Dodge Cummins question

Amahnee · 08-21-2006, 02:04 PM

I have a '01 2500 and a week ago Saturday something strange happened. I had run it that morning and the weather has been warm so I didn't wait for the WTS light go off and cranked her over. She started right up and then died.

I thought wow, weird and turned it over and over and over for 30-45 seconds and she fired again and I parked the truck for the day.

Sunday morning I have to run to Coastal to get dog food and I climb in turn the key and wait for the WTS light to go off as usual and she won't fire. I tried to start it a half hour before I called a buddy who is a diesel wrench and he came over and we checked all the fuses and relay's and pulled the lines going into the block to make sure fuel was flowing. It wasn't wet and he thought that there was a chance that the fuel pump might be going as Dodge had an issue in those years with some pumps. He explained that a new pump might run me about $3K.

We turned the key several times to cycle things and it eventually fired up and ran fine all day. I took it in to have the oil changed and the tranny serviced in Gresham Monday and told the service guy my issue and he said to change the fuel filter which I did and it has run fine until this morning where it started and then died. It took about 45 seconds to start again and has run fine all day.

Sorry for the longwindedness. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

98ramtough · 08-21-2006, 02:09 PM

I know the lift pump on those are quite common to fail...

I would take it in to someone to have it tested.

Amahnee · 08-21-2006, 02:19 PM

Lift pump...

roguesteelheader · 08-21-2006, 02:29 PM

I think he means the lift pump not left. Do a google search on Dodge lift pumps.

6wapiti6 · 08-21-2006, 02:38 PM

I just had my third lift pump installed on my '01 (57,000 miles). I guess they have now redesigned it to where it sits in the tank as opposed to the old style which was up near the fire wall....I got it back last wed. after they had it for a week and it ran fine all weekend. Hauled my travel trailer to the coast and back no problem. Got in to start it this am and would hardley turn over. My patience with them is running thin to say the least. I'll give it one more time to the shop before it goes bye, bye.

Amahnee · 08-21-2006, 03:00 PM

Interesting reading: What happens to Dodges

night stocker · 08-21-2006, 04:16 PM

It sounds like a lift pump untill you said it ran fine after it started.When the pump went out on my Ford, it wouldn't run worth a darn.But maybe Fords are different.All the other symptoms are right on.

Amahnee · 08-21-2006, 04:39 PM

The service tech I spoke with awhile ago said it really sounds like a relay(fingers crossed)and said the 100k powertrain warranty would most likely cover if it was a pump. I'm going in in the morning. Details at eleven...

puddles · 08-21-2006, 04:51 PM

i just went thru all that.it always started fine but would seem like it ran out of fuel for a few seconds when driving.then it would be fine for a day or two and then became more frequent.it was the lift pump,but i waited to long to change it,therefore needed a new injector pump as well.lift pump couple hundred injector pump $1700 installed.do not wait to get it checked.pumps will not make the check engine light come on but will throw a code.i went ahead and installed the same lift pump again instead of the more expensive one that goes in the tank.but have bought a fuel pressure tester to keep eye on the lift pump.

joemomma · 08-21-2006, 08:01 PM

My Ford has done the same thing twice, cam shaft sensor, cheap fix, but not sure about the cummins?

Joe Schwab · 08-21-2006, 08:06 PM

I had the lift pump go on my 2001 at 135,000. It just started running crappy on the long hills. It started perfectly. Got it replaced for $750. Several mechanics advised that once the lift pump goes the injector pump is next. And it is expensive. The Dodge went away. Didn't need all that power anymore anyway. All in all it was a great truck!

In retrospect I wish I had spent the 3,000 and got it done. It would have been good for another 125K.

playinghooke · 08-21-2006, 08:25 PM

If you want to check your codes turn your ignition on and off 3 times in a row and the codes will show on the speedo milieage readout. if it is a 216 code it is probably your injection pump when the pickup pump goes out it takes the inj. pump shortly afterwards. If the dealer is to fix this don't let them put the intank pump in they are having problems with the p/u tube screen pluging up and starving your inj. pump for fuel.Its a quick fix till the rig is off warranty. If you want to know more about this pm me I've had all this happen to me but I still love my cummins. And if you need a inj. pump Call Source Auto in portland there the cheapest.

MattPark · 08-21-2006, 09:32 PM

People don't understand how important it is to have a fuel pressure gauge on these trucks. EVERY 98-02 24 valve Cummins will have this problem at some point. Modified or not, your lift pump WILL fail. It's not a luck of the draw type thing, it's a matter of time.

The stock lift pumps are piles of crap. They fail randomly at low miles.

The injection pumps are very sensitive to fuel pressure. If pressure (flow) drops and you get an air bubble in there, it can rupture the diaphragm in the pump. $1000 in parts alone (new pump). This is VERY common.

A fuel pressure gauge almost always shows the lift pump problem long before it completely dies, allowing you to fix it at a convenient time, and potentially save you thousands of dollars worth of injection pump replacement.

The P0216 code definitely means death for your injection pump.

There are a few aftermarket permanent fixes to this problem. I'd SERIOUSLY consider one of them if I owned a 24V, whether I had ever had a problem or not.

