Hot water heater question

[Tacklebuster]

I have a gas hot water heater. On the side of the heater is a pvc pipe that runs down to the base of the heater. I have noticed this pipe discharges water at times. Not much water, but enough to make a small puddle on the floor.

Is this normal

[night stocker]

Chris,no. Mine did that when I turned the water temperature up too high. Turn it down a notch and then see.

[slabhunter]

Are you are talking about the pressure relief valve output? Seems to me it should only discharge if things are getting too hot and generating steam.

[Jsail]

That woould be the dicharge tube from the presure relief valve. It shouldn't drip like that. Easy to replace.
Do a search on google to see a picture of the process.

[Tacklebuster]

Thanks guys,
It is a pressure releif thing. I can't seem to ever see it discharge water. I will watch it for ten minutes or so and nothing. Leave for a couple of hours and come back and there is water I will turn it down a notch and see what happens

[JustCallMeDave]

Technically you have a gas COLD water heater. :P

Just one of those things that we say that doesn't make sense.

[Swamp Puppy]

Tacklebuster - what you are noticing is not uncommon. built up pressures occur for a number of reasons in an enclosed system..high temp being the most common, but other reasons can also cause the "burping" you are seeing.

not sure how old your house is...in newer homes they require expansion tanks on hot water systems which will (should) eliminate the burping. also, if you don't want to go through the hassles and expense of installing an expansion tank you can do what i did. Building Codes allow for you to install a thing called a Govenor 80 (i think that's what it was called..lol.) you can buy one at either A-Boy or George Morlan and they don't cost alot. they easily install into one of your toilets on top of the fill valve and when pressure builds up in your system it burps from that instead of your water heater. (yes, i know the toilet uses cold water...but it is all the same enclosed system and pressures transfer throughout it..so this WILL relieve the pressure in the water heater that causes burping.)

before i had installed mine (during construction) i used to find the same puddles of water under my water heater. in the 2 years after i installed the relief valve, i have yet to see a drop of water from my pressure relief on the water heater.

if you do install a pressure relief system and you still see the burping from the water heater you may have more serious troubles. you will probably want to hook up a pressure guage to test the incoming pressure of the city water and make sure they aren't too high. correct pressure should be around 45-50psi, but could vary up or down from that. anything over 85psi is too high and you need to contact your water service. you can get a pressure guage that attaches to a hose bib outside. then make sure all water is off in the house (including filling toilets, dishwasher, and washing machines) and turn on the hose bib....and there's your pressure.

[Swamp Puppy]

Technically you have a gas COLD water heater. :P

even more technically, COLD doesn't really exist. only varying levels of heat truly exist. "cold", as a term, is simply something we humans have created to describe a level of heat that is below our own body temps of 98.6 degrees. there is no way to measure "cold". you continue to measure heat all the way down to approx -460F which is the point where all molecular motion stops. absolute zero.

a true term would be to call it a, "water temperature increaser".

[JustCallMeDave]

0

[Swamp Puppy]

now you're talkin....lol.

[spinnerbob]

Tacklebuster,

Just a note on the Governor 80. I wouldn't use one in the master bathroom if you're a light sleeper. Some of them make a noise like toilet running from time to time as they function. Best bet is the expansion tank at the cold side of the water heater, if you have the means to do so. Much more solid-state and reliable.

[WheresMyBobber]

I had the same problem and installed the toilet tank pressure relief valve (don't know if it's a Governor 80 or not), but it solved the problem for us. Cost less than $50, and have never had hot water "burps" again. Any excess pressure in the system dumps into your toilet tank instead of the dumping out of your water heater. There are other options, but they cost more and are more labor intensive.

[Rank Amateur]

Our city required backflow devices and this essentially causes a closed system on the house side of the device. When the cold water is heated it expands and thus water pressure will build in the house plumbing, it has been known to bulge water heaters.

A simple solution is to intall an air hammer on your main supply line, it is simply a length of pipe in the vertical position above the line it is hooked into and is capped off. This forms an pocket of trapped air that just compresses as pressure builds. This will also reduce the banging of water lines when valves are shut off rapidly. They are pretty simple to make and install on plastic pipe.

[Tacklebuster]

I turned down the temp of the heater but it seemed to make no difference. It will still discharge enough water in two days to almost fill up a soup bowl.

Looks like I need to find out how much pressure is coming in to my water lines. This all started to happen about two weeks ago. I also notice sometimes when I turn on a faucet that the water pressure is twice what it usually is for the first two seconds then goes back to normal This doesn't happen all the time but sometimes.

[spinnerbob]

I turn on a faucet that the water pressure is twice what it usually is for the first two seconds then goes back to normal This doesn't happen all the time but sometimes.

Good observation. This tells you your water supply is a closed system (incabable of forcing thermal expansion pressure back to the city main). Thus there is no need know the exact pressure coming from the city, be it 55 or 105. When your water heater heats water, it creates extreme pressures, and one of the two described methods is the answer. I wouldn't have a Gov 80 in my house, but they are cheap and easy. Call several plumbing shops and ask them "How much to install a Gov 80 or an Expansion tank at my water heater?" They'll be in and out in less than an hour. Or if you're able, just put in a Gov 80 yourself.

