Conscience

[happybrew]

I cannot in good conscience continue to participate on this discussion board. I come here for fishing discussion. Occasionally, the discussion of fishing turns to environmental and political issues surrounding fishing. Often views that are contrary to my own are expressed. This is not in and of itself a problem. The problem comes when I express an alternative opinion. My opinions are different from the prevailing ones in this country, but they are by no means unusual or offensive.

Keep in mind, that I do not originate these discussions. I merely respond to an opinion that I cannot in good conscience allow to go unanswered. I am obligated to do this. I have not engaged in any name calling, nor have I suggested that the opinions of others are not welcome.

There is a double standard at work here. One viewpoint is welcome, but the opposing viewpoint is not. It is okay to advocate draconian family control policies, and nobody raises an eyebrow. If I oppose that, suddenly the topic is taboo, not appropriate for this board, and I am blamed, as if I brought it up to begin with. Not a word is said to the person who originally brought it up. Not one. If it was so inappropriate, for me to reply, why isn't it inappropriate for the person who originally introduced it?

No one has come to my defense on this issue. I can only assume, therefore, that everyone is in agreement. People like me are not welcome in this community. Those who oppose injustice will be ridiculed and put down. I will not participate in a community where people are not afforded equal respect. I can only assume that this move will be welcomed by those who find my opinions annoying. So go to town! Have fun. The only people on the board will be those who agree with you. You want me to take it somewhere else? I will.

happybrew

I just came to your defense Happy, prior to me reading this. In fact in the 99th post of the Sore-Loserman thread I specifically invited you to reply with your opinion. And in doing so can have the 100th post . I did this because you took a couple membners wrongly that your opinions aren't welcome on this BB. It's the subject matter that was opined to be in appropriate for this fishing BB. They may be right. But I welcome you to reply with your opinion in that thread. ...

However, I do take exception of your claim that 'those who opose injustice will be ridiculed and put down' on this board. That not only doesn't happen, if it ever does in the future it will be stopped by Jen or I. - RT

[WildHawg]

Hap, I think you might be overreacting. I have no idea what you are referring to specifically (I avoided the Sore/Loserman thread like the plague), however you cannot change an issue by running away from it.

I recently posted a thread about smalleys and folks went batty about how I "strongly dislike ODFW", and how hard bio's work only to catch crap from guys like me, yada yada yada. Heck Ol' Mike T. even labeled me something like a crass, obnoxious, self serving so and so. Big deal! I don't give a rip about what some short sighted jerk calls me. I know in my heart whats right, and thats all I need to feel good about myself. To run just lets those who oppose your views think that they have won!

Gramps always said "be careful when you talk to folks about religion and politics", I think that was sage advice.

Take your ball and go home if you like. I think you're better off hangin' around and stirrin' up the fire once in awhile, especially if it's an issue of conscience.
Lots of folks don't agree with me--but I'm not gonna let them stop me from speaking my piece.

Oh yeah. For what it's worth I am staunchly pro-life.

[This message has been edited by WildHawg (edited 12-21-2000).]

[Moleman]

Hey HappyBrew......why not do like I do and "NOT" get involved in letting any body know what your opinion is. Oh, sure I have an opinion, but, so what. I can't imagine those of you who type long replies to a subject. You must not have much to do.???? Thus by refraining to get involved I'll be fishing today with no conscience bothering me! And a friendly hello to all I meet on the river.

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"TMM"

[Bait O' Eggs]

Happybrew
I just got caught up on the sore-loserman thread. I even threw my opinion of the topic into the mix (after I said I wouldnt), and probably took a stance you are not happy with. I dont find you objectionable in your feelings towards kids. Matter of fact, I think it is great you have a bunch of kids and seem to be a responsible parent who actually spends time with your kids. That alone put you in a minority in my opinion. To many parents out there who dont give a tinkers damn.

