Marmot Dam Counts

[wiser]

Just finished viewing a chart showing fish passage at Marmot Dam during 2000. A couple things were interesting to me.
1. 784 winter steelhead returned to the dam. Only 42 of those fish were wild. What does that mean? Acclimatiom to lower river sites has kept the hatchery fish from returning above the dam? The sports industry is doing one hell of a job removing hatchery fish from the system? The C&R regulations for wild steelhead is working? Still lots of question regarding the yearly planting of 200,000 winter steelhead smolt and only 42 make it to Marmot Dam.
2. 174 summer steelhead returned to the dam, only 59 were hatchery. This is a return from what is touted as a hatchery fishery only. Skamania stock summer steelhead were thought to be non-viable regarding spawning sucess potential. Are the summers becomming successful at reproducing? Again, are acclimation strategies keeping hatchery summer steelhead below Marmot?
3.Look at those springer numbers for this little river. Compared to steelhead numbers. That's why spinger fishing on the Sandy was rated as on of my fishing high points. It will be interesting to see how many of these fish are clipped when all springers coming back to the Sandy are clipped.

The chart I am talking about was found at www.flyfishusa and was provided by ODFW.

[drifter]

Hey Salt: Thanks for the post. Marmot is one of my favorite places to fish.

Went to the site for www.flyfishusa.com, but did not find the chart you refer to. What am I doing wrong?

Also, do you know if PGE (or other) is giving daily fish counts at Marmot. They used to, but stopped when they began trapping hatchery fish at the dam. Thanks again, drifter.

[wiser]

Drifter
try http://flyfishusa.com/newsletter/current/
Just a short ways below the picture of the Winter steelhead there is a box that says click here to view Marmot Dam counts.
That should get you in. The site also has pretty regular updates on conditions and success. Let me know if you're still having trouble. I can e-mail Mark Bachman at The Fly Shop and have him send you the newsletter. You can also subscribe(free) and get it weekly.
PGE fish line 503-464-7474, not very recent (currently Nov 19 count) but may begin regular counts when fish start passing.


[This message has been edited by Young Salt (edited 12-18-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Young Salt (edited 12-18-2000).]

[drifter]

Thanks Salt: great information

Maybe I'll see you on the Sandy! Drifter

[SandySteel]

Young Salt. The person to contact with questions about Marmot. (Believe me he's been getting quite a few lately) is Jim Muck, the basin biologist for ODFW. Of course I noticed that the topic that you clicked on included a discussion with him and the host for flyfishusa. An attempt to make the upper Sandy (above Marmot) wild fish only began before the sorting started two years ago. The Northwest Steelheaders built an acclimation pond near Marmot (I should say rebuilt it.) and ODFW used it to acclimate winter steelhead and other species below the dam. The low number of returning hatchery fish to go above Marmot may be due to the acclimation but one can never be sure. I do know that it is one reason that the department is looking favorably at having a split basin system continue when Marmot dam is removed. They feel that they can keep stray ratios below 10% and meet NMFS guidelines for the Endangered Species Act. This goes hand in hand with a wild broodstock program that started last year so that all hatchery stocks are from "in system" fish. Muck will be presenting the 5 management proposals that were created by the steering committee on January 19 to the ODFW commissioners.

------------------
Eric Neiwert
Sandy River Chapter Northwest Steelheaders
Portland OR

[Ramstrong]

That isn't the same Jim Muck that worked at the Charleston office the summer of 92 is it? If so he's a good guy, and an avid outdoorsman. I would definately see him trying his hardest to maintain a viable fishery. Get him started about elk hunting at Raineer.

[Fishhead]

I like the info but would like to know if this guy can get the area below Dodge Park opened up for passage to the Pipeline or Girl scout holes now that its closed off?

[Steve]

What they did not tell you was that the hatchery fish were transported to 'Roslyn Lake as surplus. The move to remove all hatchery fish / fin clipped out of the system will mean that nobody will be able to retain a Steelhead from the Sandy river....

[wiser]

Sandy Steel
I just found it interesting so few clipped fish returned to the sorting facility, especially since smolt were acclimated to the site.
I am totally against managing this system on a split basin policy. This system should be just that, a system. Don't want to go there right now, different topic. My position on this matter was only strengthened while sitting on the 18 member steering committee you speak of.

Steve
You don't quite have your facts straight. Yes some hatchery steelhead were recycled into Roslyn Lake but it was only done when fish were ripe and expected to spawn before they could be return as high as Marmot(from the recycling point at Lewis and Clark State Park). Biologists do have concerns regarding the spawning that takes place below Marmot and wanted to minimize potential for cross breeding with wild fish spawning below the Dam. Early arriving hatchery winter fish were all recycled to Lewis And Clark Park for additional angling opportunity. If you catch a hatchery fish with a hole or series of holes punched in the dorsal fin it has been recycled.

Yes, it's the same Jim Muck from the coast. He does seem to be doing a good job on the Sandy and has a good track record for improving returns. I hope people let him job. Increased hatchery supplementation doesn't allways mean increased returns.
FYI
The person in charge of the decision to close access to the Girl Scout hole is Maggie Stone mstone@portlandcampfire.com
I'm told Metro has approached Portland Campfire regarding purchase of the property with Greenspaces bond measure aquisition funds but has been turned down so far. If it were to be purchased by Metro, access over the property would be reestablished.

[This message has been edited by Young Salt (edited 12-19-2000).]

[Steve]

Young Salt, try and understand the concept that there are no surplus Steelhead. Recycling steelhead is a repugant idea...for a modern society, this goes to show the hatcheries are not putting enough fish into the system and phasing out the ones that are there. If you believe that there are wild fish in the Sandy River system after all these years...check under the Christmas Tree on monday morning...you'll find piles of money..and a new Duckworth....non-finclipped is not equal to wild.

[wiser]

That's what I like about this board, if you wait long enough you'll find something to agree about. Steve, I think the Idea of recycling steelhead is repugnent too!!! Also, I'd like my Duckworth to be a red 21 footlong model and the money to be crisp twentys.
You all have a merry Christmas. There is a Santa