Great Long range shooting article

[Ryan Pultz]

Click here

While I do not think 1000 yard shots at elk are a great thing if you are confident in your gun and know what you are doing it is possible. it is still a great article on long range shooting even if you are doing it for kicks and giggles. rp

[traks44]

Those have been around for quite some time, They have alot of great info though!!!

[adobe wall]

Every time I hear about the latest, greatest long range caliber and one of these articles, I just cringe.

Anyone on this board is welcome to PM me and shoot at tri-county with me as my guest. Try some real, 600 yard shooting (which is light years easier than 1000) and you'll see what I mean.

I can absolutely hammer a target- earned NRA's highest classification (and did it with iron sights) but I can tell you that even if I shoot 9 X's in a row I can still lose track of the wind and shoot a 7. On a live animal, throwing a round out of the 9 ring on a 600 yard target would be a gut shot.

We don't have wind flags available when we're hunting, either, and 99.9% of hunters can't read mirage through a spotting scope. The remaining .01% that can almost never will have a spotting scope set up to take advantage of the mirage, and even then, it's probably going to be a bit dark or rainy so it's irrelevant.

I stopped taking long shots at game animals once I started competitive shooting. The wind is just too unforgiving, and it isn't fair to the animal. Long range shooting is darn fun, but it needs to be limited to the target range and varmints.

300 yards on big game animals, that's it for me.

jmho, aw

[billc_sbio]

Every time I hear about the latest, greatest long range caliber and one of these articles, I just cringe.

Anyone on this board is welcome to PM me and shoot at tri-county with me as my guest. Try some real, 600 yard shooting (which is light years easier than 1000) and you'll see what I mean.

I can absolutely hammer a target- earned NRA's highest classification (and did it with iron sights) but I can tell you that even if I shoot 9 X's in a row I can still lose track of the wind and shoot a 7. On a live animal, throwing a round out of the 9 ring on a 600 yard target would be a gut shot.

We don't have wind flags available when we're hunting, either, and 99.9% of hunters can't read mirage through a spotting scope. The remaining .01% that can almost never will have a spotting scope set up to take advantage of the mirage, and even then, it's probably going to be a bit dark or rainy so it's irrelevant.

I stopped taking long shots at game animals once I started competitive shooting. The wind is just too unforgiving, and it isn't fair to the animal. Long range shooting is darn fun, but it needs to be limited to the target range and varmints.

300 yards on big game animals, that's it for me.

jmho, aw

Amen Brother!

I keep saying 300 yd.s IS a Long Shot on Elk!

Many won't listen!

[skein]

Adobe, you're right on the money.

I've found that either you find long-range shooting addicting, or you soon grow frustrated and give it up, with about 90% of us in the latter category. I really enjoy shooting at long-ranges, but simply don't have the equipment to make it happen. My hunting rifles, which I have tuned the best I can, are simply not up to the task.

Punching a hole in an animal's paunch just because I "thought" I could hit it is not what I really consider an option.

If I can get within 600 yards, I can get closer.

Skein

[traks44]

If you can see them with the naked eye they are to close!

[DAB]

Every time I hear about the latest, greatest long range caliber and one of these articles, I just cringe.

Anyone on this board is welcome to PM me and shoot at tri-county with me as my guest. Try some real, 600 yard shooting (which is light years easier than 1000) and you'll see what I mean.

I can absolutely hammer a target- earned NRA's highest classification (and did it with iron sights) but I can tell you that even if I shoot 9 X's in a row I can still lose track of the wind and shoot a 7. On a live animal, throwing a round out of the 9 ring on a 600 yard target would be a gut shot.

We don't have wind flags available when we're hunting, either, and 99.9% of hunters can't read mirage through a spotting scope. The remaining .01% that can almost never will have a spotting scope set up to take advantage of the mirage, and even then, it's probably going to be a bit dark or rainy so it's irrelevant.

I stopped taking long shots at game animals once I started competitive shooting. The wind is just too unforgiving, and it isn't fair to the animal. Long range shooting is darn fun, but it needs to be limited to the target range and varmints.

