Defeciencies of outcasts???

[rob allen]

I have been in an outcast several times and have only noticed bery slight handeling problems, and only when weight is added to the back. I floated one on the skagit/sauk last year and on the Babine this year. I'd guess the heaviest water i was ever in was maybe a class 2.5 if there is such a thing and never once felt in danger or unstable.
If i did get one of my own though i'd make sure to get good oars *cataract* and make sure its a model with good brass oar locks... I am not trying to be arguementative . Please tell us the advantages of a cataraft for a person fishing alone on single day trips????

[rob allen]

oops this was supposed to be a reply to a post down below sorry.

[Osprey]

Now Rob,you don't really want my opion on outcast,
we will not call these catrafts ,
more like fishing platforms
I'm assuming the boat you floated was probably a 8 or 9 footer?
The oar system most boats that size and style use are not even for semi serious water or anything with obstacles or any kind of hydraulics,because the oars are locked in place and the frames tend to torque quite a bit under a load and heaven forbit you stick an oar and get in a jamb
These frames will not accomadate real oar locks with real oars.
I rowed one of these once....once
then I rowed a whitewater boat and said humm what if someone made a white water fishing cat..so I did...
if you decide to fish these outcasts again please wear a vest...just my.02
There are real Cats out there,
Pleas don't even get me started on Bladder tubes oooo yukkk
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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!---
Release all Wild Fish --<'))>><

[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 11-29-2000).]

[sandi]

despite what others - one person - say about Outcast's, they are good and dependable. I've talked with several current owners and they all say they have had no problems taking on heavy water, i.e. upper Sandy, Deshutes, upper Wilson and etc. No, they are probably not the best on the market, but, from what I have heard, are fun and get you where you want to go. My $.02

[Steelheader69]

I don't know you Sandi, so I'm not saying this to "dis" on you. But here is person #2 to tell you that Outcasts are NOT boats for serious whitewatering. If you move up into your 10ft HD maybe. But for most part Osprey is right on. I can also add MUCH more to it (for I've owned them myself). They are not catarafts, but pontoon boats. They are not "stable". If you've actually handled a serious class 4 style boat you'd know the difference. I have a 9 ft Steelheader and a 16 ft Aire Cataraft. Here are the problems with Outcasts. First, they are WAY to narrow framed for the boat. Good for lakes and slow rivers, but get any bucking side to side on boat and you'll have problems. Next is tube design. They are built way to rounded. You have very little tube in water. Thus you won't track very well. They manuever well, but keeping a straight line and keeping steady in choppy water is difficult. Next is the frame. You only have two main cross supports built out of 3/4 inch aluminum at best. Maybe three now on newer models. Mine would buckle on slight class 3's. You hit some serious water and you'll twist frame (and I've seen pictures of people who have). As Sandi has said, she knows people who have used them successfully. They all probably are experienced oarsman. But, only problem is you have NO room to make a mistake (since we're all human we're prone to make some). I almost flipped my Outcast on the Hump, only because the boat was bucking front to back so bad. I had to work the oars doubletime to keep boat on the "up". They aren't bad boats for the money, but if you want one to actually "fish" with you want to go with a higher quality boat. You can't actually "fish" from an outcast. You can get out and fish, or possibly fish from the seat, but you can't stand up and fish. I've caught fish sitting down in the Outcast, but it's hard to play and net a fish while you're sitting down. You also will really sink the boat down in fast water if you anchor up. They just aren't designed for holding in moving water. I bought my Steelheader and that all changed. It's very stable in fast water, I can anchor up and fish standing up with no problems. It easily handles class 3's and up and are very dependable. Plus oarstands can handle traditional oar locks or pins/clips.

I've said this once, and will say again, you get what you pay for in a cataraft. You can get by with a buck's, jw, or outcast, but that's all you're doing is getting by. You're not actually having fun until you get a good quality boat.

Oh yeah, I was gonna say, can you imagine if you upgraded to cataract oars, you'll be paying almost as much for just your oars as you will your boat? I'll say they're good oars, but if you're definitely gonna buy an outcast, just upgrade to bigger carlisle oars. They make them in larger sizes then the standard 6 ft oars.

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[rob allen]

OK all that having been said how much does a good one cost?

