How do you know?

Jennie@ifish · 12-21-2003, 05:16 AM

Andrew and I, after a heated topic on LIG, had a long discussion about Christianity.

I failed. I'm sure I failed, and I need help.

He looked at me, honestly, and said:

But, Mom. How can you be sure? How can you not be open to other opinions? How do you know???"

I couldn't talk for a minute, as my brain searched for facts to back me up. I had none. :depressed: I wished my minister were there, or someone smart. :depressed:

I just told him what came from my heart, and what has been told to me, and I'm sure it sounded shallow.

First, I said,

"Andrew, I know, because he lives in my heart."

And then, he questioned me again... and I just said, "Andrew, I can't answer the question well. I need for you to talk to someone else."

How do you convince an open minded teenager that Christ is the only way????

I need help!

In my life, I have always dreamed of having a spititual leader for a husband but it's never happened. I have been the only spiritual leader they have, besides the minister at the church.

I am afraid that I am not sufficient.

Jen

letsfish · 12-21-2003, 10:21 AM

Been there done that.
And it is hardest with those close to us. I am not sure why.But being open and honest is the what they want and is the best we can give them.

But it is good if we feel inadequate(in answering such inquiries) only if we examine ourselves and address it. In addressing this post I have numerous times tried rewording things to say it right but it gets down to: 1)I knew there was this God 2) I knew I was imperfect before Him, we all sin, we're only fooling ourselves if we believe other wise 3)God's word tells us that the only way to please Him is through His Son- That did it for me. Realizing those three things cements it for me. His way or no way. It isn't that I'm not open to other beliefs - it's that God isn't !!
Now I would much rather follow His way than my own or some others-even if it requires more or less from me.
Okay, but how can I be sure ? Ultimately, It is Faith. But it is all supported with Scripture. Whatever we choose to beleive it is a faith thing- a decision we each make in our hearts with our minds. Yep, you are right its a heart thing but supported. Not just felt.

Jennie@ifish · 12-21-2003, 10:24 AM

He argues that same old argument about the translations of the bible being off.
And, how do we know someone else didn't write the bible?
I need some hard facts. Can you help?
J

Get Bit · 12-21-2003, 10:44 AM

If he's into reading a couple of books come to mind: "More then a Carpenter"&" A Case For Christ".Both good reads.

Get Bit · 12-21-2003, 12:32 PM

Either one be great. If I remember right "The Case For Christ" is written by a guy that was a nonbeliever that set out to prove that God and Jesus was nonsense. When he finished, there was such overwhelming evidence that God and Jesus were the real thing he accepted Christ! The Carpenter one is good also.. short easy read with some great points.

jokester · 12-21-2003, 03:36 PM

Get Bit,

That sounds like a good book. I might have to pick that one up myself. Thanks for the info...

-jokester

Jennie@ifish · 12-21-2003, 04:55 PM

I just ordered The Case For Christ on the ifish Amazon link! It's cheap, too!

Jen

Green Willie · 12-21-2003, 05:47 PM

Jen,
The great news is that he is asking you!! It sounds like God is working in his heart and he is working through the issues.

We are all not sufficient! But He is!! Whenever KJ asks tough questions tell him that they are tough questions and then answer depending on the Holy Spirit to work. Don't sell yourself short, your son respects you alot, from the sounds of it. They will never tell you that, but they will tell others.

The proof is what everyone seeks. It would be easy that way, but God designed things they way they are for some good reasons. The biggest, in my view, is faith. I thank God that I have to have faith. Faith makes me rely on Him more and more each day.

When Andrew asks you for proof, it's sharing time. Talk to him, frankly, about how God has worked through thick and thin in your life. Give him specific examples of God's miracles in your life, they're there. Ask Andrew to prove that wind exists. You can't see wind. You can see the effects of the wind, but you can't see it. God works in each of us in ways that are visible if we look. Can't see His hand, can see His handiwork!

Pray together. You'll connect at levels you have yet to reach. you'll also learn his heart, if you also pray from yours.

I think that reading other's writings can be very inspirational and helpful. You'll need, however, to be a witness first. KJ needs to see where the Christianity hits the road, so to speak.

