Help! Boss wants to do video gambling!

[happybrew]

I really need help with this. I'm going to schedule an appointment with a priest for guidance, but I'm really need help with this, and I would like input from this community. My boss is opening an lounge in our restaurant, which I don't like, but as I'm the manager, I can make sure that alcohol isn't being abused. I believe that alcohol in moderation is okay, but drunkenness is a sin. The kicker is, he wants to put in video gambling machines. At first, I was thinking, "okay, as long as its an entertainment, in moderation", but I was in total denial. Talking to two of the owners today, what they intend is to get as much money out of people as they can with those machines. They don't intend for it as an innocent entertaiment, but as a way of taking advantage of people's weaknesses for their own profit. It starts up in three or four weeks. I cannot support this. I would be in a state of sin if I went along with it. I have been very grateful to God for the fact that I have a job that supports my family, especially in these tough economic times. I have done well at it, and have kept the business profitable despite the fact that the community it is located in had 25% unemployment last year, and at least 10 businesses within a couple of blocks of us went out of business in the last two years.

Unfortunately, I cannot go along with this. Finding another job that would pay enough to support my family will be very tough. I mean very tough. Restaurants are not hiring within reasonable driving distance of my home. The best option would be to relocate. That would mean I'd have to leave my church, where I teach religious education, and since the owners have a history of mismanagement, and don't pay enough to attract decent managers should I leave this would leave the other people working there with the real possibility of unemployment somewhere down the line. They were close to failing when I was hired, and I left once for a month and came back, and their sales dropped considerably when I left, came back up when I returned. I have competing moral claims: The support of my family, the support of my church, the support of my co-workers, and the owners expecting me to participate in and encourage something that I find morally reprehensible. Should I find another job before I quit, or should I just quit as soon as those machines are in place? The latter choice would mean I'd lose my house, be forced into bankruptcy, be unable to support my family, and possibly end up with the same for the other people working there, and be unable to support the parish I have grown to love. In addition, my wife is attending classes to join the Catholic Church, and this would disrupt this process. I truly believe that Satan is behind this, as he puts up barriers like this whenever I am on the right path. Usually, the choice is simple, and merely requires perseverence. This time, however, the choices are hard, and require discernment that I am having trouble with right now. I'm too close to the problem to be able to make an objective decision. Right now I feel helpless. I'm not sure which obligation takes priority. Do I seek to make a break that allows me to meet my other obligations, most of them anyway, or do I make a break that does not allow me to meet my other obligations? The best thing for me right now, would be to immediately find another job that would support my family, so I don't need to make a hard choice. But the Lord may be testing me right now, and another job may not be on the horizon. I would appreciate any input into this problem I face, and I ask for your prayers and support. Thanks in advance.

happybrew

[ 11-21-2003, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: happybrew ]

[clearview2u]

Happybrew,
It stinks that your boss is putting you in this position. I think I would keep my job but start looking for another one. I will keep you in my thoughts.
toni

[CATCH AND EAT]

Happybrew your obligation to support your family is viewed first and formost. Remember Christ associated with the woman at well, Zachias, Mary Magdaline and some pretty rough characters we now know as deciples? Sure looks like a great oppertunity to witness to those folks that will frequent your establishment. You may not agree with the situation your boss puts you in but maybe God is opening another door for you.

I totally respect your convictions HB but we do not win more sinners to Christ just working amongst the Christians. We do so by witnesing to the "missing". Kind of like that term better than the "lost". "Missing" implies hope for life change and you may be in a position to help gather the "missing" for Christ. Our Associate pastor spoke on this very issue last sunday.

Ever go to Reno or Vegas. Lots of Christians work in many different capacities in casinos.

[letsfish]

C&E has some great points, and yet I also clearly see your position and frustration. You definitely have my prayers and my thoughts. My thought sbecause i know I am going to be asking myself "what would I do?".
I went to a men's retreat this fall and John Fischer,author and song writher, challenged us to not to get comfortable in the Christian subculture but get out there in the world and make a difference. But where do personal ethics come in?
One way or the other you will grow through this. Again, you do have my prayers(keep us in touch), sorry for nothing profound from my thoughts

[Grantspastor]

That's a tough situation HB. My initial thoughts are "if any man lacks wisdom, let him ask God who gives to all liberally" (Jas 1:5).