[sandi]

a "good" Outcast will run you about $1,100

[Osprey]

A good Cataraft in the 10 to 12 foot class,under $2000,depending on frame design,if you want a 2-man fly fishing frame it might be few hundred more,this is for a set of Wing or Sotar tubes with you're choice of frame designs,plus oars and extras.
They aren't cheap but nothing worth anything is,
Like I've said before.,..If you have 5 Dollar head wear a 5 Dollar helmet...my.02...Os

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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!---
Release all Wild Fish --<'))>><

[Steelheader69]

Well, I'd have to say that Osprey is right on. But, I can give you some insight if you're trying to go as inexpensive as possible but want a quality boat. First you really have to decide if you want just a one man boat or multiperson boat. If you want a one man boat here's the way to go. A "good" Outcast will run you $1100-$1300. If you're going to spend that type of money you can upgrade to a Steelheader. Go to http://www.steelheader.com and check out their boats. For the $$ you can't go wrong. If you have more to spend, then I'd suggest going up to a Wing with custom frame. The top of the line Outcast still doesn't come close to a Steelheader. Since I've owned both so I can testify to that first hand. Also, if you put these boats side by side you can just see the difference in construction. You can also buy package deals in Aire catarafts also. Go to http://www.riverraiders.com and check out their package deals. But as Osprey said, if you have a $5 head, put a $5 hat on it. Trust me, I loved my Outcast, but once I moved up in boats, I really found out what a low end boat it really is. You can get by with one, but that's it. Here's a challenge I'd pose to ALL Outcast owners out there. Take an 8 or 9 footer and put a standing platform on it (under the seat all the way towards foot bars). Now try anchoring in fast water and TRY to stand up and fish. See what happens (Please put on a floatation device if you're going to do this). I'll join you with my 9 ft Steelheader and do the same. We'll see who's wet and who's fishing.

I don't mean to seem cocky, just that I've had quite a few years on the oars of cats so I know what a "good" one is. I just hate to see someone throw away good $$ when they'll upgrade to a better one down the road. Why not make a decent investment now and get a decent boat that will last quite a few years. My Aire is ten years old and still holding up great. My Outcast was 3 years old when I sold it and was bursting at seems and looking shabby. I'd sent tubes in twice for repairs (which I may say Outcast was good about repairing). So, as I have said once and will say many more times (You get what you pay for).



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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[rob allen]

I went to Skookum's website the other day. their boats look great but they had no prices on anything. I emailed a request for such information 3 days ago and still havent heard from them. Do you know approx. how much their boats run??

[Osprey]

you could try calling them,he builds a nice boat for the money,except for the PVC tubes this material does not have a long life span because of UV breakdown,and the abraision resistance(strenght against puttin a hole in the sucker)is like 80% weaker than Urethane...big diff,thus the difference in cost but for a fishing boat this a better deal than a Outcast....my.02-----Os.

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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!---
Release all Wild Fish --<'))>><

[Steelheader69]

I'm not sure on present prices, but I know when I bought my steelheader it was about $1200. I'm not sure how much the bigger boats are since he only had the 9fter.

I do believe Bill has phone numbers on his websight. Give him a call and he'll help you out. It's the best boat you can buy for the money without stepping up to a Wing/Sotar. I've had nothing but good luck with my steelheader. As Osprey had said above, they aren't as tough as the Urethane. But so far I've posted my tubes on sticks, logs, carbodies in river, sharp rocks, and no leaks/holes yet. Osprey will agree with me on this one, if you really check out and see a "good" boat up close, you'll say "bye bye" to the outcasts. You'll actually have a fishing craft, not just a boat to take you from hole to hole.

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[mic4fish]

osprey & steelie69:
I sure am glad you say all these nice things about Outcasts. How's a guy like myself ever supposed to get rid of one?

I used to say life is a little bit better in a Cataraft, but I guess I don't even own a Cat.
Mike

[Steelheader69]

Hey mic4fish, did you want to upgrade to a real cataraft or just selling it for $$$? I think Bill at Skookum (makers of the Steelheader) used to take them as trade-ins. Don't qoute me on that, but I'm sure he used to. A Steelheader is a lot better boat then an Outcast and you'd be safer on the water. Just a thought. I'm not sure if there's any wing/sotar dealers out there that do that, Osprey do you have any ideas?

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[MikeT]

Mike,
If you're selling your Outcast, I have a friend who is looking for a used 10 ft. pontoon boat. If your Outcast is the model 1000 then he'd be interested in seeing it.