Your leaving this board is not the answer. I actually enjoy your post. Here in a world of hard core salmon chasers you talk about trout fishing. I love to trout fish, some of my funnest times fishing have been trout fishing. Not many people have the guts to step out of the normal circle and talk about a different fishing style here. I am glad I am not a bass fisherman, I would be staked to the cross on this board. In the past bass fishing has been put down quite a bit on this board, by even myself. Your trout updates are great, and you are not afraid to make fun of yourself (ie. getting stuck in the mud) for our own humor. I think this board would be a lesser place if you decide to leave.

I post quite a bit, and let my feeling be heard on all but politics and religion. The sore-loserman thread took a few twist and turn getting to where it is, but dont all conversations wander thru several topics. We just keep on changing the topic and moving along.

You think your opinions are not the prevailing ones. That may or may not be true, but it doesnt make you wrong. When I see something that needs pointed out I will do it. I have gotten crosswise with Jen and RT on a couple occasions. It doesnt bother me that we disagree on topics. I have no hard feeling or harbor grudges, and hope they or anybody else I confront on this BB does either.

What we need here is for you mix up some hops and barley and have us all over for a little refreshment. Nothing like a little face to face to smooth the rough edges off. Please dont leave.



[This message has been edited by Bait O' Eggs (edited 12-21-2000).]

[Phish_on]

yah, be a sport, will ya?

Let's talk about fishing, then ...

I always jump right in to the political stuff, 'cause I think the most important thing is for people to get involved and participate in the process. Differing opinions are just part of working towards the middle ground.

If it's emotionally unbearable, skip it. But I can't see blowing off the whole community. Fishing remains our common interest. Environmental issues, treaty rights, various regulations and hoppy homebrew are all related topics. Emus, football and Shania are more like ... things we might yak about between bites ? ? ?

I thought I was a fanatic angler until I fell into here! Some of these guys are way over the edge -- I have a job and a family and all kinds of other activities going on... that means I don't spend every day in a boat or on a riverbank. But I would! I'm not a "bass" fisherman, or a "salmon" fisherman, I like to catch fish. I like to just TRY to catch fish. Bass are fun to catch. Salmon are real fun to catch and good to eat. My preference is fly-fishing for trout, but in reality that is maybe 25% of my fishing time, so I can't say I'm a hard-core any kinda fisher ...

A virtual community like this benefits from the diversity of its members. When we all start to agree on everything (that should be when THEY start to agree on everything, obviously they're not coming to hug the tree with me ) it will be boring and I will leave also.

It's your own choice, (duh) but don't think "we" are somehow rejecting you. Your comments are thoughtful and sincere and if you don't participate, then we all have lost something.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Come on HB stick it out.
WildHawg, was I the short sighted jerk?

If an opinion is aired in the forest and no one is there to challenge it, is it still wrong?

I've been a member of various discussion boards for years. What I've learned is that you've got a greater chance of waking up with Shania Twain passed out in your bed with emu feathers everywhere than you do of changing someone's mind about a politically-charged topic.

Most of the time I just laugh at them and make mental notes about cluelessness where necessary. Sometimes I cannot help myself and I jump into it, but that's my fault for pandering to it. Best thing to do is just let it go.

I've said what I wanted to say on this, so now I must retire to the restroom for further pondering of the Shania Twain/emu feathers vision.

[cureless1]

Happybrew:

Don't quit on this site, You are not alone on these issues, Many others have opinions that dont get expressed. The more liberal side tends to be more vocal and well rehearsed in its expression. I find the conservative side is more shy and restrained hense the word (conservative), Ideas are no less formed just expressed in other ways.

I have meet RT (Steve) and as most of us know he can be full of it. Some of his fishing techs are as far out as his politics. But take the whole mix pull out what you want and throw the remainder back. His Politics do influence his administration duties at times but I expect that, if it bugs you/me let him know.

RT, im sure you wont be hurt or shocked by anything I have said. If you are we can settle it out at PIR your Chevy and my V10 magnum.

Thanks Mike (cureless)

Fished Tuesday NO FISH!!!