300 yards on big game animals, that's it for me.

jmho, aw

I agree compleetly.When the wife and I were shooting competively at 50 feet indoors with 22 longrifle we shot a few outdoor 100 yd matches with 22 long rifle. I am here to say even at 100 yds you have to dope the wind when shooting for score with 22 longrifle.
All hunters should look at a good set of exterier balastic charts for the rifle he uses and see how much the wind will deflect a bullet at diferent wind speed and yardages and then figure in human factor and a killing shot turns in to a miss or a lost and wounded animal if you don't dope the wind correctly. How many of us can judge how fast the wind is blowing when we are in the feild hunting, not many. All ya got to do is the math and you can see what problems arise when shooting at longer ranges.
DAB

[traks44]

The reason I have gotten so into "long range hunting" are for a couple reasons. I LOVE new gear, all the specialized reloading equipment, rangefinders, scopes, Kesterals, etc. etc. I love any excuse to buy new gear :smile:. There are many times and places over here that call for a long shot. Actually there are more long shots than close shots, I would even say 250 yards was a close shot where I hunt. The bull I killed was at 405 yards, I would have NEVER had a chance if I wasnt capable at that range. He had 50 cows with him and there was nothin between him and I. Anyone who has hunted elk long knows you only get one chance at the big boys. Another reason: there are places you cant hunt because the timber is so thick and steep they would know you were there before you got within a quarter mile, this is the primary reason we are building now because of places like that where you CANNOT close the distance without spooking them. I am not promoting the useless hurling of lead at elk a mile away, but for those who choose to do it the right way and invest in the proper gear there is nothin wrong with killing an elk at 800-1000 yards. Given the weather etc has to be perfect and mirage and such but there is minimal mirage in the morning and in the fall period. For those who wont call it "hunting" or me a hunter at all, thats fine. Consistantly killing at Long range is no easy task and like some of you said its not for everybody, but dont bang on the guys who put in the time with the proper equipment.

[skein]

No, no, Trak, you are the perfect example of what we're saying. You have spent the time and money to put together a rifle/scope setup to do it right, and you have the rest of the equipment needed, like a good rangefinder and spotting scope. In addition, you will put the time in to make sure you know how to use all those pieces together, and what your rig is capable of. But you have to admit, you're in the minority. What you're talking about simply can't be done on a consistant basis by the average hunter with the average hunting rifle.

The only thing you need is to invite me over to see your setup and let me spot some of those long shots for you. :grin:

BTW, how's the knee?

Skein

[traks44]

haha ok ok, someone had to step in and defend the long range junkies!

skein, the knee is gettin better, All my friends are killin me on sheds, one of my buddies brought up two sets with the biggest at 360. :depressed:, They picked up like 22 freshies and the same for older ones, they saw 14 bulls that hadnt dropped an were headed back today. SOMEONE JUST KILL ME NOW!!!!
I actualy just got back from a little drive and viewed about 10 bulls still packin I actually spotted a couple antlers but I cant walk up any of those hills!!!

I dont know how much more I can take.......

[hrbassin]

With the laptops and the rangefinders and all the tablerest stuff, are you really hunting? That almost seems like calling yourself an expert pilot because you can turn on the autopilot.I'm not saying it wouldn't be fun, I'm just saying it probably would be best to keep this stuff on the range.


Mark

[onstep]

Over 400 yards and it's shooting. Under 300 is hunting. Nothing against you long range guys but thats the way I see it.

[Ryan Pultz]

I think this is why I posted the article. I would never take a shot at an animal at some of the distances in that article but I do feel like trask44 if you had the equipment and you know what you are doing with the wind distance and any other aspect that may affect your shot then go for it. I am more interested about the long range shooting for the fun part of it the accomplishment of hitting your target at 600+ yards and being able to do it successfully over and over has always been apealing to me. Trask44 I would love to come out your way some time and shoot with you to see how you are doing it and well just to gain knowledge. Thanks everyone for the comments it is all about learning as much as I can. rp

[Rank Amateur]

I have taken a few long pokes in my day. One antelope at over 500 yards, off hand, , dumb kid stuff and just got lucky. I shot another antelope at 400 yards sitting on my butt with the shooting sticks, dead on, one shot kill. Another 400 yard antelope shot, the lope stepped ahead just as the trigger broke over, ended up shot in the butt cheeks, , chased it for a mile until it ran head on into another hunter. His buck. Shot another antelope in Wyoming off hand at 300, one shot kill, sage was too high to sit. Shot another, at 270 yards in its bed, on my butt and shooting sticks. Longest shot on a bull was only around 200 yards, offhand, I had missed him sitting on my butt shooting off my knees, but I had misgaged the range and had a brain [petunias!] to boot and shot over.

Currently with the way I have been shooting yotes, I had better keep it around 100 yards.

It is interesting to note, the only animal that I have wounded at long range was that antelope that ended up another hunters dinner. The other animals that I have lost were close range shots with intervening obstacles. Of coarse the close range shots happen suddenly and a lot more often.

I used to spend a lot of time shooting long distance (up to 500 yards) and now that I don't practice as much, my shooting shows it. Practice is a big key, but bad things can happen at long range. If you can't hit a milk jug at the range you shoot, you probably shouldn't.