Don't preach at him, talk with. Also, don't forget to ask him if he wants to ask Jesus into his heart. Sometimes it only takes the question. But, lean on the leading of the Holy Spirit.

God Bless you, and I'll be praying for the both of you. By the way, I was not raised in a Christian home. God called me, I saw the witness in how others lived their lives, when I was 20 I received Him. What a glorious day (actually, evening). Went and saw "Children of the Day" days afterwards. Then again, that's a whole different story.

Hang in there. Remember that we don't battle against flesh and blood.

Jetty Nut (Mike)

DAB · 12-21-2003, 05:59 PM

Jen,You will not be dtsapointed with The book The Case for Christ, but we must rember that our job is to plant the seed and do a little watering, but it is the Holy Spirits job to do the rest and then your son must acept it or not. So please do not blame your self. What can we do in the meentime is "PRAY". I will pray for your family. When I don't know the answer to someones question I don't make one up, but just say I do not know, BUT I will find out the answer and let you know what I found.
ICL DAB

[ 12-21-2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: DAB ]

Ryan Pultz · 12-21-2003, 07:38 PM

Jennie As a teen it is his nature to question everything that�s his job. As for the book a case for Christ that is an awesome book. The one biggest thing you can do is to plant the seed in Him and trust in God to make it grow. You can not force it to sprout just like a real live plant it takes time you need to make sure it is planted in Good soil (love of a family). It needs to be watered (show him Gods love). And just like all small week plant we need support. Jennie as I told you a few weeks ago you are in my prayers and so is Andrew. God is working and I trust he will give you all the answers you need. Remember God would never give you something you could not handle! God bless Jennie Andrew is lucky in having a wonderful mother who even cares and you are luck for having a Son that is even open enough to discus God with you.

rob allen · 12-21-2003, 09:44 PM

Jennie
Who am I to give advise to anyone but here it goes anyway.
The bible tells us to always be ready to give an account for the hope that is in us.
To me everything in life must revolve around Gods word. it is in the word that we find out hope. Everything we hold dear and everything we believe we believe by faith. We don't just believe in God, we believe God. We read His word and understand it as truth for our lives.

For myself I have no interest in debating or discussing God ore religious topics with anyone not willing to conceed that the bible might be true because the Bible is the ONLY!!! thing in which I place myy trust. I don't trust my feelings, my emotions, or some experience that i had once. Everything I believe I believe because God says it in His Word. In my opinion His word is the only thing valuable in religious debates. If a person, no matter how dear to me is not open to the Word I see no point in talking about it.
In other words tell him why you have hope. ( the Gospel)

The flip side of this is that we don't seek out God. He seeks us out The Bible says that even our faith is a gift from God. When God is calling him and he asks you about your faith I would think it best to answer him with the gospel and nothing else, because the gospel is what he needs to hear. Gods word never returns to Him void it accomplishes what he plans it to.
If he is unwilling to accept the bible as Gods word that is certainly his choice but if God is calling him to faith the gospel will speak to his heart and he will come to faith..
All I mean by this is don't think of it as a debate you have to win for God. All you have to do is plant the seed. Who knows maybe someone out there is waiting to water it and yet another to harvest it..
Preach the gospel and you can never go wrong..

Hmm I just reread all that and it sounded harsh which i did notintend. I am not good at sugar coating things. My main point is if God is after him God will get him. That should fill us with hope for all thoes we love who do not believe.
My point is the gospel the gospel the gospel..
also the fervant prayer of a righteous man avails much...

being justified by grace through faith is an awsome thing.

