Another archery question (Bull vs. Human?)

steelhead22 · 07-14-2006, 05:56 PM

This being my first year archery elk hunting, I haven't been exposed to bugling elk OR people calling elk that much since I've primarily hunted them after the rut. When you're out there, can you tell the difference between the two?

It seems like it would be kind of difficult to tell, and I'd feel like a real [whoopsydaisies!] making a hunt on another hunter thinking I was getting a "response" from a stubborn bull. This goes the other way as well. Have you ever been "hunted" by another hunter during archery season? Does this happen or am I just sounding really green?

mtn300 · 07-14-2006, 06:47 PM

Sometimes you can it depends on the person calling. I prefer the reed type calls the new sonic dome yuo can sound more realistic and a call you just blow on. If it is the same call over and over and is pretty consistant, probably a human. If it is sneak in and let one rip right behind them lol.

sliverpicker · 07-14-2006, 07:05 PM

You can usually tell with the bigger old bulls, they have something down deep that a human can't get to. Also when a bull starts ripping off a series of grunts at close range, you'll know it! A human just can't get the volumn in the grunts that a bull can.

I like to start out with some sweet "where are you" cow sounds when I get in an elky looking spot. If a bull is within hearing distance(sometimes quite aways)he'll answer you with a "hear I am" bugle. But most hunter's won't hear the cow call and rip off a bugle in response, at least in experience.

Be advised. Some bulls just don't sound like those real pretty 4 or 5 note bugles you see and hear on video's. Several times I've heard what I thought was a rookie blowing a flute style bugle

, only to have it turn into a nice bull!

Another time I ripped off a bugle across a big juniper flat and canyon at first light after an all night rain. The sound resonates forever under those conditions. My brother and I heard a hereford beller back in response from about 3/4 of a mile. I waited a minute and ripped another bugle, this time the hereford beller'd back and added a series of deep grunt's.

Of course when we got in his backyard he grabbed his cow's and beat feet.

Good luck and have fun!

Myles · 07-15-2006, 05:49 AM

You can usually tell, buuutttt, it may be best to check it out just in case. I try to sound like a pubesent(sp) teenager whose voice is changing with a cracking, sometimes squeeling bugle. There are a ton of hunters who have seen the videos and have the same Primos bugle and try real hard to sound like the guys on the videos.
If you get a response right away it won't hurt to get ready for a shot just in case, I've been fooled more than once thinking it was another hunter only yo find it really was a bull. But if you keep getting real impatient calls not getting any closer it just might be a hunter applying his newly aqquired knowledge.
This being your first time, be aware of satelite bulls, they'll be hanging around a herd trying to score and will sneak around you after you bugle, usually down wind to check you out. If you get a response then a few minutes later start hearing a little tiptoeing around you then you may be busted by a satelite bull. After gettting a response you may want to move downwind 30 or 40 yds and then work your way towards the responding bull.
Good luck, and if you don't get one I hope you at least get into 'em, you'll be addicted after that.
Myles

elklaker · 07-15-2006, 06:09 AM

Some people have an awesome ability to call elk and are very hard to distinguish but most don't have that talent.
And like sliverpicker said some of the poorest calls you will hear and think someone tore a reed and that will turn out to be one of the bigger bulls.
Only experience will help with that one, in my opinion. Time in the field, especially with experienced archers will teach you more than all the videos combined.

dla · 07-15-2006, 07:24 AM

Humans usually sound too good. And humans often only know one series of notes. Real Elk have unique voices. Young bulls have voices that crack and squeek. Old bulls have deep, high-volume roars.