[baltz526]

to me a long range shot would be any shot, where i had to consider holdover. to shoot at any game animal at over 600yds is criminal.in my non legal opinion. there are just to many things getting in the way for a clean kill. to shoot very long range at nongame animals, is also not high on my list of things to do. targets, yes. ringing the gong at very long range is fun. animals are not targets, they are meat.

[High Country]

Making long range shot takes practice, I have no doubt that an elk can be killed at 1000yds with a good rifle and scope ,spotting combo, IF and I do mean If you make the shot and score a well placed round in the vitals, you have just pulled off one great hunting Accident. The odds even if you practice are not in your favor, If you misjudge yardage by 10yds you have a miss.If you misjudge the wind you have a miss or you have a gut shot or wounded animal. Now make the 1000yd trek and pick up a blood trail. Long range shots have their place , last resort on a wounded animal, range, and varmints. If I can't close the distance I won't shoot!

[weekender]

Over 400 yards and it's shooting. Under 300 is hunting. Nothing against you long range guys but thats the way I see it.

Would you be offended if I told you hunting with a rifle isn't hunting? If you want to hunt, you need to use a bow. No wait; a Recurve Bow. Scratch that, a knife on a stick. That's it. If you want to hunt then you have to use a knife on a stick.

I've never shot at game over 400 yards, but I would have to argue that its probably easier to get closer to them than it is to shoot them from 600 yards...

This reminds me of when I hear people say that fishing with bait isnt actually fishing and that if you want to fish you have to fly fish. yada yada ya.

If you harvest an animal with anything less than a truck, then it is hunting.

[traks44]

Would you be offended if I told you hunting with a rifle isn't hunting? If you want to hunt, you need to use a bow. No wait; a Recurve Bow. Scratch that, a knife on a stick. That's it. If you want to hunt then you have to use a knife on a stick.

I've never shot at game over 400 yards, but I would have to argue that its probably easier to get closer to them than it is to shoot them from 600 yards...

This reminds me of when I hear people say that fishing with bait isnt actually fishing and that if you want to fish you have to fly fish. yada yada ya.

If you harvest an animal with anything less than a truck, then it is hunting.

Very well put

[Bait O' Eggs]

DAB was talking about shooting 22's at 100 yards.

This weekend I took my new "mistress" out to the range to see how sexy she was. :shocked: After the initial break in period of cleaning the bore between each shot and adjusting the scope along the way to get sighted in I tried to group them up.

It was windy and it was raining, and it was down right miserable at Douglas Ridge on Saturday morning.

Not being the best bench rest shooter in the world, I was able to do OK, not what I was hoping for but not bad considering the weather and just an intial load to test. I still need to work up a load the gun likes, but it was nice to run my finger over the trigger, look in her eyes and see the crosshair, firmly put her bottom into my shoulder

Anyway, .... my buddy and his boy took out some new 17 hmr's to play with. At 100 yards they were shooting easily quarter sized groups. I was pretty impressed with what they were doing for a 3-9 scope. They shot at least 50 rounds at 200 yards and never poked a hole in the 8.5 x 11 inch sized targets. They were using a calibration on the scope to adjust to 200 yards when they sighted in at 100, they tried to hold high, tried adjusting the scope..... but no matter what they did, they couldnt poke a hole in the target at 200 yards. I think the wind/rain was getting the best of them.

I have no problem with stretching a barrel out if I have to, but I like to get close given a chance.

[onstep]

Wouldn't have a problem with that. I like the meat more than the challenge of hunting. If it was for the chase I'd take up a recurve. Incidently, where I hunt, Sled Springs, you rarely get a shot over 150 yards on public land.
If you guys think it's much easier to shoot 600 yards than stalk an animal. You all need to put down the crack pipe. Plug the numbers into the right ballistics program, understand drift, lase the target, watch the indicators, and pull the trigger. Modern ammo and firearms are fantastic for this type of shooting. In sixty rounds, 3 range days, out on the range you can make that shot all day long.

[adobe wall]

Wouldn't have a problem with that. I like the meat more than the challenge of hunting. If it was for the chase I'd take up a recurve. Incidently, where I hunt, Sled Springs, you rarely get a shot over 150 yards on public land.
If you guys think it's much easier to shoot 600 yards than stalk an animal. You all need to put down the crack pipe. Plug the numbers into the right ballistics program, understand drift, lase the target, watch the indicators, and pull the trigger. Modern ammo and firearms are fantastic for this type of shooting. In sixty rounds, 3 range days, out on the range you can make that shot all day long.

