Tagging Orange Fish

skein · 04-15-2006, 10:23 AM

Enclosed is a link to a VERY SUCCESSFUL tagging program that has been going on since 1974, and something we should look at here on the west coast.

ODFW does not want us to do this, but we don't want ODFW to close off our fishing waters, so I'd say we're about even. Plus, we are putting forth a lot of effort to stay away from potentially impacted areas, and learn release techniques that have shown a lot of promise. In short, we have shown good faith by doing our part, so it's time to think about taking it to the next level.

Read this, think about it, and let's have a discussion. Perhaps OCEAN would be willing to arrange some training, and make the tags available to those of us who want to give it a try.

I'll donate the first $100 toward the tag and applicator purchase.

Link to Successful Tagging Program

Skein

HOGGEMIN · 04-15-2006, 10:53 AM

WOW this sounds awsome maybe we could get help from RFA or Oregon Anglers to team up with OCEAN.

How about some help from the guys on this board that work for ODFW to help pitch this to the headquarters and maybe we can make this a go.

What would the repercussions be if we just funded this ourselfs and kept records with out ODFW's knowledge?

This sounds like a great start to a better knowlege about relese methods and survival rates.

Mr. Fisherman · 04-15-2006, 11:26 AM

This sounds great.
As part of the workshop, demonstrations for releasing fish at depth and an introduction to the tools used could be provided.

I would support this program.

wak'm&stak'm · 04-15-2006, 01:30 PM

Jim I believe you will find another tagging program in our own back yard.
Geez...probably 15 years ago (where does the time go)...the odfw had asked for fisherman to help with sturgeon tagging. It actually became a contest between lots of guys i know, they were releasing keepers just to get their tags in the water.

It takes very little on behalf of the state to monitor such a program, especially now with the internet and all.

Once shown the tagging process, and how to report location and other needed information they may want. They could give each tagger a password in to the sight for new entries, and also allow for viewing of history.

THE whole thing is very simple..........

I will put up the second hundred dollars.

The thought of catching a tagged YE that survived is just to much. The odds of catching one twice is probably huge, since the blackbass tagging gang has tagged probably 2000 and never the same one twice.

If they want our locations, then the tagging program is their answer....prefect data.

ron m · 04-15-2006, 01:42 PM

Great idea, but there is a catch (pun intended)! I don't have time to look now, but I'm pretty sure the regs say any multilation of fish, including tagging, is prohibited. So, we'd need some type of special dispensation as a beginning step -- if my memory is correct. That's not to say we couldn't get said dispensation, but we'd need to be well organized and have a definite plan and funds if we want to convince ODFW to give us the permit or whatever is needed. I'll also kick in a hunnert if we can get this going and it is a project that I personally think THE OCEAN could do and it would get more folks involved. No reason we couldn't tag ANY rockfish we release, we'd just need to be careful that folks didn't start catching any just to tag and release them.

Also, I think we need to start asking ODFW for results to date on their barotrauma study.

ron m

Metal Manipulator · 04-16-2006, 07:33 AM

Last years convention had speakers on barotrauma and they showed that a very high percentage of fish taken back to the 60 ft. depth survive. I am thinking that some one needs to develop an attatchment devise that desolves in a pre- determined time. These need to be given to commercial boats the catch these fish as by catch. This would be the only effective way for these guy's to release these fish without costing so much in labor. This would save their seasons allowing them a lower kill rate on protected species. I think I will do some testing on materials this year. If I can find the material that will work I will carry them on the boat. The only place that I haven't caught yellow eye is at the ranch and since I don't like to travel the extra hour ( my boat is not speedy like the Black Rocket) I will usualy fish the Rock pile or other points closer to port.

skein · 04-16-2006, 08:42 AM

That's a really interesting concept, WetFly. Let me know if I can help. I'll keep my eye out for "dissolveables" too. Wrap 'em up and toss 'em back. I really like that.

Skein

Nordic Sun · 04-16-2006, 09:22 AM

Wet Fly
Here is a web site that sells time release devices for crab traps. They may be a good resouce to develope faster time release disposable devices.
Bob

http://www.blueoceantackle.com/trap_accessories.htm

skein · 04-16-2006, 10:03 AM

What about a pressure activated device instead of a dissolving one? Might actually be simpler and cheaper, plus a dissolving device might break down during handling or storage on the boat. A pressure device would have no such problem.

Robin, your idea, regardless of what finally works, is really great!

Skein

edsr · 04-16-2006, 10:07 AM

I have been reading this thread trying to figure out how to respond. If there is anything that OCEAN can do to educate, train, whatever, we will.

Guys, OCEAN IS US!

IMHO we have been let down by the scientific community. If there is good sound information about releasing fish it has not been shared with us and if there isn't, why not? This is not a new problem.

Please correct me if I am wrong but as I review the list of fishes in the SC tagging program, they are, for the most part not rock fishes that dwell at great depths, with perhaps one or two exceptions. Do those reef fish species listed respond in the same way to barotrauma as our rock fishes?