--Chris

[iwanttofish]

How old is your water heater?
You should not have any discharge coming out of there unless there is a problem.

I inspect homes that are new to 120 years old and only see that very rarely.
The TP valve should be replaced or if the water heater is around 10-15 years old then check into replacing it they are not that expensive. If you want to upgrade you might look at the tankless water heaters, there are some pretty good rebates out there.

Check with a plumber dont just reley on the Big box store for your answer.

Check with your county if you are going to replace it some countys require a plumbing minor permit.

Mike

[Swamp Puppy]

You should not have any discharge coming out of there unless there is a problem.

sorry, i hate to call you out on this, but this simply isn't true. yes, water burping from the pressure relief valve can be an indicator of a problem, but it doesn't mean you absolutely have a problem. all it means is that there is pressure trapped in the system that needs a way out. the relief valve is that way out unless you install some other way for your system to compensate for pressure changes.

[Tacklebuster]

The weird thing about this is it just started to happen. It started to happen when I noticed the faucet having more pressure for the first couple of seconds and then back to a normal flow. The water heater is 8 years old and was put in when the house was built. I do have a valve right before the water meter that prevents back flow back into the city pipes. I turned the temp down but it still discharges about 2 cups of water in a 24 hour period.

This govenor 80, or whatever it is. Why wouldn't some of you put one in your house? I just don't understand how I can have more pressure in the lines all of a sudden

[ET]

Since it is something that just started two weeks ago, I'm inclined to believe something is wrong with your water heater or pressure relief valve. Contractors aren't known for installing the highest quality water heaters in new construction so eight years may be the end of the line. Maybe it is overheating (even though you turned it down). This would explain the overpressurization and the discharges. Maybe the water heater's internal temperature regulator is going bad...

You may want to put a thermometer in your hot water and see what temperature you get.

One obvious test would be to turn your water heater all the way down or off and see if you still get the discharges. If you still get discharges then I would look at the pressure relief valve.

[Catching Nemo]

I've heard that some of the cities have been installing one way valves to prevent water from returning to the city lines. Since it is no longer an open loop system, the pressure needs somewhere to go, and problems are created that never existed before.

An expansion tank should run you less than $100 installed (my first choice). You could also attach additional piping/hose, to the pressure relief pipe, and route it outdoors (depending on where your water heater is currently located). I would also put a 90* elbow, at the end of the extension, to make sure that anything coming out is directed into the ground and not straight out.

[Swamp Puppy]

as a new issue, it could indicate a problem. as for the govenor 80, some people don't like idea of the sound of water venting into their toilet bowls, but i have never heard mine purge. it works just fine. personal preference i guess. either one meets new residential codes.

[Salty1]

Tacklebuster,

Are you on city water or a well? :whazzup: When was the last time you FLUSHED the tank?? :whazzup: Can there be a simple sediment (which will can cause fault conditions in the check valve) build-up :whazzup: IMHO iwanttofish and ET may have touched on the real issue or are at last well on target. From what I've culled from this posting, it appears it is the TP or "Temperature and Pressure" relief valve is indicating a problem exists. While I won't disagree with all these wonderful suggestions for help, your problem is recent and chronic, think seriously into a replacement unit. Pressure within a tank builds For A Reason, and unless the T&P Valve is a faulty one, serious issues may be building within the unseen confines of HWH tank itself. L K-----> http://www.plumbingstore.com/trouble...erheaters.html Hope this helps you - the on demand tankless units are the Bomb!!

[Tacklebuster]

About the same time frame as all of this started, I changed out all "guts" of all three toilets in my house. They were 8 years old and one of the toilets upstairs would like to run sometimes. Today I went down and picked up a gov 80, to my surprise, it looked just like the guts of the downstairs toilet that I took out and replaced Looks like that is where my problem was. If it stops discharging now, I shouldn't have to worry about investigating further should I

[Swamp Puppy]

sounds like you found your problem. if it stops discharging, i would stop worrying about it.

look at it this way...at least now you know that the relief valve on your water heater is functioning properly.

[slabhunter]

It would still be prudent to drain/flush the tank periodicly.

[night stocker]

I thought an expansion tank was a plumbing code.I installed one.They are not that tough.Chris, I am suprized there isn't one in your home with it being only eight years old.

[Swamp Puppy]

a tank is code...you can also use a governor 80 in place of an expansion tank and still be in spec with the codes.

[Tacklebuster]

Thanks guys
I take it that "burping" of the lines is quite common due to the fact there is expansion tanks and Gov 80's to install. I put in the Gov 80 and no water puddles for 24 hours

[ehunter]

We have the same problem and one plumber says it can be caused by new houses being built either up stream or down stream putting more pressure on the water line has there been any new constuction near you?

[Tacklebuster]

There has been four new houses built around me within the last year.

[ehunter]

That is what happened to us we still occasionaly get a small discharge so I am going to look into what swamp puppy did with a govenor 80 we have a bathroom in the garage that we could burp and no one would ever hear it... :grin: