Looking for trigger work on my AR15

[24 on/ 48 off]

New gun, hard trigger. Any suggestions?

--spud--

[Quaka Wacka]

I ordered my bushmaster with the two stage and had it turned down to about 3.5 lbs. What make is yours? There are several aftermarkets available that will fit most ARs. And some of the factory triggers can be adjusted as well.

[adobe wall]

the Bushmaster two stage adjustable trigger has the single worst reputation of any AR type adjustable trigger. I do not know anyone who has managed to go more than 1500 rounds without a catastrophic failure. By "catastrophic" I mean a complete loss of first stage. Sometimes the trigger cannot be pulled hard enough to fire the weapon, sometimes it becomes a hair trigger.

I own a Bushmaster CMP model, earned half of my distinguished points with it. I can look back in my gun log and tell you exactly when it failed, but I believe it was at around 700 rounds. My two shooting partners who also owned the same rifles also lost their triggers. My experience has been that they are exceedingly difficult to bring back into spec. I've got the remains of all three triggers in my reloading bench. My old shooting club used to participate in the Bushmaster club rifle program through the CMP- I know of at least a dozen trigger failures. I can also tell you that Bushmaster will not acknowledge a problem with this horrible product. Generally the only recourse is to either replace the trigger or return the rifle. Returning the rifle to Bushmaster for service will only prolong the agony as the trigger will again fail within 1500 rounds.

The Geiselle is top of the line, Jewell a distant second, and for a two stage non adjustable the rock river is pretty darn good. For about $35 extra or so, John Holliger (White Oak Precision) will tune that nonadjustable trigger. It's money well spent.

The Jewell and the Geiselle are both user friendly and can be adjusted or tuned in the field/on the firing line. The Bushmaster two stage, and it's cousin the Compass Lake trigger, are obsolete designs that will require replacement.

jmho, aw

[Hunt'nFish]

Yep, what Adobe said. He speeks the truth. Money spent on a good adj trigger group is money spent once and well.

I can manually adjust an AR trigger but I hate it, it's touchy business. Mine is sitting at 2.5lbs and it took me FOREVER to get it there w/o screwing it up. A couple hundred $$spent on a good adjustible is the way to go. I too like the 2 stage style.
Hunt'nFish

[24 on/ 48 off]

Thanks, fellas.

It is a brand new model made by Smith and Wesson.

M&P15 click here

I definately don't want to do it myself. I need someone who can back off the stock 7 lb trigger.

--spud--

[adobe wall]

you've got, what, a single stage non-adjustable? You're out of luck. A 'smith can smooth it a bit but about the only "adjustment" is by stoning the engagement surfaces and bending springs.

For $115, you can buy a tuned two stage trigger Rock River from Holliger, that's the best deal going. Drop in fit, it's right. The Jewell is a couple hundred, give or take. An untuned two stage Rock River is $60-$90 depending on how you buy.

Two stage triggers tend to feel much lighter than they really are. You can go with 3.5 lb first stage and a 1 lb second- it's a very safe 4.5 lb trigger but only feels like it's 1 lb.

The Jewell is probably the toughest to install, but it's still well within the ability of most folks. The Geiselle two stage is a no brainer, as is the non adjustable Rock River.

Have put in a bunch of Jewells, that was the hottest thing going before the Geiselle.

AR's are fairly easy to service, if you were in the neighborhood I'd be glad to help with an install.

regards, aw

[Quaka Wacka]

AW- I hadn't heard that about the Bushmasters. I'll have to keep an eye on mine. And replace it with something else when it quits working correctly.

[Hawk]

The Geiselle is top of the line, Jewell a distant second, and for a two stage non adjustable the rock river is pretty darn good.

Where can I buy the Geiselle and the Jewell triggers, and what does each on cost?

[SR1 5]

I installed a JP Enterprise trigger on my AR-10 and love it.It feels like a Remington 700 trigger. If nothing else they have a cool web site for AR modifications and you should check them out. The Knights Armamant trigger is a two stage trigger that is good but is nearly $200.00

[adobe wall]

Not wanting to violate the user agreement, I won't post links. Creedmoor sports for the Geiselle, White Oak Precision for the tuned Rock River trigger, and Midway USA for the Jewell. Web search any of them and you'll find it.

[bassbum]

cant beat the rock river national match 2 stage, its awsome

[goforchrome]

I have the RRA Natl match two-stage and have never wished it were lighter or smoother.
It just works and works well.
I think my next 1911 will be Rock River, too.
I like their pricing compared to some of the bigger names, too.

[Hawk]

cant beat the rock river national match 2 stage, its awsome

Is "national match" what the "NM" stands on the Rock River website? I've been confused about that for some time (obviously I'm new to this AR-15 thing)?

What does "National Match" or "NM" mean?

[bassbum]

hawk, yes NM is national match.

[Hawk]

hawk, yes NM is national match.

Is it just a name, or does it signify better quality or something like that?

[adobe wall]

it signifies that the part or the rifle meets the specifications set by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship for a service rifle (or pistol) used in Excellence-in-Competition matches.

The term NM is applicable only to the M1 Garand, M14, M16 or civilian equivalent. It's pretty much restricted to the stock, sights, trigger, and handguard float tube (in the case of the M16), op rod (M1 and M14), and op rod guide (M14).

NM sights are usually 1/2 or 1/4 moa adjustments, whereas battle sights are usually 1 moa. A NM front sight blade is usually a bit narrower but that is a bit of a misleading term as some of the Army MTU shooters use a very wide front sight blade.

National Match is unique to these three rifles, although the parts may also be used on more exotic NRA match rifles. In NRA competition, pretty much anything goes as is shown by the Tubb 2000.

without getting into a long dissertation, the National Matches at Camp Perry are actually a series of matches, some held by the NRA and some by the Civilian Marksmanship Program. CMP legal rifles can be used in NRA matches but not vise-versa.

As a means of identifying one's area of interest, a competitive highpower shooter generally describes him or herself as being either a "match rifle shooter" or "service rifle shooter". NM would be the type of rifle used by the service rifle shooter.

The parts are generally made to tighter tolerances that standard GI issue parts. On the M14, a NM op rod guide is tighter than a standard issue one. NM triggers must be 4 1/2 lbs minimum weight (total between the two stages) although people using NM triggers that aren't competitive shooters often adjust them lighter.

Other legal NM modifications that aren't true "parts" but rather accurizing techniques include glass bedding on the M1 and 14, and unitizing the gas system on a -14.

hope this helps, I think perhaps I muddied the waters a bit.

[Hawk]

Thanks AW. That clarifies it very well.

[adobe wall]

My Compass Lake Engineering National Match AR15.

[Bob Barthlow]

My Compass Lake Engineering National Match AR15.

...WOW!!! great going!

[Swift Fly Guy]

"tuned two stage trigger Rock River from Holliger, that's the best deal going. Drop in fit, it's right."

The very best for the money and quality, John Holliger is at the top of the High Power game and he will tune it to your specs (lbs.). I just put one in and it is the smoothest no creep trigger. Don't be afraid to do it yourself it comes with very and I stress very simple instructions. PM for more info you will not be disappointed in any way.

[leftym4]

i like the rra not that i like rra but i like their triggers its a knock off of the armalite 2 stage but cost less

i used the higher end JP trigger it was hard to install the first time and seemed flimsy the rra is more solid and very simple to install takes a few minutes

[lucky2]

Get a Jewell 2 stage. Easy to install, and a dream to shoot with!
Just my $.02