I love my 98 12 valve :grin:

Amahnee · 08-22-2006, 06:45 AM

Turned the key three times and it came back with P ECU. I also just got back from a dealer in Wilsonville who informed me that diesels have a 60/100k warranty not a 7/70k. :depressed: Ah, it's only money right? Now if I was only working that wouldn't be so important.

MattPark: What permanent after market fix do you speak of? I bet others would like to know as I do. Thanks!!

Dave

PS: Anybody know of a GOOD,HONEST diesel mechanic somewhere around West Linn?

MattPark · 08-22-2006, 12:07 PM

The FASS system is very popular.

Source Automotive in Milwaukie is the place to go for diesel work.

Bucolic buffalo · 08-22-2006, 12:21 PM

I have an 01 and it sounds like the lift pump. Get a FASS pump. The pump only is $400 + but is easy to install. It replaces only the lift pump and not the filter system. This allows you to use the existing water in fuel warning light and the existing filter. Also get a fuel pressure gage for the system. The injector pump on second generation Dodges requires flow and pressure to keep lubed. Check out TDR magazine on line, there is a lot of information about this problem. Also Dodge no longer puts this pump in as a replacement, they use an in/on tank pump from the new system. It gives high flow but not high pressure. There is some debate about this issue but better safe than sorry.

WAID · 08-22-2006, 01:15 PM

Dad has an old('86) ford diesel that would start run for maybe a minute or two tops then die. After quite a bit of cranking it would fire back up and be fine until we let it sit for a while, turned out the injector return lines and some of the other rubber hoses where just old and starting to leak air. Dad replaced those and it runs great again.

MattPark · 08-22-2006, 01:27 PM

Fuel lines made before the mid 90's were real rubber, and it seems to deteriorate more rapidly, and it can't handle bio diesel well. The fact that his truck is 20 years old doesn't help, either

MOLDY · 08-23-2006, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Source Automotive in Milwaukie is the place to go for diesel work.

Go see Rip, he will fix you up.

Amahnee · 08-23-2006, 11:58 AM

Went to Source Automotive and they did take care of me today. I bought the Fass replacement for the factory lift pump and the difference between the pumps were like Schwarzenegger vs. PeeWee Herman. It has a 4yr. unlimited mileage warranty too.

Back to Source Automotive. Great guy's! Very fair pricing for the install The new pump with install was $659.00. I was going to do it myself but decided that I would just pay them to do it and do it right and I'm glad I did. The old pump was pushing only 3 PSI and the new pump was pushing 19 PSI. When they were finished and cleaning up and checking for leaks we found that the VP44 injector pump was leaking :whazzup: which caused a cold chill to run down my spine after just dumping almost $700 into the new lift pump.

They tightened up the top of the injector pump and the leak was still there so we pulled a bad pump and looked it over to see if we could come up with an idea of what was going on with my pump and decided it might be a bad o-ring? We pulled the pump apart and pulled out the o-ring we thought was bad and sure enough it wasn't installed incorrectly from the manufacturer and was tweaked sideways. We replaced it with an o-ring from the bad pump and I was good to go. It cost me a bit more for the time they took to do this which was fine with me because if I had installed the new Fass pump and the leaked developed than I probably wouldn't know what to have done and ended up buying a new VP44. Source is the best priced place for that too. A new VP44 installed is $1525.00 That's cheap for what I've seen.

What I learned: (1)Crap happens. :depressed: (2)Source Automotive in Milwaukie gained a new lifelong customer for anything that has to do with my diesel.

Tilla · 08-23-2006, 02:35 PM

Good to know!

WAID · 08-24-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Fuel lines made before the mid 90's were real rubber, and it seems to deteriorate more rapidly, and it can't handle bio diesel well. The fact that his truck is 20 years old doesn't help, either

yeah the truck is really starting to show it's age(despite only having 98k miles) and it doesn't help that it spent most the the first half of it's life outside. At least now it has a roof over it's head.

scottishsetter · 08-25-2006, 06:46 AM

Cummins NW has a special on Cummins lift pumps $136 and $199 to install. Had it done on my '02 and noticed the diff. right away. They came back with a total bill exactly as advertised.

Amahnee · 08-25-2006, 07:18 AM

That's a screamin deal,but I'm not the gambling type. You are still doomed for a pump failure and repeat procedure. That pump is the same pump that the factory installs. I'm pretty sure that you only have a six month warranty on it?

The Fass pump has a four year unlimited mileage warranty.

Bucolic buffalo · 08-25-2006, 07:20 AM

The problem with replacing the lift pump with the orginal type Cummins lift pump is it will stll go out, some in as short a time as 16,000 miles to 60,000 miles. If someone got 100,000+ miles on the orginal they were living on borrowed time. As some have said, get a pressure gage installed soon no matter what lift pump you have. If you have an orginal pump on your truck, buy a spare and carry it with you plus the wrenches to replace it. It is easy to replace and beats walking or replacing the the injector pump.

MattPark · 08-25-2006, 04:04 PM

Cummins (and Dodge dealers) no longer sell the OEM replacement pump, they have gone to a new in-tank pump. Their reliability is yet to be determined.