[WildHawg]

No Chnooky, all you did was insinuate I might be happier in Waco. I can respect you. That'd be Mike T. He called me bad names!! Unlike the politically correct world out there, I was taught to hit back when sucker punched (and so are my kids) rather than run yelling "teacher, teacher, Mikey hit me!

[HOGTIDE]

Ya Happybrew...hang in there. Many folks on this board are quick to post gut reactions, which can be very abrasive. But you will also find , when given the opportunity and a little thinking time, they have many redeeming qualities, also. I have seen many olive branches offered here and I have seen many folks agree that they are just going to disagree. I say...get a thick skin and make sure folks do know your point of view. You will find that there is a very moderate semi-silent contigent of posters here that actually play a large role on this BB by
keeping it on a reasonable track. You almost owe it to the abrasive posters to let them know that not everyone sees their myopic view.

Heck, I think RT is wrong most of the time. I'm just polite about it...hopin' to work him for a fishin' trip some day.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Good advise hogtide,

I can tell you that beating on RT from time to time hasnt put him in my boat so I could leach some knowledge out of him. Might have to switch tactics and use your method.

Looks like you have lost a few pounds Steve, your doing a wonderful job on the BB, Your "come on over" CD is in the mail for x-mas, My secret egg cure you knew I had, will also be in the package...... yuck, spit, spit, cough, yuck, cough, spit - Sorry Steve I just cannot do it, I just couldnt be anybody but myself. (jk)

People will know how I feel and I suggest you do the same Happybrew.

[fishbait]

HB,

Just remember, opinions are like noses, everyone has one and none are as perfect as mine. Personally, I don't bother reading some of threads as they won't help me catch fish. The really important issues in life are your health, how many quarts of eggs in your freezer and is the basket on the net big enough. Nothing else really matters...

Gee Hog, you disagree with most of my stuff. And to think that I had you pegged as an intellectual teacher. Guess I can be wrong sometimes.

[HOGTIDE]

ah ... oh..ah No, RT. I'm with you all the way,baby! Su'politics, me politics. Ya, that's what I meant.

..anyway about that story where you hooked 20 fish on the Wind. I was wondering if we could get together and.... auhh,heck,... I'm screwed.

Isn't "Intellectual Teacher" an oxymoron? Kinda like 'Jumbo Shrimp' and 'Military Intelligence.'

[DanS]

Look happybrew,

It's obvious that we have differing political views, but I've always enjoyed your posts as they are typically well written and given much thought, even though I disagree with many of them. But here's a quote from the other thread:

"We don't need abortion and artificial birth control. The most effective form of birth control is abstinence. But that's too hard, isn't it. "

Now that's not exactly mainstream. Pro-life and pro-abstinence are views I can understand, but not agree with. However, I find the anti-birth-control stance to be just to the left of fire and brimstone. You had to know somebody would argue that point.

No need to bail, though. Nobody was picking on you, just disagreeing with your message. I wasn't attacking your message per se, either. It just looked like that thread was degenerating into a pro-life/pro-choice argument, and you weren't helping matters by labeling the opposition as pro-abortion. You don't really thing anybody is pro-abortion do you? A pro-choice stance hardly makes one "pro-abortion", it just means you believe it should be a choice made by a woman and her doctor, not "big government" as you conservatives like to label it.

I think your points of view would be better served by you sticking around and letting us know where you stand on the issues. I apologize if I came off as trying to squelch your point of view. I was just trying to steer the thread away from where it was heading, maybe without proper cause, as your comments were intended to rebut earlier statements. So whaddya say? I say stick around and keep us left-leaning liberal/****** types in line. Otherwise hey-y'all and Crusty are going to be too busy cleaning up the riff-raff!

Fish on........

[Steve]

Hey HB, I was the only Republican on this thread, or at least it felt that way, WE WON! by using the Demo's rule book...we can and do learn....learn what IS is....and don't take pregnant shads (chads).

[smilesforu]

Good luck in what ever you choose Happy. I need to teach Shania how to tie flies with those emu feathers using nothing but duct tape or was that while duct taped

Tight Lines

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Marty M
Steelheader.net