I'll grant you that the average hunter could use 60 shots and 3 days of range time. And yes, if their equipment is up to it, they probably can get dialed in to nail a dinner plate at 600 yards. That's at a range, and that shooter will be using sandbags or maybe a bipod.

Now that's about as far as I can agree with you.

Modern ballistic programs will get you fairly close, and laser rangefinders are hard to argue with. I've used programs to get on paper when going from 300 to 600 yards with a new rifle. Mind you, that "paper" was about the size of a car hood and the ballistic program certainly didn't put me within that magic 12" circle that we'd want to hit on a deer.

Now with respect to wind drift, ferget it. You won't learn wind drift in 60 shots. You can buy a Kestral meter and get a wind chart and that won't help, either. It might give you just enough confidence to try the shot...

After considerably more than 60 shots at 600 yards I figured I'd buy my way into success and bought a wind chart precisely calibrated for the bullets I was shooting. Well, gee, I compared the flags to the diagram on my chart, applied the recommended windage to the rifle, and let loose. I was on paper but out in the 7 ring, that's a couple of feet off from where I needed to be. Hmmm... I must be guessing the wind wrong.

Next was a Kestrel meter to go with the wind chart (yer gonna have to make a chart as you probably don't want to pull up ballistics software on your laptop whilst looking at a nice deer at 562 yards across a canyon). So I hold up the Kestrel, and son-of-a-gun if the wind doesn't always seem to blow at exactly the 12 mph I need for my chart to be accurate. It's blowing around 12 most of the time, with gusts to 16 and occasionally dropping to 5 mph. On top of that (since I'm at the range) the 6 wind flags are blowing 4 different directions.

All of this is much more common that not, and is why shooting at long range is kinda tough.

So now, if yer gonna blast a deer at long range, yer gonna have to buy yer way into making the shot. Yer gonna need a cartridge that shoots a heavy but "slippery" bullet mighty fast. Throw a thurty cal, 210 grain berger out of a .300 Remington ultra mag pushed by a whole lot of surplus .50 bmg powder and you'll beat the wind to death. And yer wallet, cause that rig is gonna last about 700 rounds. And yer shoulder, cause yer essentially launching a quarter-pounder to go at that critter.

But enough of all that, you've spent the money to buy a rig that will defeat the wind and have lugged it to the side of this canyon, on the other side of which is a nice deer.

You break out the laser rangefinder and the deer is 562 yards away, which doesn't fit really neatly into your 600 yard "hard" zero which you have actually fired. You're going to have to check your ballistics tables and guesstimate it, and you really don't have a whole heck of a lot of guessing room on a live critter.

You get out your backpack for a rest, put the rifle on it and bed it in good, and you are rock steady.

Just as you shoot, the deer takes a half step and you gut shoot it.

You tilt the odds of defeating wind, uncertain distance, and uncertain animal movement by shooting at shorter distances. Never mind the fact that it's darn tough to find a truly accurate big game bullet that performs well at very long range and gives good terminal performance.

I'll call it hunting no matter how far you shoot, as you had to hunt to get there. I don't care what you shoot at the critter with, either. It really is all hunting and I really do get turned off with primitive weapons snobs. However, we're still talking about a big game animal, killing it cleanly, and taking only a shot that you're absolutely certain you can make. Every time, even while laying on that rock that's diggin' in yer ribs.

About the only folks that consistently can nail that magical dinner plate, at not so neat ranges, are die-hard varmint shooters. Do enough of that and you'll learn all about wind, light, and bullet drop at ranges that don't fit neatly onto a chart.

just my .02
aw

[clearjb]

The long range guys always get the bad wrap. Lost animals a bunch of guys with chips on there shoulders. Call it what you would like but its no different than a guy who wounnds a bull at say 60 yards running through the trees. One shot in the and your off to the races. Be it brush hunters or long range guys there are bad shots made every year probally more that are within 150 yards but the guys that miss or wound at 600 yards seem to be held at a higher standard

[D3smartie]

ooooh fun... here we go again...

[clearjb]

sorry to post twice ina row but adobe wall I hope you dont take this the wrong way but it sounds like long range hunting just isnt your thing.