We could sure use some input here from ODFW biologists and scientists or any other knowledgeable icthyologist with experience in this field.

One other thing to interject here. Like doctors, we must "first, do no harm".

edsr

Metal Manipulator · 04-16-2006, 10:41 AM

jopressure activating devise? A small ballon that srinks to release when it reaches 60 plus feet. How about a sugar pill that desolves in 10 minutes. Mono fishing line with a pill on the end. Thread the line through the lip and attatch to the weight send them back down. With a weight of the proper material that won't offend the enviro's and were set.

skein · 04-16-2006, 10:44 AM

Ed, I understand what you're saying and I agree; why has the "ODFW data well" dried up, either way?

As for harming the fish, as recently as last year we were sticking needles in them trying to hit the swim bladder, and pressing on them to release the air. Probably not in the "no harm" category, but we were willing to try anything.

ODFW tells us that an orange fish caught at depth is dead. Inserting a tag that has proven to be non-lethal should not effect their stance one way or another.

But if, IF we caught a YE or other deep dweller WITH A TAG IN IT, it would tell us something we can only guess at now. We have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Skein

Snakebite · 04-16-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Ed, I understand what you're saying and I agree; why has the "ODFW data well" dried up, either way?

As for harming the fish, as recently as last year we were sticking needles in them trying to hit the swim bladder, and pressing on them to release the air. Probably not in the "no harm" category, but we were willing to try anything.

ODFW tells us that an orange fish caught at depth is dead. Inserting a tag that has proven to be non-lethal should not effect their stance one way or another.

But if, IF we caught a YE or other deep dweller WITH A TAG IN IT, it would tell us something we can only guess at now. We have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

Skein

Yeah right. They're hiding information from you. That's why it's on their WEBSITE

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/research/

edsr · 04-16-2006, 11:12 AM

Skein, with you 100%.

I think that you will agree that our first obligation is to STAY AWAY FROM AND to MOVE off of them so any rescue attempts will be on a very limited incidental catch. We're between a rock and a hard place, especially when we don't have good data.

edsr

skein · 04-16-2006, 11:14 AM

Great link, Snakebite, thanks for posting it.

I, for one, didn't know it was there. Any of you OCEAN members know about this one?

Skein

edsr · 04-16-2006, 11:19 AM

Snakebite - Thank you for the link. Do you know any others?

edsr

skein · 04-16-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

To estimate longer-term survival, we are also working on a project to acoustically tag yelloweye rockfish following hook and line capture, release them using recompression techniques, and then track them with acoustic receivers and an ROV to evaluate condition after several weeks.

Exactly!!! Good stuff!

Snakebite, do you know who is spearheading this research so we can contact them and keep abreast of their timelines and findings?

Skein

Snakebite · 04-16-2006, 11:26 AM

The MRP home page

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/MRP/

There's tabs just below the big photo on top for different projects and such. Not very easy to navigate to from the main ODFW page.

ron m · 04-16-2006, 01:45 PM

Lets not turn this into knocking ODFW, I think they are our allies for this cause. I read about the barotrauma research program preliminary data sometime last year and as I recall, different species had sometimes very different survival rates. This info was from the pressure tanks study they started and didn'[t involve very many fish. ODFW probably hasn't put more of their results on their website or published it 'cause they are scientists and want to get it as right as they can before putting the info out. My guess is they are also very busy, I don't think their staff is very large, they have a fair amount of research going, and they still have to do the "fishery management" issues to do. Plus they must be under a lot of pressure because of the fish politics that have been in the news lately.

I really hope they get the $ they need to continue and hopefully expand the study with tagging and then monitoring with the ROV. We'd all be pleased fi it shows YE survive well after being released at depth. I for one wouldn't mind a requirement that all boats carry a barotrauma release device, I think not using one is unethical and unsportsman-like behavior.

ron m

Mr. Fisherman · 04-16-2006, 04:18 PM

I caught a Yelloweye 2 years ago that had a healed vent (where the swim bladder had been poked and vented)
I vented it again and it swam back with vigor. This was at about 200 to 220 feet deep.

A tagging program sounds good to me...

blubeast · 04-16-2006, 06:57 PM

Snakebite, while it's nice to see ODFW posting info on their projects, this is the same barotrauma info presented at the 2005 Salty Dogs meeting in Newport - nothing new, in fact this webpage states: "The following is a partial list of MRP research objectives and projects in progress in 2005." It's OLD NEWS!

As critical as the rockfish issue will be this and in future years, it's a shame they have not provided more timely results as to what works and what does not...

Skein, I cannot speak for all of OCEAN, but personally, I would like to see tagging be researched and promoted by OCEAN in the future. Right now our push is to get the fish id cards laminated and distributed so to help fishers better identify their catch... this should be accomplished in the next couple of weeks, then hopefully we can begin researching this.

Thanks for bringing this back up for review.