and makes sure they are running a clean well maintained camp. if they dont have a clean well maintained camo or it isnt clean and looking like it did when they entered the camp they are handed a fine and asked to leave. this would be included into the permit system for hunters. to make sure the ones that make and leave a mess pay for there actions and possibly not allowed to take part in the permit system again.

8. i care about our natural resources. i dont take them for granted.


my family has been hunting this area for over 20 years. we work hard hunting as manyof you do. but we also work hard to maintain our national forest. we camp in the falls creek area nad have camped there for ever. we set up our camp for deer and it stays till the end of elk. when we leave you canttell that we were ever there. the same goes for over 20 other camps there. our camp always has somone in it. we have several retired folks and my disabled dad that hunt the entire season there. when the end of elk season arrives we pull camp and leave. this is our time to use our national forest. we dont do much camping in the summer up there mainly day trips to see what has changed and to pick up after the people that dont care about our national forest. there is something we have to do to make sure that these nation forests are there for our future generations. if we dont clean it up and keep it clean by time our children our grandchildren are able to share it with there families. it will be all closed down for human activity. so instead of being jerks and ignorant people on a online website be helpful. if youcantbe helpful dont post. i know my grammer is something that needs work. what can i say thats why i am a fishing guide. but in my heart i know what im saying and i know whats right and what isnt. oh and mistersnake bite maybe you should have gone to wsu they have a great program and you wouldnt have come out of there with such a big chip on your shoulder. thanks to all that are giving good ideas and being constructive.



thad
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

baltz you bring up a good point about the limited days and using them to remove these illegal camps. but it is not working. all it is doing is pushing them deeper into the brush where they can hide from the law enforcement. they need to go in and remove them there selves. these people leave there camp at daylight and dont come back to it until after dark. i know this cause i see them driving past our hunting camp early in the am and late in the pm. they have found ways to hide. thus making so the limited day stay doesnt work. plus the law enforcement is to scared to go in. the law enforcement for mount hood and gifford pinchot national forest is 2 guys and they wont stick there neck out to go in and remove these folks. so something else has to be done.



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Old 10-31-2006, 10:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

i too hate what the mushroom pickers and others are allowed to do to our forests and game. here they are restricted to group camp sites, but the destruction of all access points and continous harasement of big game for months, when they should be storing energy to get through the winter. the mushroom pickers have ruined some of my favorite elk hunting areas. the usfs is to blame for this. selling mushroom permits in critical game habitat.
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Old 11-01-2006, 01:37 AM   #13
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

baltz im glad you braught the fact that they also dont let the game rest and build up there body fat for winter. they have ruined some very good hunting land. what i see up where im at is the fact that they have affected the deer population by poaching. we had a area that we hunted for along time. it was always good for 2 or 3 bucks and every time we went in there wesaw deer lots of doesbut still deer. after several years of them going and picking bear grass in there and camping on the out skirts of this area.. you can spend days in there without seeing a deer. they have done this to several areas around where we hunt. luckily some of our other good hunting spots are to sttep for them to go in and destroy and chase the game out of or poach them. what do you think about a patition to have hunters and other folks to sign and take to the forest service. the patition would ask for the removal of them from august first to when the snow melts. letting them have the spring and summer to do there thing. but they have to be out before the elk start rutting and when the most important for them to get there body fat built up to survive winter. i would think to have them up there pushing the elk around during the rut would also cause a lack of breeding. or ami pushing to far. i dont know just a thought i had this evening that maybe they could be hurting the elk as far as breeeding and producing calves. let alone them taking a good food source bear grass away from the elk. i know they eat them ive seen it. just some thoughts i have had tonight.



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Old 11-01-2006, 06:00 AM   #14
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

the usfs was set up to regulate the commercial and public use of our national forests, same with the blm. they are required to sell the products the forests produce. since they can not sell timber, reliably. due to legal action from tree huggers, they sell everything else. if you want to stop the sale of commercial permits for mushrooms, boughs, or bear grass you will need to hire a flock of attorneys, with a herd of biologists, silvaculturalists, forest specialists to put out piles of enviromental statements backing your point of view. got about ten million bucks to get started and all the time in the world to spend flying back and fourth between your home and your paid washington lobiests offices in dc. i hate to depress you, but to get anything of substance done, this is what it takes in todays political world. you can have every western senator behind your idea, and get a bill on the floor of the senate and still lose. the majority of states are private property states, they have no national forest/blm of any size, so the other senators would just as soon sell it all and spend the money on pet projects in their states.
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:23 AM   #15
bajadan2000
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

I have had my camps inspected more than once by the Federal Law Enforcemnt officer in charge of the GPNF.

In 2005, I asked him for his card. We had activity in our area by a rough group that looked like they were packing in a meth lab, 4 miles from the road. This activity occcured over the July 4th weekend. (never saw them in hunting season).

The Federal Law Enforcemnt officers name was Alfons M. Knorr. tel. 360-449-7842. vehicle 360-749-1084, cell 360-751-2947, fax 360-449-7801.

I have come to know Mr. Knorr as a go "by the book", "hard nosed", yet "fair person". I did not get the impression that he would be affraid of anyone or group, not even meth. heads. His main focus is to put a stop to 1) permanent structures/camps 2) atvs used in non authorized areas.

I did not see Mr. Knorr this year. If he has retired , or can not be reached, contact the GPNF @ 360-896-3473 or 360-891-5070.
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

well the law enforcement that we deal with is not mr knorr. this gentlemens first name is dan and i would have to call and ask my folks what his last name is cause they know it. we told him 2 weeks ago about a pickers camp that has been in the same spot for a full year they just left it over the winter andcame back to it when the snow melted. he has no thought about going in and doing something about these folks. this is the law enforcement officer i am talking about he works thesothern end of gifford pinchot. baltz i am not trying to totally remove these folks from the woods. i just think that there time in the woods needs tobe shortened. they live in these camps four 8 months out of the year.



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Old 11-01-2006, 07:11 PM   #17
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

the usfs district superviser, is the top of the food chain. shake his/her tree, maybe a little law enforcement will fall out. write a letter to the editor in the paper the town the forest headquarters is based in. challenge the usfs in a public forum you might get something started
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Old 11-01-2006, 08:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

baltz that what we are trying to do. the bad thing is the town that the headquarters is in is trout lake washington it isntmuch of a town. second every time we try to reach the lady in charge shes at lunch or in a meeting or whatever other excuse there is. we are going to stay toughon her and try to reach her and work things out. or discuss i was thinking of righting a letter to the columbian nws paper. we will see thatnks for your good advice.


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Old 11-02-2006, 05:48 AM   #19
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

Thad,

Gifford Pinchot National Forest
Supervisors Office
10600 NE 51St Circle
Vancouver Wa. 98682
360-891-5000

Dan
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

thanks dan ill give that a try i was told that i had to go to trout lake and talk to some lady my father has her name. this was from the law enforcement officer. so ill give this a try see if i can see whats going on.


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Old 11-03-2006, 02:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: new laws in gifford pinchot national forrest

I think a camping permit would be counter productive. The bear grass pickers and mushroom pickers would use it too and it would cost alot of money and man hours to actively monitor the permitee's.

I think more laws or regs isnt going to help. The bad guys are already breaking laws without legal action being taken because we have a severe lack of law enforcment personel.

Very simply we need to step up patrols and punish tot he full extent of the law.

But this takes money!

Maybe a volunteer group that could do the leg work and then call in the cops would be a way to solve the problem.
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