ethics

[C&R]

Looking for thoughts on this site about the following.

1. Targeting dark fish, ie summer runs when the winters are in?

2. Should one continue fishing after you have limited?

3. ethics of broodstock C&K, as the process removes and reduces the number of "natives" that could spawn and reproduce "native" fish.

4. Fishing over redds,why do it as opposed to why not.

thanks

C&R

[Salmonator]

1) I have caught some really nice looking summers into January and would have to say the meat on most aren't worth it.

2)Illegal to fish after a salmon limit on most coast rivers, and illegal after a limit of steelhead in all coast rivers? DO NOT QUOTE ME

3)Long term potential of keeping the genes cleaner worth live spawning and releasing a few pairs of nates.

4)Obvious enough?

[Crusty]

Let's define our terms.

First: Any game violation is illegal.

Second: Any game violation is also an unethical act.

Third: An unethical act is not necessarily an illegal act.

"Ethical" sans an accompanying illegal act is in the eye of the beholder only. e.g. killing a native when the law allows it; taking a fellow's spot while he is filling out his tag; etc. "Unethical" without a game violation is similar to a social more. It may well have a negative social consequence, but has no legal consequence. Also, it is a behavior which may or may not meet other's definition of "unethical".

Now...Go for it!

Crusty

"For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism."

[WildHawg]

1) Trageting "dark" summer run Steelhead is not a question of ethics in my opinion UNLESS they are a native fish (ie. Siletz, N. Umpqua etc.etc.).

2)Depends. Legal if your fishing Sturgeon. I personally am satisfied with a two fish limit and don't continue to fish. But...given the pressure on rivers these days (not to mention the fact that is illegal) it seems unethical to continue to fish, even if it's catch and release, after you've caught your limit. Let somebody else have a turn.

3) I assume you meant C&R--first of all, by definiton, these are not native fish. The mere fact that they are spawned and reared in a hatchery disqualifies them as such according to the ODFW and NMFS. Conversely, they are of native genetic stock. Given that I think it is a mistake to think you are "doing the river a favor" by harvesting these fish. Have I retained these right adipose clipped fish? Yes. Do I think it ethically improper to do so (which I have done) no.

ARRRGGGGHHHH!!! this one touched a nerve. What kind of piece of...woops, who would ethically decide that it is right to consciously fish for something that is no longer valuable in terms of food, and that is trying with its last ounces of energy to propogate that which we anglers are so desirous of? 2 kinds of folks: those who are newcomers and don't know any better, and worthless pieces of $#!+ who provide all those who would stop us from our God given rights to hunt/gather that which we eat with all the ammunition they need to make us all look look like a bunch of fish abusing gamehogs. Ahhhh!! I fell better now. Anything else you would like guidance on my son ;^)

[rob allen]

I am a little more opinionated than most so if you don't agree please take me with a grain of salt but understand that i think that i am right and that i think you are wrong:O)

Targeting summer fish after the end of the year is mildly unethical. the closer to spawning time the more unethical it is


I have no problem with someone releaseing more than their limit. If there are other people around it probably best to let others go through a run that you are fishing.

Noone should be fishing over redds that is flat out wrong and if you believe that its ok you are wrong. This one is not an opinion!

Broodstock hmm well with the science avaliable leaning towards first generation domestication i see no problem with guys keeping broodstock fish. I am guessing that as more studies are done we will find that these fish are just like hatchery fish and will not successfully reproduce in the wild.

[SSPey]

Well I fall out pretty much in line with Rob above on this one. Especially the third one about broodstock fish. I've ranted on this BB in the past about broodstock fish, uncertainties in their "wildness" and the likelihood that they're just hatchery fish with a new name. And hey Rob, I done good representing us flyguys today, was the only one on the river with a chrome bright steelie!! Hatchery origin, and quickly dispatched for the good of all!

[Ramstrong]

My turn,

Targeting dark fish, bad. There's no such thing as a "smoker", if you put a piece of poop in the smoker, what do you get? A smoked turd.

Continuing to angle for salmon after retaining a limit is illegal thus unethical, you never know when you're going to deep hook one and then you've got to release a bleeder, bad. However if you are not retaining fish release away. I would have had to cut my BC trip very short, if I stopped after releasing my limit.

Brood stock fish aren't wild, they do have native genetics, but are very much hatchery fish. They are just supposed to be a "better" hatchery fish and are there for a consumptive fishery, not to bolster wild fish #'s. Bonk away, the idea is new here in the north, but broodstock fish have been in place on the coquille river for most all of my fishing life, and they rock.

Fishing over redds, I am shocked that this is actually recognized as semi ethical in the mid west. These fish are of little/no sporting or table value. If they are on the redd, they have won the battle, let them be. If you see someone fishing redds inform them of this fact. If they are not receptive you aren't responsible for what happens next.

[Pilar]

1)I didn't know you could 'Target' a specific run of steelhead, other than by location. I've caught dark fish and they go back every time. Most of them go back unless it's a hatchery fish that won't survive the ordeal.

2)This is the norm when Sturgeon fishing. We quit when we run out of bait, daylight or adult beverages. Rarely keep any fish. I'm just looking for the buckled rod.

3)I've only seen these in the high mountain lakes. They are real kid pleasers and pretty fun. I wouldn't eat one though.

4)Ramstrong, what you said bro. Fish that are in Redds represent the species in that most important way. They have passed the natural selection tests and made it home. Catch them on film and wonder at the tenacity of the natural world.

The bend is your friend!

Although fishing over salmon and steelhead redds is a great place to catch trout...

[THE REEL HEY_YALL]

I am swearing off posting or replying to the board for some time because some of the bb members are sorry sissies so I will let them do without fun and humorus antics for a while, but I have to ask...."What is fishing over redds?" There, I am done.

redds = spawning beds

[wiser]

If it's illegal to keep fishing after retaining a limit of salmon or steelhead why do some (or is it all) guides still have all their lines in the water while trying to get the last fish for a "boat limit"? I never quite understood why that practice was any different than an individual continueing after limiting.
Fishing in or over redds should be illegal like it is at Oxbow Park during the fall chinook spawning season. That rule has only taken a few hundred yards of the river away from angling. I certainly think it's unethical too. Most hook-ups are snagged fish and the practice certainly could be called harrassment of the spawning fish.
My beliefs on broodstock fish are still being formed. I haven't seen enough information on the subject. I guess initially I think that if a hatchery program must be run and if there are adequate numbers of wild fish to support a limited take, the use of native broodstock would make more sense than using out of basin stock.

[Hoosier Daddy]

As far as the guide thing, Dave may get PO'd at me for this, but I think it's just $$'s. Ups there limit-out rate or whatever = good advertising = more business = $$$$$$$$$$$. Have to ask him though.

[Crusty]

Re: The Guide Thing

It is illegal and therefore unethical.

Crusty