[ 12-21-2003, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: rob allen ]

djb · 12-21-2003, 11:18 PM

Pray for Andrew that God would reveal himself to him. Pray that his heart would be open to receive the gospel.
Ive listened to great Christian men like Ravi Zachariah (I think that is his name) present their case for Christ. And while these men present very strong cases for Christ in debates with scholars of other religions, I realize that I am not as well worded as these men nor will I ever be. When people press me about how I know that Jesus is the son of God, I tell them I know because God has revealed himself to me. He opened my heart to receive him. Along the way, when I have gone through trials, God has shown himself to me. He has proven to me without a shadow of a doubt that he does exist.
Dont believe that you are not sufficient because it is not YOU that does the "spiritual work" but CHRIST who lives in you.
Along time ago when I was a new Christian, I went to a friends house. I wanted to take this friend to a Christian outreach concert. This friend had his dealer with him. I was kind of annoyed that the guy was there but I invited my friend to go anyway. He grudgingly came along with his dealer in tow. Halfway through the concert my friend took off but his dealer stayed. At the end of the concert they had an alter call and I asked the guy if he would like to go up. I told him I could go up with him if he wanted to. He just looked at me and dropped his eyes to the floor. I decided not to press the issue and closed my eyes and just prayed. When I opened my eyes again I saw him running down the aisle up to the front ready to accept Jesus. Point is, I didnt have to really do a thing. I didnt have to present a case for Christ. The Holy Spirit did it all.
The Bible says that the effective fervent prayer of a rightous person availeth much. You are rightous through Christ. Pray for Andrew. I will say a prayer for him too.

Jennie@ifish · 12-21-2003, 11:34 PM

Sounds like a good Christmas Present. He really is into "finding out" and now is a good time.
Which one is best, for a 16 year old?
Jen

riverrat · 12-22-2003, 04:09 AM

Jennie,

Has Andrew read the bible, and he just doesn't get it, or are his questions just a teenagers inquisative nature? One suggestion that i would like to offer is getting a good easy to read english version of the bible, The Message by Eugene Peterson is one that I have read and is easy to understand. Have him read the new testament, starting with John.
What a great time of year to learn about Jesus Christ! May God bless your and your family, Merry Christmas to all!...rr

Grantspastor · 12-22-2003, 12:38 PM

Good answers here. Just a couple of additional thoughts.

1. The Bible does not defend itself, nor does it need to. It is alive and powerful...able to judge between the thoughts and intents of the heart. I'd encourage him to look into it himself. The Bible stands up to the closest scrutiny.

2. Don't discount or minimize your influence as his mom. Just because you ARE his mom, you have tremendous credibility. In other words the very fact that you are telling him it is real carries great weight.

3. Encourage him to pray about it openly to God. Have him tell the Lord what his concerns are. The Holy Spirit will respond and bear witness with his spirit about the reality and truthfulness.

4. If there are issues caused by other christians, well meaning or not, that have him questioning christianity, try to find out what they are and respond to them accordingly. Unfortunately we don't always represent Jesus as He really is.

David Johnson · 12-22-2003, 06:44 PM

You got my prayers Jennie.

I've been through times when I lacked in faith. I received faith by asking the Lord to give it to me.

Catchalot · 01-01-2004, 08:25 PM

Not only would I recommend your son read the, "Case for Christ", but I would recommend it for you too. It will give you answers to give your son and others who ask. Great book! There is also a book I have heard of people speak great things about. I think it is called, "The power of a praying Parent". I've heard amazing things about it. Just an idea! Don't give up, the Lord is with and for you. You can be sure that if you put your faith in Him He will see you thru this. I'll pray for you right now.

kayakfisher · 01-02-2004, 12:32 AM

All these answers are so great...and true. In the end however, your son has to find his own way, and it sounds as if he is taking the steps to do that and to become a mature adult. He will be fine, and as has been said, it is so important that he question all these things, and it is so important that he is willing to have this discussion with his parent.

Perhaps all the great religions are worshipping the same God but they don't realize it? If your son lives his life in a way that you can be proud of he has a good heart and will be fine...but all good things take time....it is a lifetime journey is it not?

M.

Private-Aye-Fish · 01-02-2004, 08:02 AM

Jennie,

The Case for faith and The Case for Christ are two books that are great for answering these questions. Lee Strobel is a great writer who can touch the heart of those searching.

He most likley fishes

I can only hope. :grin:

Phil

Private-Aye-Fish · 01-02-2004, 08:13 AM

BTW,

I read both books after I was a believer. Both empowered me to be better equipped to speak the truth in the face of doubt.

I have so much farther to go but I pray for progress.

