OR Coast Dead Zone Pub. Briefing w/ Rep. Hooley

Salty Walty · 10-04-2006, 09:36 AM

Rep. Darlene Hooley will be hosting a public briefing on the OR Coast/Hypoxic Zone. The briefing will be given by scientists from OSU and ODFW. It will be held at the Newport Public Library tomorrow 10/5 at 11:30 am at the Newport Public Library 35 NW Nye Street.

skein · 10-04-2006, 09:43 AM

Whew, not much notice. Thanks for the tip-off, but I can't make it. That's one I would have driven over for.

Skein

CATCH AND EAT · 10-04-2006, 10:40 AM

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skein · 10-04-2006, 10:54 AM

I think you're right, C&E. Election time is the only time I get seasick. It must be seasickness, right? I suddenly have this overwhelming urge to hurl.

Who are they foolin'.

Skein

Salty Walty · 10-04-2006, 10:54 AM

Skein & C&E, Blame me for the short notice. I got an email from one of her aides this weekend and spaced putting it up on here. I will put up a report after the meeting.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-04-2006, 01:31 PM

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D-tangle · 10-04-2006, 04:20 PM

Quote:

I think you're right, C&E. Election time is the only time I get seasick. It must be seasickness, right? I suddenly have this overwhelming urge to hurl.

Who are they foolin'.

Skein

You guys are missing the point: Having YOU there doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things. The fact that it happened and is on record as happening is definately the important part. She made a last hour stand and she stood bravely, sort of. Now, go out there and vote your conscience

fishinlady97140 · 10-04-2006, 05:07 PM

forget the politics...I'm wishin I could be there to hear the presentation...do they (scientists) know more than they're telling us?

I look forward to hearing about the presentation...thanks SaltyWalty!

crabbait · 10-04-2006, 05:17 PM

Let's keep the thread on topic (the meeting) since no one actually knows whether there is a political motivation.

ron m · 10-04-2006, 05:41 PM

Thanks for the info Walter. I'm hoping to make it there, should be interesting to hear what the scientists have to say.
ron m

CATCH AND EAT · 10-05-2006, 06:15 AM

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Mark Mc · 10-05-2006, 08:25 AM

Bernie, do you suppose it is possible that....your comments and

symbols actually increase the perception that....this stuff is "political?"

And when you say:

Quote:

But I am with ya, it really sickens me to the point that I just about hate to read the newspaper, watch the news or listen to radio news. It is so negative that it really affects all of us and our opinions to the point that some of us are not even thinking for ourselves any longer. WE JUST SPEW THE NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA WE CONTINUALLY LOOK UP ON THE INTERNET AND POST IT FOR ALL TO READ IN OREDER TO CHANGE PEOPLES MINDS.

it kind of contradicts yourself?

I went to a "town hall" meeting a while back regarding a proposed tax to fund woodland fire fighting...that would have been levied on about 2000 homeowners in my area. The meeting was facilitated by our state legislator. She did not happen to be an expert on wildfires near urban areas, or how this part of the budget worked. But by golly, she made a great effort to learn about it ASAP, facilitate an angry crowd, and come to some resolutions. Everyone I spoke with gave her an A+ for her effort. Nobody seemed to care if she was a D or an R, or when she was up for re-election.

Is it so hard to initially give someone the benefit of the doubt, that maybe they are actually doing something to benefit the constituents?

Subtlety · 10-05-2006, 08:38 AM

politics aside I would take advantage of your opportunity :smile:

CATCH AND EAT · 10-05-2006, 08:39 AM

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Mark Mc · 10-05-2006, 08:45 AM

Yes Bernie, IF that assumption were true. Can you demonstrate that this is true, or is it just your assumption?

I can tell you that....the science community (OSU, Hatfield, NOAA, etc) have been working frantically this summer to try and figure this (dead zone) thing out.

Can you say with any certainty that there was good summary information ready to present to the public, any sooner than this planned event?

5 Salt · 10-05-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

....I can tell you that....the science community (OSU, Hatfield, NOAA, etc) have been working frantically this summer to try and figure this (dead zone) thing out.

Can you say with any certainty that there was good summary information ready to present to the public, any sooner than this planned event?