I know you are praying about it. Wait for God to communicate His wisdom to you. I always counsel people who are in situations where they don't know what to do, to pray and wait on the Lord...and to DO NOTHING radical until they hear from the Lord.

We tend to make major life decisions under the impetus of emotion (either positive or negative). They are better made after prayer, counsel, and in a sort of emotional "neutral".
God will help you.

[happybrew]

Thanks for everyone's input. To clarify, however, my position is not that I don't want to be around people committing sins. Heck, I wouldn't be able to hang out by myself even! It's that the sort of operation they envision is one that takes advantage of people's weakness for financial gain, often at severe expense to the other person. As a manager, I'd be engaging in material participation in that endeavor. I know customers who have admitted to losing huge sums and running up debts to those machines. It's not who I'd be around, it's what I would personally be an accomplice to that bothers me. I was thinking about it today, and a few things are more clear now, but I'm still not sure what I need to do.

happybrew

[SKP]

Grantspastor has it right. Pray, pray, pray. The worst decisions are made when you are in a valley, when you make snap decisions, without seeking wisdom. Seek the Lord, seek wise council first before deciding the Lord's will.

James 1:5 all the way.

SKP

[CATCH AND EAT]

It's not your choice that these folks play the machines. They are persons of freewill. Yes you are the manager and it is your duty to make sure that these machines are in complete federal and state compliance with games of chance. If you see folks or see something that leads you to believe they are getting ripped off then it is your duty to report it.

Don't make a hasty decision here. GP is right. Pray about it and then pray some more. The answer will come and it may not be what you'd expect. Good Luck HB. I'll be praying for your situation.

[yooper]

HB, I'm reminded of someone who is married to a non-believer. The book doesn't say "leave" the situation, rather it says stay and act according to God's will.

The only advice I would give to someone married to a non-believer is to first stay with it, then make sure you "up" your prayer time with God. You are now in a situation where temptation and the devil are knocking at your door. Armor yourself.

But I think the advice from GP is definately the most important. Pray, Pray, Pray... :-)

[yooper]

Forgot to add this part... Ya ain't married to the job, so if you find or "question" your association, end it. But don't make that decision to quickly. :-)

[King Fisher]

HB- There is some good words by these posts that i would agree with. Just make sure that it won't cause you to stumble. I've tried to witness to people in places I shouldn't have been. I've had issues with gambling, drugs,etc. I now know that I need to stay away from certain areas. We are all called to be a light unto the world, just don't cause youself to stumble. If you are strong in these areas, it could be a great oppertunity to allow God to work through you.

Blessings,
Rick

[straightweave]

HB- as GP says, wait for the answer from the lord before putting all of you and yours into jeapardy. The lord may ask that you counsel those w/ the sickness and show them the way. There is a network of folks who are in the community that work w/ this particular illness. They may be more than happy to have another of the lords children to help cure this ailment.

[DAB]

HB
Prayer is the answer, God opens and closes doors, pray for wisdom to know which doors God is opening. I will pray for you.
DAB

[happybrew]

Mark 8
34* And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 35* For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it.

Everybody wants a light cross, including me.

Matthew 10
34* "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man's foes will be those of his own household. 37* He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it.

Matthew 18
7 "Woe to the world for temptations to sin! * For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes!

These are the scriptures that worry me. Obviously, this is not my choice, but how much is forced upon me, and thus not my fault, and how much is my desire to avoid my own cross? That's the whole problem. I've got a lot of praying to do.

My pastor was out today, and the associate pastor hasn't returned my call yet. There are three priests in my parish for over 5000 people. If only 1% require assistance on a particular day, that's 50 people. It probably won't be until next week that I can talk to him.

happybrew

[FM2]

HB, my take is this has come down to a personal decision you need to make. God knows your heart and your motives, don't let the influences of others bring a sense of discouragement between what you believe in your heart and what you believe may happen. As Chrisitans we are continually put in circumstances that test our Faith in God and how we react to them is an illustration of a Christ like spirit. This may be an opportunity you don't yet know. You stated this job is providing for your family and is on a path to allow growth, don't ignore that! Satan is clever and devious and will dispell doubt in your mind and cause you to question what path you are on. Stand strong and firm on your foundation and please don't become a cultural Christian and fall into the space of what is PC. You seem very strong spiritually and you may already know the answer to this challenge.

