Family/Hunting Dog

Early&Often · 09-22-2006, 03:11 PM

I am looking for a recommendation for a dog, family #1, hunting #2.

With a young family and moving into the country (well 3 acres anyway) I am finally looking to pick up a hunting companion for me and a dog for the kids.

I have local access to a great yellow lab I trained and have been hunting with for 3 years, she is a retrieving machine and great blind dog.

For my own dog I am looking for something that still has natural retrieving instincts and doesn't mind cold water, but a dog that is naturally more birdie when it comes to pheasant, chucker and quail than a lab.

Any recommendation out there for a great family dog with the upland / retrieving characteristics I described would be appreciated. I might be asking for the world....but what the heck.

Thanks.

duckboy · 09-22-2006, 04:09 PM

I have had good luck with a Mix of Mutt and Mongrel.

Very Low Start up cost, and good durability as far as bones and joints and foot pads.

Generally, I think a lab is hard to beat, but for some folks a younger lab can be a real hand full (especially if you have toddlers)

I am going to stay the course with crossbred beasts for birding and rabbits.

Both of my dogs are have lab and Sheperd blood in them, and I'd put either of them up against any pure bred upland bird dog on any day for grouse/quail/chuckar/pheasant, but neither of them are water loving dogs, Alex has brought me hundreds of ducks, but he is really more in tune for flushing and finding upland birds.

I say either a lab, or a lab/working dog cross.

Hawk · 09-22-2006, 04:26 PM

Depending on the bloodline, some lab pups can be pretty wired. Our 16 month old female is starting to settle down nicely, but there were a couple of times I was asking my self what I got myself into!

I half toyed with the thought of a lab/pointer cross before we decided to go with a purebred lab. I think either is acceptable, but be sure you have a good feel for what the parents were like as I think that will help take some of the guess work out of what the puppies will be like.

k9jeff · 09-22-2006, 04:54 PM

I have a GSP, great dog, but does NOT have an off switch.

rimrock · 09-22-2006, 05:22 PM

What percentage of your time are ya going to upland hunt? How many days a season? this would be helpful to know before we could give good recommendations.

cwh · 09-22-2006, 06:56 PM

There is enough variation within the Lab gene pool that you may get a couch potato or a bird freak. The Field Trial/Hunting lines are going to be much higher intensity, probably "birdier", but not able to shut it off for family time.

Early&Often · 09-22-2006, 08:02 PM

The last couple of years I have hunted waterfowl say 25 days and maybe upland 6 days each year.

If I had a good dog to work for upland I would like to even out the trips closer to 50/50. Say 15 times per year each.

The lab I hunt with now will go on a modified point, but several times we have had other dogs come behind us and flush birds.

Getting a dog good with a family/kids is very important for the other 95% of the year.

I know I am asking for everything, but appreciate the insight.

Shakey · 09-22-2006, 08:26 PM

If you are looking for a family dog first and a hunting dog second, then you should look long and hard at a "field trial" golden retriever. I was looking for the same thing a few years ago and I couldn't be happier. If you have access to the hunt machine that you described above then you need more of a family dog then a hunting dog. Your problem is going to be getting the upland component. I have had a GSP and although I loved him, my wife hated him. They are a hunting machine and a one man dog. Not the best for young kids. With that said when my retiever wears out my next dog will most likely be a GSP or a german wired haired pointer. My kids will be in their teens be that point

Good luck!

Cohodependent · 09-23-2006, 02:07 AM

I have been doing reseach with the same thing in mind. I am trying to make up my mind between a Pudelpointer and a Wirehaired Pointing Griffon. Both have the reputaion of being among the best all around gun dogs ever bred and they also are perfect family dogs.

Here is a web site dedicated to the Versatile Hunting Breeds. www.versatiledogs.com

I have owned Labs but am looking for a dog that does not shed and has the really strong desire to hunt upland and waterfowl.

smokerchick · 09-23-2006, 09:48 PM

I also wanted a family dog first and hunter retriever second. I wanted to keep the dog inside, and wanted a dog under 50 lbs. I chose a Toller ( Nova Scotia duck tolling retriever). These "little" red dogs were bred in Nova Scotia to hunt in salt water marshes in November. They are strong swimmers, smart and can be used for just about any dog competition except herding. This is my 7 1/2 month old femeale who will not get over 40 lbs. Males range to slightly over 50. PM me if you are curious.

llama77 · 09-23-2006, 09:52 PM

Smokerchick,
Werent Tollers bred for "Tolling"????

llama77 · 09-23-2006, 09:53 PM

Early and often,

I think your dealing with a few myths here. First off, trial dogs are for the most part excellent family dogs and will settle down in the house and be your kids best friend.

