ACL injuries in dogs

duckdog310 · 04-19-2006, 08:50 PM

My 10 month old Lab, Gunny, has a nagging injury to his right rear leg. He initially hurt it running wagon wheel drills out at the trainer's. Now, after a workout, he comes up lame on it for hours, favoring it for about a day. The initial vet exam yielded the suggestion it was/may be a partial or complete tear of his right rear ACL. He goes in for confirmatory x-rays tomorrow morning.

First. . .I'd just like to rant/vent and say "This sucks!" At ten months old, the only care in the world Gunny and I should share should revolve around whether he's picking up on doubles/triples and how his handling is coming along!

:grin: Now, we're looking at some big problems.

My question is this: What's the long-term prognosis for an injury like this? How is it treated? How successful, generally, is treatment? Can I look forward to many seasons of hard hunting or am I possibly looking at retiring a gundog well before its due? Anyone gone through this?

Thanks for the help.
Matt

happybrew · 04-19-2006, 09:13 PM

Interestingly enough, I went to a seminar put on by a physician who did his initial research on knee injuries in dogs, then moved onto dissections of frozen human cadaver knees and took extensive pictures showing the various structures. Great knee surgeon.

But if there is an ACL tear, there are two options. If it's a partial tear, time may make it better, but not completely heal it. Risk of reinjury is high. If it's a complete tear, the only option is surgery followed by re-strengthening of the limb.

I don't know what a vet might do, but if they do ACL reconstructions on dogs, you are looking at many months until full recovery, but I would imagine a good prognosis. Be prepared to open your wallet wide if you want it done. A lot depends upon the skill and experience of the surgeon, and I don't imagine a lot of vets do ACL reconstructions on a frequent basis.

Sorry about your dog. I hope it all works out for you.

happybrew

SteelheadNympher · 04-19-2006, 09:19 PM

Sorry to hear about your dog. I experienced a similar event last year with our 3 year old male yellow lab, which happens to be the best waterfowl dog I've ever had the privilege of sharing a blind with. He jumped off an icy fence stile and got hung upside down from his left rear leg. Completely tore both front and rear tendons in his knee. My options were a $1000 opp or amputation. We struggled with the decision, but were given reasonable assurances that state of the art reconstructive surgery could restore most of the function of his leg.

Lots of money, but well worth it. He hunted hard all season under tough conditions and performed great. Some stiffness after long days, but meds seemed to work well to keep joint lubricated and pain to minumum. Overall very pleased, but expect his hunting career will be cut short 2-3 years.

His surgery consisted of cutting into the joint, removing torn ligaments, and essentially lacing the joint together with high test (100 lb) monofilament. About 6 months of personal rehab followed. Aside from adverse effects above, the joint is somewhat larger than the non-unjury leg which can be expected due to scar tissue.

Good luck. Hope this helps you.

scottishsetter · 04-19-2006, 09:22 PM

You might look into OSU Vet. school.
We're going thru similar dog injury and used a Dr. Howard in Raleigh Hills Clinic by referal. Good luck.

happybrew · 04-19-2006, 09:45 PM

Well, that was a good surgery, it sounds like. I guess they can do different things with dogs than they can with people. Sounds like a great outcome.

happybrew

Washington Hunter · 04-19-2006, 09:55 PM

My golden retriever had the same problem when she was about 4 years old. She had the surgery done for just under $500 and took about 6 months to fully recover. Hunted her up until about the age of 12 with not much problem, although she did have arthritis in that knee that got progressively worse.

duckdog310 · 04-19-2006, 10:20 PM

Thanks so far for the info provided. I'm not too worried about the $$'s quite yet. My main concern with Gunny's quality of life and his future ability to hunt. We'll see what the x-rays show tomorrow.

Duckwheat · 04-20-2006, 06:10 AM

I have had two Acls on my yellow lab. There are two procedures. The first a ligament repair, from what I learned is marginally successful. It is cheap (500-600).