[gottafish]

Howard Hill shot a elk at 250 yards with a 110 Lb long bow.and killed it. with one shot. You wont catch me shooting a rifle at a elk at that range. but then again I miss at 100 yards. LOL

[Weatherby]

If you are taking shots past four hundred yards your not hunting. Your shooting. If the animal takes one step and your shot is right on, its a gut shot. The stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Long shots are for targets. I hunt varmits with some pretty fancy gear, Ill tell you the wind is no friend to the 1000 yard elk shooter. If you think your that good I'll bet money your not. If you shooting that far you have to lay prone and thats not very likly in elk country, also not many rifles have the punch to take a elk at that range if you did hit it right. I have a 378 Weatherby, about the best long range elk rifles around, try shooting it prone,if you don't break your coller bone in recoil. Fact if you miss judge the distance by 25 yards you will miss with a perfict sight alingment. The bullet is coming down at such a great angle. So how sportsman is 1000 yard shooting of live game? Shooting long distances is a blast but I would not shoot at big game.

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum.

[Weatherby]

[traks44]

If you are taking shots past four hundred yards your not hunting. Your shooting. If the animal takes one step and your shot is right on, its a gut shot. The stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Long shots are for targets. I hunt varmits with some pretty fancy gear, Ill tell you the wind is no friend to the 1000 yard elk shooter. If you think your that good I'll bet money your not. If you shooting that far you have to lay prone and thats not very likly in elk country, also not many rifles have the punch to take a elk at that range if you did hit it right. I have a 378 Weatherby, about the best long range elk rifles around, try shooting it prone,if you don't break your coller bone in recoil. Fact if you miss judge the distance by 25 yards you will miss with a perfict sight alingment. The bullet is coming down at such a great angle. So how sportsman is 1000 yard shooting of live game? Shooting long distances is a blast but I would not shoot at big game.

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum.

The .378 is prolly one of ther worst calibers for long range work, poor bullet choice and bullet diameter along with a poor B.C. will keep this gun from ever becomming a long range rifle. I dont want anywone who owns a .375 or .378 weatherby to get the wrong idea.

Some of you are very correct that it doesnt take long to get out to 600 yards on a paper plate. Its all about SITUATION, I would never pull the trigger on a bull at 700 yards if everything wasnt perfect. Some of you guys insist we long range junkies just start throwing lead reguardless of situation, that is plain false. Beyond 400 yards isnt hunting huh?....lol.....whatever you say.......

[Rank Amateur]

I'm thinking some of these guys haven't had the pleasure of hunting antelope in open flat country. Hike your butt off all day and then set up on a nice buck at 400 yards, which you will not close the distance on unless you are the invisible man. Great stalk, and great shot, nothing wrong with that.

I agree with closing the distance when you can, but we have modern firearms for a reason, they shoot further than a bow, further than a muzzle loader, but not as far as a Howlitzer.

[Weatherby]

Our group shot 42 antelope one year. I know about long range shooting. If you don't think the 378 Weatherby is a long range rifle for elk whats your choice Traks44? The 300 grain boattail at 2950 fps. The bullet drop is not the concern because we are taking about a known distance so we have to have the correct hold over. What shoots that good and has the punch when it gets there?

[Quaka Wacka]

The long range guys always get the bad wrap. Lost animals a bunch of guys with chips on there shoulders. Call it what you would like but its no different than a guy who wounnds a bull at say 60 yards running through the trees. One shot in the and your off to the races. Be it brush hunters or long range guys there are bad shots made every year probally more that are within 150 yards but the guys that miss or wound at 600 yards seem to be held at a higher standard

I know and have seen plenty of guys in the field who have no bussiness shooting past 100 yards. To say there is a certain ethical cutoff as to what range is hunting vs. shooting is absurd. Or to say all these things that can go wrong at long range, like the animal taking a step. Most of those things can happen at 100 yards. I'm with Traks on this one 100%. I shoot a lot in the summer. Most of it in the field, off a bipod or my back pack. I wont shoot long range unless the conditions are just right. No wind, broadside stationary animal and I have plenty of time to set up to shoot prone. I set limits for myself during the summer/fall while I'm practicing depending on how well I'm consistantly shooting, and stick to them when hunting. I think that should be the ethical cutoff. A range and conditions you have shot in before. Everbodys max ethical range is going to be different depending on their gun, expirience, and how much time they spend practicing.I would also not agree that the .378 Weatherby is the ultimate long range gun but that part is just my opinion.

And to those of you that say its easy and not hunting, I'd guess that you've never tried it before. It took alot more practice than I thought to consistantly get good groups at long range.

[Rank Amateur]

That's not a group, that's a gang! What were you guys doing, culling in CWD zone?

Yeah, I know, you were in Wyoming like two of my buddies and I, we brought home 12, and they all tasted like liver.