My goldens are all trial quality and they have all been excellent in the house. sleeping with me or the kids every night. but get the gun or a bumper out and its go time!!

Goldens arent family dogs first and hunting dogs second. they are what you need them to be. when its time to hunt, thats what they'll do. when its time to play ball with the kids, thats what thell do.

The labs are the same. Many trial dogs are family members.

If your current companion is not birdy enough for you perhaps you should be looking at stronger trial lines.

Another myth is that retrievers are not as productive as pointing or the so called "versatile" breeds in the uplands.

Our experience with Oregon game birds is that the retrievers are MORE productive .

If youve hunted with a dog that can run nice blinds it doesnt seem to make sense to me that you would switch to a breed that wouldnt be as good in that category.

We run more blind retrieves upland hunting than we do waterfowl hunting.

There are certainly venues where a good pointing dog would be an advantage. But for the gamebirds we have and what youve described, I dont think youll do any better than a good quality lab or golden.

Another myth, Retrievers dont have the "desire" to hunt upland birds. do you think they get out of the truck on the breaks of the snake and think "oh, well I guess we are just going after chukars today, this is soooooo boring, can I just stay in the truck?". Really, give me a break.

There isnt one shred of evidence that a GSP, griffon, wired haired,pudlepointer or whatever has any more desire to hunt and find upland birds than retrievers.

The birds in the picture were taken by 4 guys with 3 labs and a Golden. This is typical for us.

GSP's and wire haired dogs and the other "versatiles" are good hunting companions and family dogs. just dont think they have any more drive to hunt than the retrievers.

smokerchick · 09-23-2006, 10:29 PM

hi LLama,
It is my understanding that the dogs used for "tolling" in the 1600's in Holland and later in both England and France, were not used for retrieving. However, the breed started in the late 1800's and early 1900's in Nova Scotia was used for both tolling and retrieving of waterfowl....hence the name (retriever). Since that time they have been used successfully for upland birds in the same way you use your lab and golden retrievers. All tollers, like labs, are not created equal in "nose worthiness". My little female is quite birdy, has a good nose and is a strong swimmer. I have lots of training to do but I am in no hurry. She is definately easier to train than me. Tollers are quite versitile, and are used in many different dog competitions, and they are starting to use them for drug detection dogs, for search and rescue, and also for alpine rescue.

BrotherWolf · 09-24-2006, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Early and often,

I think your dealing with a few myths here. First off, trial dogs are for the most part excellent family dogs and will settle down in the house and be your kids best friend.

My goldens are all trial quality and they have all been excellent in the house. sleeping with me or the kids every night. but get the gun or a bumper out and its go time!!

Goldens arent family dogs first and hunting dogs second. they are what you need them to be. when its time to hunt, thats what they'll do. when its time to play ball with the kids, thats what thell do.

The labs are the same. Many trial dogs are family members.

If your current companion is not birdy enough for you perhaps you should be looking at stronger trial lines.

Another myth is that retrievers are not as productive as pointing or the so called "versatile" breeds in the uplands.

Our experience with Oregon game birds is that the retrievers are MORE productive .

If youve hunted with a dog that can run nice blinds it doesnt seem to make sense to me that you would switch to a breed that wouldnt be as good in that category.

We run more blind retrieves upland hunting than we do waterfowl hunting.

There are certainly venues where a good pointing dog would be an advantage. But for the gamebirds we have and what youve described, I dont think youll do any better than a good quality lab or golden.

Another myth, Retrievers dont have the "desire" to hunt upland birds. do you think they get out of the truck on the breaks of the snake and think "oh, well I guess we are just going after chukars today, this is soooooo boring, can I just stay in the truck?". Really, give me a break.

There isnt one shred of evidence that a GSP, griffon, wired haired,pudlepointer or whatever has any more desire to hunt and find upland birds than retrievers.

The birds in the picture were taken by 4 guys with 3 labs and a Golden. This is typical for us.

GSP's and wire haired dogs and the other "versatiles" are good hunting companions and family dogs. just dont think they have any more drive to hunt than the retrievers.