I went the TLPO. About 1,600 each. A Doc in Ketchum Idaho did my dog. How many they have done is directly related to their degree of success.

You keep them on a leash for about 3 months then cut them loose.

The first one is 3 years old. The later about 6 months. So far it is working good.

Duckwheat

onstep · 04-20-2006, 06:17 AM

There is a doc in gresham that does a lot of ACL repairs. I'll see if I can get a name. You may also want to give Dr. Caulkins @ Wilsonville Veterinary a call. He works with a ton of sporting dogs and in my estimation gets the fact that these dogs are athletes. Good luck. Lots of dogs have this type of surgery and come back fine. A very well known FC (Creek Robber aka Auggie) in washington had a similar problem last year and has returned to full form.

thehunt · 04-20-2006, 06:19 AM

Drake, "The Lean Mean Retrieving Machine" had the same problem. His muscles develped so quickly that the ligaments couldn't keep up. After the surgery, and 6 months of rehad, he blew out the other one. One more surgery, and long rehab process later, he became the best damn dog I have ever hunted over. Good luck with it, I'll have my dad pm you about what he and Drake went through.

Beamerfish · 04-20-2006, 07:29 AM

Check with veterinary specialists in Clackamas. ACL repairs are not cheap but are now routine and the prognosis for full recovery is excellent.

Hunt'nFish · 04-20-2006, 08:24 AM

Good read guys. Interesting experiences. It sounds like the only issue is the $$$, but hey I'd give up a new gun purchase for my pal any day.

A question,.... A common theme here seems to be younger dogs in training. I wonder if in our eagerness to get them ready for the hunt we maybe pushing them too hard too fast, or perhaps the training may not be on a daily basis but rather hard on the weekends. What info have any of you gotten from the vet's and surgeons as far as preventative medicine. In other words how can we minimize the risks during training?
I have a 7 month old male that is so eagar to "play" that he bolts out cold at full speed. After reading this it makes me wonder if I should warm him up & streatch him out a bit with progressive retrieves. I know some injuries simply can't be avoided, but what can be done to minimize the risks?
Hunt'nFish

El-Kabong · 04-20-2006, 08:32 AM

my newf tore through both ACLs (1 at a time thankfully) when she was 3 and 4 yrs old. Dr. Doug Gribskov at TV Animal Hospital (I am sure of the Dr. name, but not the facility name) did both surgeries, the recovery is kinda tough, but manageable (tougher with a #130 dog in a house with stairs in and out) she is now 12 and the knees are doing just fine.

IMO MSM, Chondrotin, blah blah stuff is a waste of money. From what I recall, if it is torn it will not heal on its own. Eventually it will tear through. the plus side is that the tear itself does not appear to cause any pain, certainly the dog is not comfortable after the surgery.

Another thing to consider is that once 1 leg starts to go, the animal begins to put more strain onto the good leg, hence the longer you wait for repair the first leg makes it more likely that the other ACL will also tear.

EK

Washington Hunter · 04-20-2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

A question,.... A common theme here seems to be younger dogs in training. I wonder if in our eagerness to get them ready for the hunt we maybe pushing them too hard too fast, or perhaps the training may not be on a daily basis but rather hard on the weekends. What info have any of you gotten from the vet's and surgeons as far as preventative medicine. In other words how can we minimize the risks during training?
I have a 7 month old male that is so eagar to "play" that he bolts out cold at full speed. After reading this it makes me wonder if I should warm him up & streatch him out a bit with progressive retrieves. I know some injuries simply can't be avoided, but what can be done to minimize the risks?
Hunt'nFish

A couple things I can say in regards to this...don't allow your dog to jump down from the tailgate of your truck, especially when not warmed up yet, and don't let your dog get overweight. When my Golden tore her knee she was 82 pounds when she should have only been 65.