BTW, I own a 10 ft. Outcast and have been entirely pleased with it. I bought it for those days when the steelhead rivers are too low for the driftboat. It handles the Kalama, Wilson, Nestucca, etc. just fine. Very manueverable and fun to row. Wouldn't think of taking it through a class 4 rapid, but anyone that would take a 9 or 10 ft. boat through that kind of water probably has, IMO, a "$5 head". <jk>

MikeT

[mic4fish]

Hey Steelie69:
Yea, I'm definately looking to move the Outcast. I personally think the tubes are good, but the weak point is the frame. It isn't cost effective for me to upgrade that frame, cuz then I'm into the unit for way too much money. I'll definately give a call to Skookum products and talk to Bill. I think that Steelheader may be the way to go. I looked at them a couple of years ago at the sportsmen show, the frames seemed pretty sturdy and quite a bit wider than mine. Plus by looking at the pictures on the website it looks like they have a casting platform built right into them. My only problem is I like at least a 10 or 11ft pontoons. Mine are 10ft and my rafting partner has an 11ft wing. It's super nice, it has an awesome frame. It's custom built.
Mike

[Steelheader69]

mic4fish, you're in luck. I know Bill is making larger boats now. He has 12, 14 and I think 10 ft lengths now. So give him a call and see what he has to say. If you do tell him Steelheader69 from here sent you (aka Jerry D.). Go to his website too ( http://www.steelheader.com ) and you can see the different boats he has now. At least you have the 10ft Outcast. It's a better boat, but not nearly as good as a steelheader. Good luck.

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[Osprey]

I have source for Wing tubes,(me)and I can build you a custom frame,We'll design it and build it ,nothin like a custom frame to meet all you're needs,all frames are simular in basic design,I must have looked at dozens before I built mine, still one if a kind check out all the sites,some of the larger whitewater dealers like Cascade or even try Andy&Bax,might give you atrade in?I'm not sure what brand tubes they are selling now I think Momentum? heavy hypolon ugggg,keep looking we'll try and help you out,have you rowed you're friends wing,what kind of frame is it,if you sell youre's move up spend the bucks if you can ,you won't regret it...happy shopping...Os


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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!---
Release all Wild Fish --<'))>><

[This message has been edited by Osprey (edited 12-04-2000).]

[mic4fish]

Osprey:
Heck yea, I've rowed my friends wing, That's how I got hooked on Catarafts in the first place. I'm not sure of the make of his frame. It was custom built down in California. He bought it used from a guy up here.He paid around 1100 for it. What a steal, huh?! I would be very interested in having you build me one, but I'm in such a jam with that Outcast. Maybe you could email me some rough figures on a frame.I don't need anything spectacular, just something very stong and stable and at the same time lightweight as possible, cuz I run my cat alot by myself.
Thanks, Mike

[rob allen]

Osprey.. you mentioned that you build your own frames?? Is it possible to build a dual purpose frame? say one that could convery from having a fisherman standing bothe front and back with some sort of bracing for them.. to a standard frame that would accomodate gear in the back and two people sitting up front. ro would a person need two frames?

[Steelheader69]

Well, to get what you want, you have to have at LEAST a 16ft, or go to the extreme and get an 18ft cat. Actually, I basically have what you're looking for. My frames are whitewater frames, not fishing frames. I bought the boat from a whitewater guide. I have my rowers module and cargo module. If I want to whitewater I take off seat attachments off cargo module and put it behind the rower module. When I fish I put cargo module up front and attach amount of seats I need. It works good, but I'll warn you. When you have multi frames you waste valuable room. It's almost better to have a fishing frame, then just a floating/whitewater frame. I want a passenger/rower/passenger frame myself. I come into the problem of room. My 16ft can handle it, but I'm stressing extreme of room on my cat. I'm gonna have Osprey make my next frame, it'll be a one piecer and probably 9-10 feet long. You can do what you want, you'll just need to either by a 16/18ft boat. Any smaller and you'll be overloaded. Your 12-14 ft'rs are good for two person, but 3/4 is a bit small.

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You haven't lived til you've rowed a cataraft. Friends don't let friends run Outcasts.

[Osprey]

Rob,in answer to you're question yes but by the sounds of it this cat would need to be at least a 14-16 footer and wide enough to accomadate 2 people in front of the rower,most 3 men frames are set up with 1 in front and 1 behind with the rower in between,you could acheive this by going to a moduler frame which is basicly ,a set of smaller frames that you can rearange as you see fit,you just add a removable thigh brace.
If you can imagine it and draw it we can build it,probably just take a six pack of Redhook to get the details worked out ....Os
ST-69 you have any input on this considering you a big cat kinda guy


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Row quietly and fish a Cataraft !!---
Release all Wild Fish --<'))>><