[traks44]

Our group shot 42 antelope one year. I know about long range shooting. If you don't think the 378 Weatherby is a long range rifle for elk whats your choice Traks44? The 300 grain boattail at 2950 fps. The bullet drop is not the concern because we are taking about a known distance so we have to have the correct hold over. What shoots that good and has the punch when it gets there?

what brand of 300 grain bullet?

you said the .378 Weatherby was one of the BEST, and that is not true and I dont want people to get the wrong idea, granted it doesnt take much velocity from a .300 grain bullet to kill an antelope

Calibers such as, .300 RUM, 30-378 Wthby, .338 edge, .338RUM, .338 lapua, 7mm STW, 7mm RUM, .338 edge The whole family of Allen magnums, and a dozen or so others. Any gun will shoot 1000 yards just a matter of velocity, power, and bullet features that allow it to be a "SUFFECIENT" killer at such distances the .378 weatherby might work, but is far FAR away from being the best.

In your first post you said 400 yards wasnt hunting and bad talked all those who shot long range hunting, then you procedded to brag about shoot 42 antelope at "long range"? Leaves me a little confused??


I dont know why I do this to myself....

[Weatherby]

I never said it was one of the best. I just said it was a long range "hunting" rifle. Not a 1000 yard bench gun. Its a far better long range rifle than you said .....you stated it was one of the worst! Now thats funny! Its light for its power and out to lets say 500 yards it still has over 3000 foot pounds of smack. Is that a weak close range rifle? The 7's 30's 338's sure have a place and would be of my first choice for shots past 500 yards yet I would get closer. I have shot 14 elk and the longest shot was 120 yards and the rest under 80 yards. What rifle do you shoot at that range? In regards to the antelope my 6 where all shot with a sako 6mm with 100 boattail 3150 fps.

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum

[skein]

:lurk:

Skein

[BrianMaguire]

Adobe, you're right on the money.

I've found that either you find long-range shooting addicting, or you soon grow frustrated and give it up, with about 90% of us in the latter category.

Actually 90% have not even shot at a range @ 300 yards to even know what it is like. Most hunters assume that they shoot sub MOA @ 100 but are really probably shooting factory ammo out of a gun that is not tuned to its load and are shooting 2+ MOA @100. This equates to so much variation at 300 that they have no business shooting 200 much less 300 and beyond. 600 yards is a dang long way, its so far that if you "think" you can shoot it you can't. You have to KNOW you can shoot it to shoot, and that is such a small percentage of people.

To give an example. i just spent the better part of 9 months tuning my rifles to shoot .8 MOA (5 shot 100 groups). and I am still 4"+ groups at 300. Now Elk have a very large section, above the lungs, just below the spine that you can pass a baseball bat through and all you will get is a wounded animal. So what business do I have shooting at 300 with a gun that shoots very well on a perfect no wind day. Give me a little breeze and I shot his front leg off.

[Flying Roast Beef]

That crack about being able to see it with a naked eye? I dissagree with that. If you know what you are looking at you can see an elk from a mile away.

[traks44]

That crack about being able to see it with a naked eye? I dissagree with that. If you know what you are looking at you can see an elk from a mile away.

It was a joke

[onstep]

You read that article and look at those pictures and it solidifies my argument. Over 400 is shooting and under 400 is hunting. Let's see a 20lb to 30lb rifle (I don't know a man who could carry that beast to the bottom and back up and still make a shot in short order), portable bench rest, and a wind meter. It sounds like the last time we shot at the 600 yard line at tri county.
Brian,
What you pointed out is 100% spot on. When was the last time you went to the 200/300 yard range and saw half the benchs filled? Maybe 3 weeks before the season. I was out there about month ago on a Saturday and think 4 benches were being used. Half of those guys were getting ready for match they weren't even hunters!

[Rank Amateur]

I spent all night at work thinking about this question. I think it is a little obnoxious to claim that people are not hunting when they take a long range shot. There is nothing in the definition of hunting from which to draw that conclusion.

We can all agree, that long range shots will have a higher chance of wounding game, yet capable "hunters" can and do make long shots all the time. The key word here is "capable". My thoughts on the average joe hunter, he probably shouldn't shoot any further than 100 yards offhand and 200 with a rest. But that is just my opinion.

If your message is that we should all take only absolutely sure shots, that is fine, but then I expect you to take only stationary broadside, under 100 yard, no brush, with a rest shots. Nothing is guaranteed in the hunting world, ask the bow hunters, it's almost like Murphy's law out there, the same things happen to rifle hunters. So maybe your message is to only take shots with an acceptable chance of success. First that would mean a weapon capable of taking the animal at the range the shot is being made and the hunter having the skill to make the shot. If that is the criteria, then how can we draw a line and say if you shoot further than this, you are not hunting, the line will change with each weapon and hunter?