The hardest times are those when I'm discussing this topic with my children. Of all those I want to get it these two I want to get it the most.

Sometimes I try too hard with them. Sometimes not hard enough I don't want to push them away. I just keep praying for them and keep trying to live it to the best of my ability so they can see it in action.

I'm supposed to let go and let God. But as a parent it is hard to let go.

Happy Friday.

Private-Aye-Fish · 01-02-2004, 08:21 AM

Last but not least. A parent that cares and shows she/he cares is a heck of a good start. Sounds to me like your making good progress.

Sounds to me like you made God proud with your effort.

happybrew · 01-02-2004, 08:56 PM

Jennie, nothing can replace the power of prayer. St. Monica, the mother of St. Augustine of Hippo, prayed for him for, I think it was 18 years, for him to become a Christian. When he finally did, he became a very great Christian, becoming a bishop and writing many great books in defense of the faith. We are not in a race to see who gets there first, although it would certainly be comforting to see him going where you would like him to go in his walk with God. What matters is the ending. Even if he accepts Christ and repents of his sins in the last five minutes of his life (although it would be better that it come sooner than that!), he will still be in heaven at the end of the age. So keep hope in your heart and pray unceasingly. Pray when you're cutting vegetables for dinner. Pray when you're driving down the road. When I was his age, I had a mohawk, wore combat boots, ripped jeans, and a t-shirt with a picture of a nuclear explosion on it, along with a black leather jacket with a chain; I listened to punk rock, and was occasionally stopped by the police simply based on my appearance, although I never did anything illegal. In fact I never even smoked pot, which my parents don't really believe based upon how I dressed at that age, and the music I listened to. It's disconcerting, to be sure, but he'll grow out of his doubts and discover the answers to his questions in God's time, not yours, as long as you keep praying for him, and have an answer or a place he can find an answer, when he has a question. There are lots of good books presenting the reasons for believing. Even if you don't know what he needs, if you keep praying, God will somehow give him what he needs, through someone he meets along the way.

happybrew

Mikeymoto · 01-02-2004, 09:33 PM

My son had a lot of these questions too, so my wife picked up a book to help out with some answers. I'll post the title and author later, the book is with him at his dads this weekend. I can let you know if it helps to.
Good luck and have patience it happens in Gods time.
MM

Steeliefly · 01-02-2004, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jennie@ifish:
Andrew and I, after a heated topic on LIG, had a long discussion about Christianity.

I failed. I'm sure I failed, and I need help.

He looked at me, honestly, and said:

But, Mom. How can you be sure? How can you not be open to other opinions? How do you know???"

I couldn't talk for a minute, as my brain searched for facts to back me up. I had none. :depressed: I wished my minister were there, or someone smart. :depressed:

I just told him what came from my heart, and what has been told to me, and I'm sure it sounded shallow.

First, I said,

"Andrew, I know, because he lives in my heart."

And then, he questioned me again... and I just said, "Andrew, I can't answer the question well. I need for you to talk to someone else."

How do you convince an open minded teenager that Christ is the only way????

I need help!

In my life, I have always dreamed of having a spititual leader for a husband but it's never happened. I have been the only spiritual leader they have, besides the minister at the church.

I am afraid that I am not sufficient.

Jen

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[ 01-03-2004, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Steeliefly ]

Steeliefly · 01-02-2004, 11:38 PM

Jennie: Mention this to Andrew. I flew in the Military for just over twenty years - Navy and Air Force Reserve. I was a Helicopter pilot. One time in the Navy while flying at night I moved the flight controls suddenly and without any real thought to avoid a mid-air collision with an airplane. The weird thing about this was that the airplane was overtaking my helicopter from behind at the same altitude and on the same heading! The plane missed me by 100 feet. To this day I don't know why, I'm just thankful that God was with me that night (and on many other flights). After this incident, I was actually quite calm - I knew then and there that it wasn't me in control. Andrew should know that there are no "non-believers" in military aircraft cockpits. Once you go through an experience where by all rights you should have died, but didn't - it's a wake-up call. some people have sudden revelations about God and others have a gradual awakening to him. Both ways work!