YBIC, Keith

[CATCH AND EAT]

Happy Brew, this is sounding more and more like a mission field experience for you. FM2 is right on the money with his statement.

"Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". Nice little mission statement is'nt it?

Will continue to pray that you recieve some direction from the Lord.

[Joe Schwab]

Happybrew, I really think you need to reevaluate your position on gambling. I am a lifelong Catholic and attended Catholic Schools through two years of college. Never in any of the teachings did I hear gambling classed as a sin.

You are painting an awful of of good people as sinners if you do indeed believe that.

I will grant you that excess of anything is a sin. You cannot control what is in your bosses heart as to his profit motives. You can only apply your own moral standards to cases you have a direct cause and effect over. You mentioned having control over how much someone drinks. Excellent example.

If you put your family into financial jeopardy over your belief that someone else is doing wrong what have you accomplished? If you are an effective a manger as you say you are, could you not have more of a positive influence remaining in your position than ducking out and losing your means of support?

I grew up in a community where there was a family who believed that most of their income belonged to the church at the expense of their children. They then looked for handouts from others to get by. This is as wrong as wasting money in a gambling casino. I can not agree with you that gambling of itself is a sin.
Spending more time or money on anything that detracts from you ability to support and provide for others is.

I hope you can see where I am coming from, not as a defender of gambling but as a person who looks at all sides of an issue.

[happybrew]

Capt. Hook: You are both correct and incorrect that gambling is not a sin. It is not intrinsically wrong. It does become wrong, however, when it is exploitative. Are you aware that over 5% of people gambling today have a gambling problem, and they account for 40-60% of an establishment's income? I know several people coming into my restaurant who are in that category. The manner in which my boss wants to do it would specifically encourage that. It would exploit people's weaknesses for profit. This is something that is specifically condemned in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which discusses gambling under the 7th Commandment, thou shalt not steal (for you Protestants, Catholics number their commandments differently), and states in paragraph 2413 "The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement." In the next paragraph, it condemns acts which lead to the enslavement of human beings. In addition, a number of cardinals have come out against state sponsored gambling as a social institution that does increasing amounts of harm to communities and individuals. Cooperation in morally wrong actions is something that has always been considered wrong.

Don't worry, Capt. Hook, I've decided I'm not going to quit until I have another job, as my participation in gambling is entirely non-voluntary, and thus not a matter of personal culpability, however I really do need to find another job. I've worked two full time jobs to support my family before, and I can do so again if I have to.

I think you're going to see more and more bishops speaking out against casinos and state-sponsored gambling as the harm they do becomes more apparent. We are no longer in the age of church-hall bingo, friendly low-stakes poker, and annual trips to Vegas, all of which are entirely innocent, and provide valuable recreation and fellowship. We are now in the age of the State wanting a substitute for taxes, and seeking to maximize revenue. A busy bar with video gambling can NET a half-million a year off of it, after payouts and the state's cut. Retirees with a gambling problem are exhausting their savings. Fathers are not providing for their children because it's been poured into a machine. And every time the state needs money, it will seek to expand gambling to get it.

happybrew

[Silver Hilton]

Happy,

I think you should explore talking to your boss about how their position on putting in poker will require you to seek other employment. If good managers are hard to find, it may be more to their advantage to keep you than to put in poker.

That said, my friend, liquor is worse than gambling in terms of the harm it does. Consider that.

[Seefood Man]

As with anything, one has to put aside their personal feelings and take a look at problem in the big picture. If your feelings are so strong about this then consider the stability of your family first. It is them, that your first duty is to. Are you going to gamble their future for the sake of others that gamble? I don't think your that type of husband and father. Adults also have the ability to not pay and play. I don't think it's your position to protect these people from themselves, however, I do know that it's your duty to protect your family first. God does ALL things for a reason and the final outcome is entirely up to Him. And just on a side note the Catholic Church has made MILLIONS if not BILLIONS from Bingo! :whazzup: Your a good man with a good heart and God will direct you down the correct road. All my prayers to you and yours.

[DAB]

HappyBrew
You hit the nail on the head with your post about GAMBLING. I agree 100%.
DAB