Amahnee · 04-20-2006, 08:48 AM

My Lab blew his out last spring and I took him to three different vets and to NW Vet Specialists in Clackamas. They all told me the same thing. The specialist who wanted to perform the TPLO surgery which is the latest thing in fix-its was gonna run nearly four thousand dollars. After discussing my options with the other three vets and my vet in Bend, I decided to go with the conventional ligament repair because I was told that the TPLO option was not really any better than the conventional repair and I am glad I did.

I had the surgery done at Companion in Gresham for $329.00. After all was said and done I was into the procedure for about $650 but really about $1200 with all the consultations and second and thrid and fourth opinions.

I would very much recommend Companion in Gresham. They are great doctors, great to work with, and won't kill your wallet. They do about a dozen of these surgeries a week.

Luke was back to normal after about four months and sprinting close to 25MPH. He had a complete tear to his left rear ACL. He is good as new today.

Quote:

IMO MSM, Chondrotin, blah blah stuff is a waste of money. From what I recall, if it is torn it will not heal on its own. Eventually it will tear through. the plus side is that the tear itself does not appear to cause any pain, certainly the dog is not comfortable after the surgery.

Another thing to consider is that once 1 leg starts to go, the animal begins to put more strain onto the good leg, hence the longer you wait for repair the first leg makes it more likely that the other ACL will also tear.

Absolutely

! Don't wait. It will not heal itself.

goforchrome · 04-20-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

My Lab blew his out last spring and I took him to three different vets and to NW Vet Specialists in Clackamas. They all told me the same thing. The specialist who wanted to perform the TPLO surgery which is the latest thing in fix-its was gonna run nearly four thousand dollars. After discussing my options with the other three vets and my vet in Bend, I decided to go with the conventional ligament repair because I was told that the TPLO option was not really any better than the conventional repair and I am glad I did.

I had the surgery done at Companion in Gresham for $329.00. After all was said and done I was into the procedure for about $650 but really about $1200 with all the consultations and second and thrid and fourth opinions.

I would very much recommend Companion in Gresham. They are great doctors, great to work with, and won't kill your wallet. They do about a dozen of these surgeries a week.

Luke was back to normal after about four months and sprinting close to 25MPH. He had a complete tear to his left rear ACL. He is good as new today.

Quote:

IMO MSM, Chondrotin, blah blah stuff is a waste of money. From what I recall, if it is torn it will not heal on its own. Eventually it will tear through. the plus side is that the tear itself does not appear to cause any pain, certainly the dog is not comfortable after the surgery.

Another thing to consider is that once 1 leg starts to go, the animal begins to put more strain onto the good leg, hence the longer you wait for repair the first leg makes it more likely that the other ACL will also tear.

Absolutely

! Don't wait. It will not heal itself.

We had the simple ligament repair surgery done and the outcome was perfect...5 yrs ago and this dog goes 100mph all the time.
Expense was the same as above.
Good luck.

duckdog310 · 04-20-2006, 02:00 PM

Well. . .first the good news.

The hips look like a million bucks. Vet said if the dog was two years old he'd end up with an excellent OFA rating (he guessed). The knee looked okay with a bit more play in the cap that might/might not be a problem farther down the road.

Now the bad news. . .

Gunny has abnormalities of his sacrum and first several caudal verts. His sacrum looks "canted" where it comes into connection with his pelvis. I always wondered why his tail looked a bit crooked, but figured it was part of his boyish charm!

The vet said since the deformity was far enough down the spine (and void of actual spinal cord) it "probably" wouldn't be a substantial issue. That said, he strongly urged (and I completely agreed) Gunny's genetics be "nipped" so as to not pass this obvious genetic abnormality on to future little Gunnys.

I'm bummed I can't use Gunny to breed, as he's such a sweetheart and has drive coming out of his ears. I am grateful, however, the prognosis was moderately good that Gunny will lead a healthy, duck-filled life.

Thanks again for the info.
Matt