Most guys cow-call like a lost calf, because it is hard to do soft notes with hand-held reeds. Lousy cow-calling could be the reason cougars show up. I know my son brought in a bear with his cow-calling.

sooslaw · 07-15-2006, 07:45 AM

excellent advice from these obviously experienced bow hunters!! All elk were not created equal and that goes for there bugle as well. Big bulls dont always want to give there location away with a monster bugle especially when they think you are a cow. They may give you a squeel, not so much of a bugle. You can be pleasantly surprised at how big an animal can let out a whimpy squeel, but when he thinks you are a threat, its a whole new ball game. it is near impossible to duplicate the sound from their bellies and nads! You can literally feel it like you can when some kid drives by with his woofers blasting. I try to follow up on most bugles just in case. I have been fooled by bulls who sound like you next door neighbor who followed you to your hole before!!

switchback00 · 07-15-2006, 08:08 AM

called a roundhead in before here in the coast range a few years ago. I have never seen someone so let down when he saw who was bugling. He complimented me though

steelhead22 · 07-15-2006, 11:31 AM

Wow! GREAT RESPONSES!

Thanks for the help, at this point I can use all I can get.

This should be an "interesting" year, but I'm sure I'm going to learn A LOT. Hopefully the transition from rifle to archery isn't going to be that tough, but I'm probably being too optimistic. You guys are really helping in shortening the learning curve for me. Thanks again.

Paul

fishinpoor · 07-15-2006, 04:22 PM

you can be fooled at a distance,some guys are scary good with a bugle,but as mentioned several times already,when he is close enough no man alive can duplicate the shear volume that can only come from the belly/chest of a 500-800 lb animal,the ones that will get you are the squealers that never give you that deep gutteral sound that will make the hair on the back of your stand up.I've had little bulls sound like 350p&y and had 350 bulls sound like raghorns,only real encounters in the woods will teach you the differance.most guys bugle too often and they don't mix it up enough,same tempo,notes,literally sounds like a rewind/replay.when you hear your first real bull up close you will be doomed like the rest of us,now i must go and rake a tree and p... on my chest,then flop down in the wet mud.

switchback00 · 07-15-2006, 05:49 PM

Fishinpoor is right about people bugling way too much. You really have to play and feel out each and every bull. They all act different and all want to hear different things. I have had a lot more success with a cow call than a bugle. When they get in close use the soft cow calls and stay clear of the bugles unless you get a real stingy bull. When I first started bowhunting back 10 years ago I used to bugle way too much, the mistake I made the first few years was bugling when they got in close. I would get so excited and lay it on a little to thick in those early days. I called in 3 nice bulls my first year and each one pinned me down because I wouldn't lay off the bugle. I wish you luck though your first year will be very exciting if you can get into some vocal elk. One more piece of advice that is just as important as your calling is your set ups. 9.999 times out of ten those big boys will circle and try to wind you or "the elk" they are coming to so that is something else to keep in the back of your mind. You should have a lot of fun and good luck keep us all posted on how you do.

quackersnacker · 07-15-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Be advised. Some bulls just don't sound like those real pretty 4 or 5 note bugles you see and hear on video's. Several times I've heard what I thought was a rookie blowing a flute style bugle

, only to have it turn into a nice bull!

One of the worst lessons I ever learned was when I cow called in a hunter. I stood up and waved him off and he politely obliged and contiued on along with his, IMO, horible bugling skills. Less than, I kid you not, 5 seconds after sitting back down and leaning my bow against a tree a dandy bull comes through the small trees in the back of my ground blind. Not 6 feet from me!! In less than another 5 seconds he was standing where I had been moments earlier, got 1 sniff of me and whirled back through my blind leaving me in a cloud of dust and bewilderment!

The rule of always being prepared only works if you actually follow it.

fishinpoor · 07-15-2006, 07:25 PM

having bulls pin you down when they are close can be a real problem,if you are hunting with a partner and he is behind you that will certainly help you the shooter go undetected,a couple of tricks i use when calling alone or even for a partner is as the bull closes the distance i will always turn the grunt tube behind and to the side i want the bull to come to,also if you pinch the end of the tube you will sound like your farther away,i have called bulls inside of 20 yards and they are still looking farther out in '03 i killed a bull at 25yds and my caller was only 10yds behind me,i shot the bull,he walked off a few yds,i turned around and told my partner to call again,he did and the bull came looking again,arrow #2 was on the way a few days later on the same ridge i called a bull into my partner,i was only 30yds behind and off to one side,1 arrow and 30 minutes later we were standing over his 318 p&y 6x6.so you can still bring a bull into range even when bugling at him at spitting distance,terrain,cover and how you throw the sound around can make all the differance in not getting busted.all this elk talk is getting me fired up.