I find it ironic that we call foul on long shots, yet are willing to take a running shot (how do you practice that) or pack a cannon just in case you see the bull of your dreams and only have a Texas heart shot.

There are times that closing the distance is not possible, for those who have the skill they have an added option. If you don't spend the time to hone that skill (some will never have it) then keep your shots close.

[D3smartie]

There are few situations where you cannot close the distance to a higher probability shot. I am with onstep.

[Rank Amateur]

In most cases you are right and that is always the preferrable route. But there are enough cases where getting close is not an option that it makes being proficient with ones weapon at longer range beneficial. Antelope is the one animal where this happens alot. You just don't close the distance out in the open flats unless you have a buddy and a cow outfit.

[D3smartie]

yes but how often are you hunting elk or deer in wide open antelope country?
i think when people start shooting elk or deer at long ranges like 300-400+ its just because they are either horn hungry on a big animal, last day of their season and actually need the meat, or they are just plain too lazy to try to get closer.

[D3smartie]

yes but how often are you hunting elk or deer in wide open antelope country?
i think when people start shooting elk or deer at long ranges like 300-400+ its just because they are either horn hungry on a big animal, last day of their season and actually need the meat, or they are just plain too lazy to try to get closer. I have a big issue with the last group.
Getting close is the best part of the hunt.

[Rank Amateur]

Most elk and deer country lends itself to getting close, but not always. A friend of mine took a real nice bull a number of years ago at around 400 yards. He was actually shooting across a canyon. There was a herd with a bull bugling, he saw a spike, but figured that wasn't what was bugling and he waited. He had a good rock and his pack for a rest. Soon he saw a big horn sticking out of the timber, soon the body followed. He made a one shot kill with a 30-06 shooting a 180 grain bullet.

He had the option to cross the canyon and get closer, yet that may have not been the wisest move. This was very steep terrain and a lot of thickets. With all those eyes and an updraft thermal, he could have blown the herd. He could have passed, but having spent considerable time practicing at long range including 400 yards, he was confident of his gun and his skills.

As far as the lazy part, we were down in the canyon most people don't want to go into. We spent the next three days packing out both of our 6 pts (I shot a bull about an hour before he got his in the bottom of the canyon) on our backs and enjoyed every minute of it.

[Bait O' Eggs]

My gun is better than your gun
I can shoot farther than you
I am a hunter your not



Are the posters on this page like a bunch of turkeys right now with their chest puffed out, strutting around or what?

:lurk: :lurk: :lurk: :lurk: :lurk:

:lurk: :lurk: :lurk: :lurk: :lurk:

In all seriousness, I doubt there is more than one person on this board who has killed elk farther than I have, with a single shot. Shooting offhand with no rest, after running over a mile thru coast brush with less than 30 seconds of breathe recovery time. Does it make me a better shot than you, or a better hunter, I doubt it. But I am living proof it can be done. Over 750 yards (confirmed) :tongue: Havent tried it since, and doubt I ever will. There was no getting closer, there was no other option to kill this bull. If it wasnt hunting in your book, you need to get a new book

[D3smartie]

what did you screw up so that you had to run a mile to get a 750 yard shot?

[Bait O' Eggs]

I guess it depends on where you spot them from, as to where you start the stalk. I glass ahead of myself a tad bit

[ehunter]

My only question is how many guys make a honest recouvery at those distances if they don't see a animal fall .

Some of these distances are getting out of normal bino range and I wonder what happens when a elk or deer doesn't flinch or indicate a hit. There are also cases of other animals hit that were not the indicated target. I personaly can't shoot that far, heck I have trouble seeing that far...

[Weatherby]

Thats what we call a HUNTING ACCIDENT!!!!!!

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum

[Weatherby]

So you guys shooting 1000 yards at elk. You must have your hunting rifles sighted in, so what do you do when you see a bull at 50 yards? Aim 14 feet low or back up 950 yards? Just wondering? Its your story "so tell it like you want"

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum

[Weatherby]

You can't "buy" common sense!

[clearjb]

I have read alot of remarks that bash the long range hunter. Some have merit some dont. The above remark about if we have our rifles sighted in at 1000 yards is way off the mark. If you believe that this is how you shoot long range then you need to do a little research before you jump right in and give your 2 cents. Most all the guys I hunt with have taken shots and hit animals at longer ranges than most. We also do alot of shooting. I personally burn a barrel up in about a year and a half. I am not bragging I just do alot of shooting. I prefer taking elk within 100 yards but it is not always possible where I hunt. We have all backed off of animals that either the wind wasn't right or the animal just wouldn't turn for that perfect shot. To jump on a guy for taking a long shot when he has thousands of rounds down the barrel at ranges that most people would not take is just wrong. I said it in a earlier post that I would bet most animals are lost or wounded at the 75 yard running shot through the trees than out past 400 yards.