Exactly....You can't show a house before the drywall is taped and mudded.

Maybe attend the meeting and become enlighted as to its "true" intent before you throw stones.

Salty Walty · 10-05-2006, 09:10 AM

For what it is worth. There are more than a few different opinions on what this Hypoxic Zone is. I have talked with some of these people in town personally and their opinions are as varied as our discussion on which color clone is best for Tuna. Some voices are being heard louder than others at the present time. Whether or not this is an election year or not the fact that one of our Federal Reps is asking for some info is good. Right now most of the info that has been put out in the papers has been more of the type to cause alarm than to inform and give a variety of opinions.
Gotta go get ready. I will give a summary when I get back.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-05-2006, 09:16 AM

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freespool · 10-05-2006, 09:47 AM

Bernie, that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on ifish.

I for one, appreciate your sense of humor.

salmon hugger

Mark Mc · 10-05-2006, 10:47 AM

Bernie, I appreciate the energy you put into your past involvement.

I just asked you a couple specific questions though.... again, they are:

1) Can you demonstrate that this is true, or is it just your assumption?

2)Can you say with any certainty that there was good summary information ready to present to the public, any sooner than this planned event?

CATCH AND EAT · 10-05-2006, 11:01 AM

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Mark Mc · 10-05-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

......making those assumptions of course will draw your fire once more.

Wow Bernie..... I didn't realize that this dialogue....or my questions.... had "fire" in them, once or more.

I was only attempting to have a calm, logical, rational discussion. It does not appear that this is possible. So I will sign of on this topic, and wish you a good day.

CATCH AND EAT · 10-05-2006, 01:16 PM

adios

maxjax · 10-05-2006, 01:26 PM

....not sure what just happend.

maxjax · 10-05-2006, 01:28 PM

well I went to it...I learned a few things new :grin:...the usual Sierra Club/global warming crowd was there. some kill the mill anti paper mill folk showed

...OH Ya! and some salts were there too

The over all consensus is: "We are still learning and can come to no real conclusions now." the Newport News Times tried to swing some positive news from the scientist to bring tourist back...and of course the pictures were taken with all smiles.

wishin · 10-05-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

With that I bid this post and ifish adios.

I hope that you mean that you are just bidding this thread adios! Have never met you, but I appreciate reading what you have to say on Ifish.

wishin

Salty Walty · 10-05-2006, 04:34 PM

The people at the head of the room were;
Rep. Darlene Hooley
Dr. Francis Chan, OSU
Dave Fox, ODFW
Alan Pazar, Chair of Ocean Dungeness Crab Commission

There were also some County Commissioners, OPAC mebers, City Council and other local Politicians in attendance.

There 2 presentations given. 1 by Dr. Chan and 1 by Dave Fox.
Rep. Hooley started out by thanking all in attendance and the presenters for their time. This was set up as a briefing for those interested in learning about the Hypoxic Area that has been getting National coverage and ocurring off the Coast.
Dr. Chan was the first to present. I will be putting down the items that I was able to write down as best that I can. I will try and be as accurate as possible.
This Current Study of the Hypoxic Zone (HZ) was begun in 2002 and up to and including this year. The data collection device is a "missile" that traverses the water column and measures temp, salinity, oxygen level and other data. It can record up to 8 different measurements per second. They have made numerous trips into the area to measure this phenomenon.
A few points that were highlighted;
-The HZ off the Coast is unlike the other HZs in the other parts of the US (Gulf of Mexico and East Coast) that are caused more by pollution and run off.
-The HZ off our Coast needs to be studied to determeine if this is a Coastwide problem or relegated to small areas of low oxygen water.
-There is a relation in the forming of the HZs to upwelling and water temp.
*sidenote to this; They put up a SST shot along side a chlorophyll shot and I could see the edge and where the Tuna should have been!
-Other causes and factors have not been determined yet if ever.