gottafish · 07-15-2006, 07:35 PM

I am alway supprised by how many times elk come in with out a peep from down wind. I have killed three elk from behind the caller and faceing down wind. That will tick the shooter off LOL. but it happens a lot .

sliverpicker · 07-15-2006, 07:43 PM

If you don't already know how to use a mouth call, learn how before season. I always have one in my mouth or in an aligator clip on my pack shoulder strap for quick action. When a bull comes in and goes into your shooting lane, give one short cow mew. Nine out of ten times the bull will freeze in his tracks for the shot.

I prefer to let a bull walk slightly past me before stopping him. I shoot a recurve and I have the arrow about half drawn, so when I give a cow mew the string comes back as the bull stops, and the arrow is away. No holding, no guessing yardage, no sighting, just shoot to kill.

slave4chrome · 07-16-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

. No holding, no guessing yardage, no sighting, just shoot to kill.

Amen

ehunter · 07-17-2006, 06:34 AM

Here is another tip if you scare a bull after buggling he will probably not respond to the same bugle we carry different calls. If you spooked the bull yesterday and you want to hunt him today he may come in to a different bugle or cow call but he will more than likey remmber what call you scared him with and he will ignor you.

You should be good with a couple different cow calls and bugles. From a distance it is very hard to tell the difference from a elk and a human. Up close it is hard to confuse a big bull grunting and moaning. I also agree with every body above regarding elk they all have different bugles once we thought we were hearing a mule braying no it was large 6 point going horse from buggling... :grin:

Gary Miller · 07-17-2006, 07:03 AM

This is some great info for us novice archery elk hunters.
Thanks for the great posts....

Steelie Ben · 07-17-2006, 01:56 PM

Funny story about calling in another hunter!! I was hunting the coast and had set up on a clear cut and started to my calling sequence hoping to catch a bull coming out to inspect the cows I was sitting on. I started with some soft cow calls and and proceeded to get a little more robust in my calling. When I started squeeling and instantly got a response from down wind of me, there isn't supposed to be a bull behind me!! I ask my partner if that one sounded funny to him too and he said it sounded fake!! It was late in the evening so I decided to give this newbie at calling a thrilling evening hunt!! I continued to bugle back at him everytime he screamed at me. I moved about 100 yards after every bugle and kept it up till around dark at which time I decided we should head back to the truck. On the very last bugle I get a response from a real elk coming from where the elk are supposed to be, figures it must be Karma!! We get back to the truck and low and behold there is Mr. Newbie caller toting the newest high tech bugle on the market. Of course he had to tell us about how this huge bull just ran him all over the hillside screaming his head off at him but how the bull was always just a little to far away to get a look at!! :grin: Looking back this probably wasn't the nicest thing I have ever done but it sure was fun, and think about all the stories that that little event spawned on both sides!! I am sure I have chased a fake bugle or two but they make great stories!!
Ben

uhmw · 07-17-2006, 03:58 PM

Generally If I herd a bull bugling I would stop moving and try and set up and call him in. I just hope its a bull and try and to get a responce you nenver know that hunter might be working a bull too that is between the two of you. Some of what I though were the worst bugels I ever heard turned out to be real. I spoted a huge bull that was bugeling to another hunters call but was closer to me when he responded, generly a hunter will keep bugeling to a minimum or only do it for a short time to test the waters and use the cow talk more predomitly.

Crayfin · 07-17-2006, 05:17 PM

in '03 i killed a bull at 25yds and my caller was only 10yds behind me,i shot the bull,he walked off a few yds,i turned around and told my partner to call again,he did and the bull came looking again,arrow #2 was on the way

The "Black Horn Bad Boy" that was awesome

The trick to that bull was working him just long enough to find out what he wanted and then it was like he was on a mission...a suicide mission, but a mission nonetheless. That particular bull would answer a soft cow call but would gather and move uphill when you closed the distance. We got in his lap and hammered him with a bugle and "OH S#@!...HE'S COMING!!!!