[traks44]

So you guys shooting 1000 yards at elk. You must have your hunting rifles sighted in, so what do you do when you see a bull at 50 yards? Aim 14 feet low or back up 950 yards? Just wondering? Its your story "so tell it like you want"

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum

I hope you are kidding with this statement?

They are called scope turrets, you dial in the MOA you need to get to a certain yardage for the given conditons. you site a gun in for 100 yards or even 2 or 300 hundred if you like. Then produce a dope chart or have a palm pilot and plug in your info and then dial it into your scope. Most scopes have 1/4 inch clicks or 1/8 clicks. usually "benchrest" style scopes have the 1/8. Alot of scopes have a "rangeing recticle". In this case you hold for the given distance based on your lines in your scope. Both of these methods are "proven killers" and work very well. I am sorry but the statement you made above was very juvenile, uneducated and just plain false. :whazzup:

Long range shooting IS a science, and we should be glad it is. If it wasnt a science then animals would be wounded on regular basis and Long range shooting would be what many of you make it out to be....MEDIOCRE!!, I am not claiming to be a great shooter, nor a great hunter but I am addicted to shooting things at a known long distance. Contrary to what some of you think there are dozens of situations where it is useful. Many of the game I have harvested was spotted a very long ways off, sometimes you can close the distance, sometimes not. Its just the nature of the beast over here. Last thing, we are not talking about shooting an elk at 1000 yards on here. I dont think I could honestly say I have had an elk at 1000 yards and couldnt close the distance. Only then would I be concerned with how good of a hunter I was if thats all the closer I could get, but with the right equipment nd skills I may try it. I guess we will find out........

Like beating a dead horse, I am done for now....

[Rank Amateur]

That's a great point ehunter, the thing will long range shooting is that you have to make the committment before you pull that trigger that you are going to follow through. It could be the area is wide open and you could tell if the animal is hit or not, but that is not an guarantee. If you can not get to the spot the animal is at after you pull the trigger, then don't pull it.

Beside making the shot, a person has to remember to pick out landmarks so he can determine the location of the animal when you get over there, this is a mistake many make.

I'm not talking about 1,000 yard shots on here either, I don't have the equipment or the skill for that type of shooting. Yet there are people who do. Not sure I'm thrilled with driving down a road and then shooting across the canyon, but if would be a different form of hunting, just as long as people are responsible with it.

With my equipment and skill (seems to be deminishing) 500 yards is it. I had that oppurtunity on a bull a few years back, but the conditions were just not right, heavy dizzle ect, did the B.O.E. scramble which included walking over a log over a flooded creek (I would have never been seen again if I fell off) and busted through a soaking reprod patch. The bull walked right out in front of me. Darn near didn't get that bull because of fogging glasses, but closed the deal.

[Weatherby]

I'm not kidding about how you must aim. I do like how you state your not a great shooter, or a great hunter, you just like to shoot long range a known distances. Give me a call next time you take a shot at 1000 yards at a elk, we can all come and hang flags down range for you so you know the wind at all ranges. It least I know who I'm talking to. "You can't buy common sense."

I hate to packum so I dropum where I shootum

[baltz526]

I'm not kidding about how you must aim. I do like how you state your not a great shooter, or a great hunter, you just like to shoot long range a known distances. Give me a call next time you take a shot at 1000 yards at a elk, we can all come and hang flags down range for you so you know the wind at all ranges. It least I know who I'm talking to. "You can't buy common sense."

if you have some good input, just jump right in. the above was not good input, just keyboard dribble. kind of like old guys get after taking a leak. them little wet spots by your fly.

[Bait O' Eggs]

Weatherby, you have been on this board all of a month and already your displaying all the traits of those who dont last long around here, usually not your choice when you get shown the door.

Your condesending comments about not being able to buy common sense is rude, apparently your pocketbook was a little short when it came to buying manners.

We all do things different, we hunt with different calibers, we hunt different terrain, .....etc... just because somebody doesnt do things the way you do them, doesnt make it wrong.

[GSD]

[Ryan Pultz]

Weatherby, you have been on this board all of a month and already your displaying all the traits of those who dont last long around here, usually not your choice when you get shown the door.

Your condesending comments about not being able to buy common sense is rude, apparently your pocketbook was a little short when it came to buying manners.

We all do things different, we hunt with different calibers, we hunt different terrain, .....etc... just because somebody doesnt do things the way you do them, doesnt make it wrong.

thank you that needed to be said. rp