Here are some discoveries so far from the study;
-The HZ does not go from the surface to the bottom. Even in measured low oxygen areas there are pockets throughout of higher level oxygenated water.
-The intensity and area is not at the same and varies year to year, with upwelling, Ocean Currents and temperature as factors.
2002 being large HZ (first year of this study)
2005 being mild but small HZ area later in year (late upwelling)
2006 largest HZ that has been measured during this Study. This year also saw an unusually intense amount of upwelling. As well as cooler water for the Summer months.
-The location of the zones follows the bottom and depth curve. Hard to describe without a slide. Easiest would be to say that the HZ gets larger as the water deepens at the same rate? Sorry if this is vague.
-The Data from this Study matches NOAA Data from as far back 1950 in the fact that this type of phenomenon HZ has been documented in the past. This was illustrated by Charts with dots signifying measurement. The Chart from 1950-1997 was sparsely covered as these types of measurements were not done as often or even in the same time of year or with the same measuring device as this study. The next Chart was of the same 50-97 dots with the ones from this study overlayed. Needless to say the chart was swalowed up by all of these new readings. These were from the same time of year and repeated a few times a month through out the HZ event.
-The Area from Newport to Florence is in a lee part of the Coast. This area is partially blocked from the full force of the current by Stoewall and Heceta Banks. This can lead to less of a churning than other parts of the coast that do not have these big undersea Walls/Banks protecting them from the current.
-The severity of these HZ events can be linked to the amount of decaying matter product of a strong upwelling, water temp and weather in already low oxygen water.

His conclusion was that this seems to be a naturally occuring Event that is governed by Ocean conditions but that there could be factors that are causing this to become more prevalent or intense. There is a lot of uncertainty regarding the HZ and more study is needed.

Next was Dave Fox, ODFW MRP Shellfish Biologist
He had the video from the ORV. I want one as a FF. It even has 2 lasers 10cm apart so you can see how fish are! These were mainly shots of the reefs off Cape Perpetua. Sorry for the short explantions but it really is hard to describe with words. The Summation by Mr. Fox and perspective given by him was almost as good as the film. The shots were from 2001, 2002 and 2006 of;
Before, during and after the HZ.
There were shots of lots of fish and then ones of a barren reef with a few dead sculpin.
There was the now famous shot of the bottom littered with "dead crab". He said that most of these were determined to be molts. The film was taken at the peak of the molt. He did say that there could have been dead crab also but the lack of other dead creatures (1 small dead fish was seen) would point to mostly molts. His belief is that the fish move off the reef when they sense the low oxygen. The shots of the reef from this year showed almost no life in the area.
That was the end of the movie. Next were some of his observations of the HZ. His reasons for the occurance and its causes were pretty much the same as Dr. Chans. He also had information gathered from surveys and observations from Sportsfishermen. ODFW has found from surveying anglers that during these HZ events the abundance of fish increases on reefs not affected by the HZ. The areas that are affected by the HZ do replenish as the HZ effect lessens (the fish seem to move back). He also did not think that the abundance of crab in the Bays this year was a sign of them trying to escape the HZ. Lastly he said that in his opinion he could not infer biological impacts from measurement of low oxygen.

Last was a few remarks by Alan Pazar Commercial Crabber.
He gave some of his observations of how the HZ affected his crabbing. He did find that the crabbing was not very good this year in the area off the Alsea during the HZ. He was able to find crab closer in and up by Depoe wher the HZ was not. He was also one of the guys who pulled up pots filled with dead crabs(Quoted in paper). He said that this was strange and that it had never happened to him before. He also said that the pots were out in one of the measured HZ areas. What he also said was that he had been working that area for most of the Spring and doing well but he had not been able to get out to this particular string of pots for an unusually long time (did not say exact time). The crab in the pots close to the zone were alive but lethargic, the ones in the pots in the HZ were dead, the ones farthest North out of the HZ were feisty. He determined from this that the HZ settled in on part of his string and killed the crab. If he had been able to pull them at the regularly scheduled time they would have been alive. He moved in closer and out of the HZ and found crab in good #s. He would just like to see if this study can determine if the HZ could have any long term affects on the crab population.

There were some questions from the audience. My hands are tiring so I will post some of the Qs and As later. Rep. Hooley thanked the panel and the audience for attending. She had another obligation and left. The Panel members stayed after for another 20 minutes to answer more questions. This was very informative and a great oppurtunity to see and hear these people in person. I had some of my questions answered and some not. What I really came away with is that I wish to heck that everyone who wants to really learn about this could attend a briefing like this. The info that was given was so much better and objective than what is written and spewed out to the public by the media. (Internet forums included) Ron M got a handout with websites and FAQs from Dr. Chan. He said that he will post them when he could. Sorry for the long post. I tried to remember and take notes as best I could. Thanks to the panel members and to Rep. Hooley for setting this up.
BTW, the only elections that were talked about today were the local/Newport ones.

Jennie@ifish · 10-05-2006, 04:50 PM

This thread seems to be dividing members. That's why we don't allow partisan political comments.

This thread has caused a riff between members and I am closing it. I'm so sorry. It just hurts me to see fighting between such a close knit group of folks.

jen

black magic · 10-05-2006, 04:52 PM

Mr. Salty,
This is a truly impressive report. Thank you very much. Very informative. I'm know it took a lot of effort. I noticed that you used very few qualitative adjectives. A large number of these adjectives is usually a sure sign of a biased report. You presented just the facts. So rare these days.

Nordic Sun · 10-05-2006, 05:17 PM

Again, Thank you for your tireless efforts on our behalf.

Bob

fishinlady97140 · 10-05-2006, 06:28 PM

Salty Walty, thank you for your followup post and for being our ears and eyes at the briefing. Great information -- and it sounds like it's still a puzzle and they have no real predictions about impacts and future occurrences.

Arne K · 10-05-2006, 06:44 PM

Salty Walty - Thank you for taking the time to go to the meeting and give us a report. I'm thankful for the apparently more objective report of the situation. Until now, whenever I have heard about the "dead zone", I have recalled the images of the dead crabs (more likely molts?) littering the bottom. It might not be quite the end of the world yet?

Smoked Salmon · 10-05-2006, 07:04 PM

To echo others, thanks to all of those who tirelessly work to provide this type of information to those of us who are unable to personally attend these meetings.

Thanks Walter.

Bill

Metal Manipulator · 10-05-2006, 07:15 PM

Thanks Walt this was very informative and telling.

Mark Mc · 10-05-2006, 07:29 PM

******announcement*******

The salty dogs technical committe has just met in closed session. We have reviewed Walter's dissertaion and, through the normal scoring process, have graded his work. The result is as follows:

Subject / Content: 100%

Style: 99%

Technical writing: 97%

Passion: 101%

Extra credit for throwing in a tuna location prediction.

Overall score A+

Please approach the podium, dressed in your rubber Grunden's, to accept the award.

pnwcoast · 10-05-2006, 07:52 PM

Salty Walty is a stand-up salty dog in many ways, here's to Salty Walty

Mark Mc · 10-05-2006, 09:07 PM

Yea...he's pretty talented. Even knows how to beat a halibut to death with a downrigger weight.

fyshndad · 10-06-2006, 08:04 AM

Quote:

******announcement*******

The salty dogs technical committe has just met in closed session. We have reviewed Walter's dissertaion and, through the normal scoring process, have graded his work. The result is as follows:

Subject / Content: 100%

Style: 99%

Technical writing: 97%

Passion: 101%

Extra credit for throwing in a tuna location prediction.

Overall score A+

Please approach the podium, dressed in your rubber Grunden's, to accept the award.

What a wonderful report
very informitive and very well written

Thank You Salty Walty

garyk · 10-06-2006, 09:11 AM

Some interesting info that we haven't seen before. I'm glad we still have some resources that are able to do this basic research.

Thanks for taking the time to transcribe it and share it with all of us.

Salty Walty · 10-06-2006, 01:38 PM

I am just glad that I had the chance to attend and get share the information with those who could not attend.

Here is the article from the local paper.
http://www.newportnewstimes.com/arti...ews/news02.txt

Pilar · 10-07-2006, 04:24 PM

Nicely put MarkMc. Walt is an intellectually curious and passionate man and we thank him for his involvement and ability to share what he sees with the rest of us.

This seems to be a natural event that is now being documented in a level of detail that was unimaginable just a few years ago.

Hard to see any politics in that.